Spademan 94 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 What's the name of that fallacy where you can't tell if someone is trolling because only someone so incredibly wrong could be supporting such a wrong tenet? It's really hard to describe that fallacy without using some synonym for stupid. Hmm. Not sure if you're going for a fallacy or you mean Poe's Law: Without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism or a parody of extremism. Or, to put it another way: on the internet, stupid people are so stupid that it impossible for someone to pretend to be so stupid that it is clearly more stupid than stupid people could be - so one cannot discern true stupid from troll stupid reliably. You could be talking about an actual fallacy like argument from incredulity: I can't imagine x can be true, therefore x isn't true. In this case me saying that I can't imagine anyone could possibly believe what dude said, therefore dude must be a troll. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 loved john oliver going HAM on old donny drumpf. this madness needs to end. Link to post Share on other sites
JubilantLankyLad 1,957 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Poe's Law is stupid. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 your mom is stupid 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 his mom is a poe. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 The rise of American authoritarianism A niche group of political scientists may have uncovered what's driving Donald Trump's ascent. What they found has implications that go well beyond 2016. Link to post Share on other sites
Spademan 94 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 The rise of American authoritarianism A niche group of political scientists may have uncovered what's driving Donald Trump's ascent. What they found has implications that go well beyond 2016. Hmm, I was going to smugly link to a post I've made long ago about "The Authoritarians" by Robert Altemeyer: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ , telling everyone that they should read the free copy they can find online if they want to understand how modern Republicans can possibly believe the shit their leadership says - and what kind of people the leaders are who rise in this type of system... Only to discover upon search that, somehow, I have apparently *never* discussed it here, despite having mentioned it every place I've ever discussed politics even in passing. I've discussed authoritarians before, and was using the term as explained in that book, but never mentioned the book itself. So, smugness is unwarranted. However, I'll still point out that I've talked about what those links have "discovered" for a long time now, and Altemeyer's book is like a decade old and discusses all of this in detail, and is based upon his academic research. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Your form of smug self-aggrandizement is exactly the kind of thing America is looking for in a leader, Spademan. Have you considered running for office? Link to post Share on other sites
Spademan 94 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Your form of smug self-aggrandizement is exactly the kind of thing America is looking for in a leader, Spademan. Have you considered running for office? I have. And of course, *puffs out his chest, sets his jaw, steels his eyes, accentuates his manly, seriously like, model-level, good looks*, I would not only make America great again, but greater than it has ever been, or ever could be otherwise. I decided not to, unfortunately for everyone, because **** people. They are generally stupid animals and I instead will just sit back and watch the world burn. ---- Back to the authoritarians thing, that Altemyer book actually revealed something specific that I had had real trouble with prior to reading it. One thing unmentioned in the article Bob linked had to do with logic quirks found in high-authoritarians. Prior to looking at Altemeyer's research I had thought that a lot of the religious/republican types were more dishonest than they actually are. I thought this because of how they would contradict themselves while they were arguing with me - sometimes literally in the same sentence. I couldn't fathom - I genuinely didn't understand that it was possible to hold two views that were mutually exclusive - logically contradictory - at the same time. Not necessarily at all, like, when they are discussed or thought about on different days, in different conversations, in different contexts. I knew that people who weren't very bright could consistently do that. But, when contradictory claims presented themselves in the same conversation, sometimes one sentence after another or *even in the same sentence*, I thought it was a clear indication of deceit. That is, I assumed that they must be bullshitting on purpose. But no, it turns out a non-insignificant number of people are literally incapable of grasping contradiction that disproves something they "believe". Altemeyer described it like a file cabinet. They pull out one thought that supports their belief, put that file away and pull out another that supports their belief - and the two files never co-mingle. So, it doesn't matter if the first file says "all swans are white" and the second file says "there are many black swans" - if both files end with "so it's obvious that god is good" both files can remain, no problem. They just are accessed one at a time. I'm rambling. But the book is interesting. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mrfritz 885 Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 looks like it's going to be a good night for team hot take. that pdf is a good read so far (essay should read it before he votes Trump). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 that pdf is a good read so far (essay should read it before he votes Trump). Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 So it occurred to me tonight that the GOP Money men, Koch et al, are just going to cut their losses in the General election and pour that money into the local elections. Yay democracy. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Patrick Chovanec @prchovanec 16m16 minutes ago And you may ask yourself Am I right? Am I wrong? And you may say to yourself My God! What have I done?! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Andrew Kirell @AndrewKirell 13m13 minutes ago Let's play a game: A dog or Chris Christie standing behind Trump for the last 30 minutes? Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Chris Christie looking like Bobby Bacala during Junior's meet with tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Chris Christie looking like Bobby Bacala during Junior's meet with tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Wow. People are making these things fast. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 the longer both cruz and rubio stay in it, the better it is for trump. If cruz didn't win texas and got knocked out.. the opposition could unite behind rubio. But now Cruz can justify staying in for at least a month more. That's good for trump, long term. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 So it occurred to me tonight that the GOP Money men, Koch et al, are just going to cut their losses in the General election and pour that money into the local elections. Yay democracy. Now, if bernie somehow pulls off a miracle and comes back and gets the nom (and by Miracle, I mean HRC gets indicted), then I think the money men will double down on Trump. Trump might be insane, and they might not be able to control him, but at least he's not a socialist. I think Bernie would terrify them into backing trump hard. Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Is Socialism really that bad, or is it just a bunch of conservatives getting their panties in a bunch? Link to post Share on other sites
Spademan 94 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Andrew Kirell @AndrewKirell 13m13 minutes ago Let's play a game: A dog or Chris Christie standing behind Trump for the last 30 minutes? During the first 20 seconds of that speech I said if I had any editing skill I would make a gif of that dog and Christie side-by-side. It was so god damn evocative of that meme. Is Socialism really that bad, or is it just a bunch of conservatives getting their panties in a bunch? Not only is democratic socialism "not that bad", but the countries that do it well are demonstrably and unequivocally the best countries on earth in terms of standard of living, health care, and education. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Not only is democratic socialism "not that bad", but the countries that do it well are demonstrably and unequivocally the best countries on earth in terms of standard of living, health care, and education. I've heard that a lot from Bernie supporters. I don't know all of the countries that do it, but I assume they all have smaller populations than the US. If so, could that play a factor? If my questions sound stupidly ignorant, it's because I am. Especially when it comes to politics. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I've heard that a lot from Bernie supporters. I don't know all of the countries that do it, but I assume they all have smaller populations than the US. If so, could that play a factor? If my questions sound stupidly ignorant, it's because I am. Especially when it comes to politics. Reading up on the Nordic model is a pretty good place to start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model Link to post Share on other sites
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