Off Off Topic: Cool Toronto People's Thread

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I traded 3 first round picks and all you guys wanna talk about is a damn parking space. F u guys

 

maybe if you traded a pick that was in the top 15, I would care.

then again, happy you fleeced them out of my conference.

[Babying 613]

I traded 3 first round picks and all you guys wanna talk about is a damn parking space. I love you guys

[bigguyren68 155]

maybe if you traded a pick that was in the top 15, I would care.

 

Toronto(Associated Press): Breaking news. Hockey guru MapleLeafspoker admits that Pkdealers are a top 5 team.

 

Thanks Arp, you just made my day.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Toronto(Associated Press): Breaking news. Hockey guru MapleLeafspoker admits that Pkdealers are a top 5 team.

 

Thanks Arp, you just made my day.

 

stats don't lie!

[GWCGWC 83]

I traded 3 first round picks and all you guys wanna talk about is a damn parking space. F u guys

 

I read the last 3 pages looking to read thoughts about the firing and thinking I was in the Leafs thread. F my literacy. bah

[Zach6668 513]

I hope John Tory's ticket writing and towing initiative bites him in the butt..I hope all the ticket writers fall on a patch of ice and need a car to get home...But they have to take the ttc instead..

 

Bunch of crooks..

 

Zach no need to response with the high brow stupid argument that traffic is thwarted and laws should be obeyed...BLA BLA..

 

I miss Ford

 

How is obeying laws and towing selfish idiots high brow?

 

There is a difference in ticketing people who park in a handicap, or non stopping zone..

 

No need to ticket me because my meter expired 4 minutes ago..

 

100s of thousands is a bit of a stretch

 

Nobody is ticketing on newly expired meters. I mentioned it earlier, but it's important to re-state. There IS a grace period for meters, so outside of that, I really don't know what else you could possibly want.

 

I would say 100,000+ is probably pretty close. 100s of thousands, even.

 

According to the Transportation Tomorrow Survey, 326k trips were taken in the Old City of Toronto between 6 and 9 (typically home to work), 45% were either as the driver or the passenger in a private automobile, so, just shy of 150k trips into the city. It's unclear whether that's just from within the Old City of Toronto, or includes trips from the burbs, etc, so it could be even more. And all of those people have to leave at the end of their work day, so yeah... the ******* blocking half of the road (1 out of 2 travel lanes in a given direction) is holding up, probably 100k+ people. One delay can have a crazy ripple effect across the entire street network.

 

So, what Tory's plan is, is to eliminate the practice of skirting the traffic/parking laws because of how unlikely it is you'll get ticketed or towed. I mean, think about it. You run in to get a coffee, 5 minutes, at the most, what are the odds you get a ticket... pretty slim, usually, so the disincentive isn't there for douchebags and assholes who consider themselves more important than the rest of the citizens in this city.

 

The thing is, this helps, but it won't cure any congestion issues. It's certainly a positive that it's being done, because it's ridiculous to allow it (tacitly by not ticketing frequently enough).

 

I am against parking fines..Not running red lights and speeding....

 

Parking fines ARE a cash grab...Simple as that...

 

So, what other highly valuable goods and services do you think that you are entitled to for free for no particular reason?

 

I have been issued 100s of dollars in fines in my life..NEVER have i received a courtesy envelope..NEVER once

 

You should learn how to pay for parking and avoid breaking the law.

 

I'm not sure of the frequency of the courtesy envelopes, but I'm pretty sure it's for first time offenders, so if your car has been ticketed before, you're probably SOL and probably deserve a fine anyways.

 

Photo radar is a cash grab. There's a reason that police don't ticket when you're going 110 on the 401, mainly because it's safe under most conditions. if they would set the photo radar threshold at a high enough amount and let people know clearly that it's being used in an area that might be different.

 

Red light cameras that are clearly marked I like as they act as a deterrent which photo radar doesn't.

 

I'm not sure about it as a highway application, but in an urban setting, I think it's appropriate. Considering speed is such a huge factor in pedestrian and cyclist deaths, in areas where they mix, speeding laws should be enforced by any means necessary, IMO.

 

Public outreach/advertisement/notifications, etc are certainly a necessity for things like this. Like they did with the parking situation, they did a few months of issuing warnings before they started towing and ticketing at high volumes this week. I imagine they would do the same if a new network of speed/red light cams or whatever came into effect. Maybe a month of notices in lieu of fines and an awareness campaign or something.... even though it's completely bonkers to let people off after being caught breaking the law simply because technology has afforded you a new method to catch scofflaws.

 

I have no problem with parking tickets. I don't park illegally, and if I did, I would be really pissed to get a ticket, but consider that the cost of doing business.

 

I despise people who park illegally in heavy traffic areas, with no consideration for others. I am all for ticketing and towing of these people.

 

Yes.

 

Here's the thing though Serge. Parking fines are the only way to make people pay when they're supposed to. There has to be some stick or threat to make people pay the fee to park and there is always a cost to parking even when it's free to the person parking their car, it's just that some places like malls and the merchants in them pay the cost.

 

And all of that cost of "free" parking is filtered down to the consumer, after all. Most parking codes dictate that there need to be enough parking spaces for the busiest rush days. That means, a suburban mall needs to be able to accommodate expected parking demand on boxing day or black Friday, or whatever the busiest day of the year is. Meanwhile, that excess parking sits vacant the rest of the year, creating no revenue for the city or value for the community.

 

Here is a novel idea...I know its archaic and against everything that the tree huggers believe in..

 

BUT try a little bit to accomodate cars in the downtown core, instead of every legislation going against cars...

 

How about more parking spots...

 

More available parking would just create more demand for road space, which, as you can imagine, creates more congestion.

 

I would imagine there's probably too much parking downtown to begin with. Like I said, over 38k off-road spaces operated by the TPA (most downtown), plus dozens and dozens of private lots. If you want to lessen road congestion, having fewer parking spaces would be a big help. Or not even necessarily fewer, but having properly priced parking spaces. Priced at the right price as to discourage drivers.

 

It should be noted here that the Toronto Parking Authority actually has a policy that they must price their parking at rates lower than private lots in the area, fwiw. But we still, at the same time, adjust our rates to match demand. Every year there's a rate review, both on- and off-street.

 

Adding supply seems like an easy solution, but the costs are extraordinarily high (think up to $100,000 per parking spot (!) in an underground garage). And then there's the geometry issue we've already talked about (and Bob mentions somewhere), where the physical space required by cars, both when they're being stored and when they're in motion is just simply not available.

[Zach6668 513]

http://www.torontosu...se-as-cash-grab

 

Good lord. Rob Ford doesn't understand the first thing about ... well, anything in that piece. He's an idiot, pure and simple, and he's flat out wrong.

 

the natural flow of traffic and what 400 series highways are designed for is much much higher than 100 usually.

 

One issue with photo radar is a bit of a boring legal one but you're ticketing the car owner and not the driver so you aren't punishing the person who is driving necessarily. It's why I have no problem with manned radar with officers using their discretion on who to pull over and ticket.

 

That's a weird thing. The "design speed" of roads is always way higher than the speed limit... which is usually stupid. For a freeway, whatever, but it's done often, especially in the suburbs where the space allows wide streets, wide lanes, sweeping curves, large setbacks on either side of the road to increase the driver's view cone, etc. A street with a posted limit of 50 km/h is usually engineered for 70 km/h, thereabouts. There has been a large correction to this recently. The idea of traffic calming - that is, re-engineering streets back down to a safer design speed, and concepts like complete streets, etc. People will generally drive as fast as they feel safe. They usually don't regard the safety of other road users, that is, they subconsciously underestimate the risk that their speed plays in potential incidents, and the movement is about making drivers feel less safe, so that they'll slow down to a more reasonable speed. That means narrower lanes, usually on-street parking, curb bump-outs, etc. Things that keep drivers alert and focused, rather than relaxed doing 65 in a 50 on a road designed for 70.

 

As someone who drives a car to the downtown core on about 99% of his visits, I am all for ticketing and towing the cars I see along the sides of the roads that should not be there.

When I used to work downtown (long long time ago), it was obvious that many times the congestion was made significantly worse by these people and their lack of consideration.

 

Nothing upsets me more than people who think they have a special right to act as they wish, and not give a rats ass about other people.

How annoying is it to have to merge 2 lanes into one because some idiot just needed to stop directly in front of the coffee shop, or whatever? It's absurdly ignorant and selfish. It should be punished more harshly than it was before. There's simply no reason for it.

 

Are you willing the pay the true cost for those parking spots ?

 

They can't be on the street because there's no room and additional ones will only slow down traffic.

 

There's no empty land so there can't be any new surface lots.

 

Which means they need to be underground lots that are built along with new developments. That's already happening but that's expensive.

 

This is a smart post. The "true cost" of driving would be a complete shock to most drivers. Drivers have never paid the true costs associated with driving in this country. It's not their fault, it's the system, but the system is broken, and it will be a shock to motorists if there's ever the will to fix it. Parking is already starting to bounce back to real market prices in some major cities, but even that still ignores the absurd amount of externalities created by drivers in urban settings. Those are air pollution, noise pollution, additional health care costs, costs of wasted time and productivity due to congestion, extra costs of goods movements, etc. Those are costs borne by society that are difficult, or even impossible, to really attribute to specific drivers. They are trying, however. In Germany, somebody went and figured out exactly how much these externalities actually cost, as well as road maintenance and construction, and rolled them into a gas tax, which acts as a true user fee, meaning the user pays the actual costs (or a reasonable estimation).

 

I love the Green P lots...

 

Yay!

 

Million eh?

 

Good luck trying to park anywhere and pay less than $20 during the day

 

You can park under Nathan Phillips Square for $15 from 7 am to 6 pm. $19 at Yonge-Dundas Square. $10 at the foot of Church St. (at the Esplanade).

 

This isn't very hard. I looked at 4 downtown Green P lots to find those three that were sub $20. The other one I looked at was exactly $20.

 

If you want there to always be an empty spot in any given lot we would have to come up with some sort of pricing model based on how busy a lot is. Empty lot means cheap parking. Lot almost full means playing just outside of ACC on a Leaf Playoff game night prices.

 

Dynamic pricing systems are being rolled out all over the place The most notable is in San Franciso. Rates adjust month by month based on demand, with the goal of having one empty on-street space per block, basically at all times. The goal is to eliminate cruising for parking, which is a major contributor to congestion, as well as price close to what the market would dictate. In SF, this has resulted in LOWER average parking rates, because those spaces less in demand have seen their prices drop, while high demand areas have gone up. Of course, this comes tied in with a mobile app so you can always see where there are open spaces and how much each block costs, etc.

 

Calgary has a similar system in place now too.

 

My biggest criticism of these systems is the limitations they have imposed on themselves. I guess as a means of providing some sort of stabilization, prices only change once a month, and they can only typically change by 25 cents up to some predetermined maximum. Too many constrictions on the market, in my opinion.

 

I find it weird how right wing types love to talk about the virtues of the free market, except when it comes to things like road pricing and parking?

 

38000 is nowhere enough..There should be 400000

 

Already covered, no space, and no room for the roads needed.

 

I rather pay a private guy $20..Then the city $1...I hate the city...I hate them with a passion...

 

I am forced to park at the P lots because they are good options..But it pains me to pay those bastards..

 

Sorry Zach...They are bastards...They truly are

 

Well, I'm not, and nobody I've met who works for the city or the TPA is.

 

However, you're certainly not "forced" to park in our parking lots. Go give a private enterprise $40 instead of paying Green P rates. You've got no credibility in that statement if you don't back it up with your actions.

[Zach6668 513]

It shouldnt..And it wouldnt if every legislation wasnt anti car....

 

You guys have it all wrong...Instead of banning the car from downtown(which will never happen) , you need to find better car friendly options to reduce gridlock...

 

It's physically impossible. It's geometry. It's space. I mean, this isn't a difficult concept. They teach you in pre-school the concept of shapes and sizes and what can fit where. Even the most "car-friendly" big cities are in states of constant gridlock. It's impossible. It's a fact of life that comes with driving a car in a big city. If you want to live without congestion and cheap parking, you need to go rural, or small town. Move to Thunder Bay, they have the highest number of on-street parking spaces per capita in Ontario, and I don't recall ever being in a traffic jam. The worst was having to wait two or three cycles to turn left from the Harbour Expressway to the Thunder Bay Expressway. However, you trade off all sorts of economic and cultural opportunities that you can only get in a big, world-class city. Make your decision.

 

I usually try to find the Green P lots.

Most of my trips are to the same places, and when I used to travel downtown for work or appointments, I used to hit the same Green P lot nearly every time, because it was convenient and I knew little things about the lot that made it easier.

(at Queen+Victoria)

 

Ironically, Zach now works in the same parking lot. lol

 

I dont know, maybe you take more trips to places that do not have lots. I just find a lot, pay the rate, and move on. And naturally, I lose it when I am walking to where I have to get to, and I see some d-bag parking right in front of the building I am going to, in a no standing space.

I relish seeing them getting towed!

 

few years ago I was interviewing for a position at TD...i went to 3 interviews..It cost me $60..There are NO options in the financial district for cheaper

Dude, I used to park at Queen+Vic and walk there all the time! How far apart were these interviews?

 

I understand, I dont assume my experience is same as yours. Im lucky enough to not have to go as often as I used to, but when I did, I always just assumed I was in for $10-$20 of parking. Back when I went a lot, I got away with $12 most days I think.

 

I mean, seriously... you have three meetings in the financial district and you park your car three separate times? Did I read that right? What the ****? If you're telling me that one session of parking cost you $60, then you're just bad at parking.

 

Park once, and walk around. Any mildly healthy adult should be able to basically cover the entirety of downtown Toronto on foot. Nothing is far away. Walking is probably the fastest option in most cases, when you consider that you'll be walking to and from your parking space anyways. Christ, you can even walk in a climate controlled environment throughout most of downtown via the PATH network! (Shit, I walked home the other day... from Queen and Vic all the way to Eglinton and Avenue Rd... and that's nowhere near downtown.)

 

The lot Arp mentions above, at 33 Queen St. E. is a half block from the PATH system, which basically connects the entire financial district, and it's $20 for 11 hours (7-6) now! Probably less a few years ago when you this occurred.

 

Serge, at some point, don't you have to just accept that is the cost of parking?

 

I mean, that's someone else's land. I dont like paying the price, but obviously that's just business.

 

I hate traffic+paying for parking+other headaches, hence why i try to avoid downtown if possible.

But I get more upset when I have to pay parking in the suburbs. I paid $5 to park near Square One the other night to meet up with some friends in a bar. Come on, get real. Thats a cash grab!

 

I mean, you paid it, right? So there's a market for it, it seems. I'm surprised that it's a thing, though.

 

I know the suburbs were founded on the concept of "free" parking, but as you say, it's still somebody's private land and various economic factors are in play.

 

 

Simple economics Serge.

 

What you want is just impossible. It can hot happen. There is no supply and demand model that can give you cheaper parking like you want.

 

It's also an engineering issue. Cars take up physical space. There is only so much physical space available. You could build a 20 lane expressway into the core and all that would happen is that those cars would empty into the small downtown area and cause gridlock that would backup that 20 lane highway.

 

You know how you help ease congestion and gridlock. You tow away the selfish asshats who are blocking lanes of traffic when they shouldn't be.

 

That and encourage people to use other forms of transportation other than cars. The more people who don't drive the better it is for those who do.

 

Those things would certainly help, for a while.

 

I've started to believe that traffic congestion finds an equilibrium and tends to regress back to it, not long after "fixes" and whatnot are implemented. It's like the concept of induced demand when a new lane opens, or a new road, etc. There's all sorts of latent demand built up ready to quickly make use of the new space opened up. People are willing to accept a certain level of congestion. They show that every day by driving in it. Very few people HAVE to drive, they just choose to, and they do so by weighing their preferences.

 

So I think, even if we ease congestion a little with towing cars, building more transit, etc, I think it's naive to say that it will help congestion in the long run, especially in a still rapidly growing metro area. I think it's irresponsible of the politicians and planners who are pitching transit lines are ways to reduce car traffic... it really doesn't work. The only way I've ever seen car traffic significantly reduced is to introduce road pricing/congestion charges. Charge people to use high demand roads, and you'll see preferences start to shift. It's had some success in London. However, back to my equilibrium theory, congestion is slowly picking back up and regressing to the mean.

[Zach6668 513]

Whew... that was fun.

 

That's 9 pages in MS Word. That should be a paper for school. I even cited things!

 

I don't expect anybody to read any of that, but I find it fascinating nonetheless.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Whew... that was fun.

 

That's 9 pages in MS Word. That should be a paper for school. I even cited things!

 

I don't expect anybody to read any of that, but I find it fascinating nonetheless.

 

i read it

[serge 904]

I had an interview at the same building. 3 different days

[serge 904]

I have a meeting 10 am on Friday at 263 Adelaide.

 

Where am I parking?

[Zach6668 513]

I had an interview at the same building. 3 different days

 

Ah ok, yeah... but it still shouldn't be $20 per day... at least at Green P you pay by half-hour... they just have a max that they'll charge you for the day... so like, if it's $2/half hour, it's $4/hr... say the max is $20, you pay for the first 5 hours, then basically get whatever is left in the day for "free". Days usually run 7 am to 6 pm, so it's basically a commuter rate for people who drive and park for work. I guess if you're in the building for that long, then ya, $20/day, but I'm imagining an hour long interview, I dunno.

[Zach6668 513]

I have a meeting 10 am on Friday at 263 Adelaide.

 

Where am I parking?

 

East or West?

[Zach6668 513]

One thing that I didn't mention is what the purpose of on-street parking is.

 

On-street parking exists to support local retail/commercial businesses, so the rates and restrictions are designed to increase turnover of the spaces. Businesses get more traffic when the spaces turn over more frequently, of course.

 

Most Green P lots have the same mandate, but pull double duty by having day max rates to give commuters a bit of a break (they also sell monthly passes to certain lots).

 

The TPA isn't in the business of providing parking spaces exclusively to commuters, as it's against the goals and policies of the Official Plan to promote cheap/easy driving into the city, particularly at peak hours. We actively monitor the number of "commuters" we have in our lots, and if it's too high of a percentage, they'll up the day max or remove it altogether.

[serge 904]

West

[Zach6668 513]

I'll give you a comprehensive list of options in the 2nd intermission of the Pens game, or after it's over.

[Babying 613]

I have a meeting 10 am on Friday at 263 Adelaide.

 

Where am I parking?

 

I have to be at 55 University at 10 am on Friday. Come with me and I will cover parking.

[serge 904]

 

 

I have to be at 55 University at 10 am on Friday. Come with me and I will cover parking.

 

Is it close

[Babying 613]

Is it close

Kind of. Maybe 5-8 mins apart

[Zach6668 513]

263 Adelaide St. W.

 

Assumptions: Serge spends 3 hours downtown

 

Option 1

• Leave Serge's house (~35-40 minutes depending on traffic)
  
• Park at Green P Lot 262 at 302 Queen St. W. ($2.25 per 30 mins with a day max of $16 (7am to 6 pm))
  
• Walk 550m (6 minutes) to your destination
  
• Total cost: $13.50 + gas + wear/tear. Round trip time = approx 90 minutes.
  

Option 2:

• Leave Serge's house (~35-40 minutes depending on traffic)
  
• Park at one of two Green P lots at corner of Spadina and Adelaide ($2.75 per 30 mins with a day max of $16 (7am to 6 pm))
  
• Walk 450m-500m (5 minutes) to your destination
  
• Total cost: $16.00 + gas + wear/tear. Round trip time = approx 90 minutes.
  

Option 3

• Leave Serge's house (~35-40 minutes depending on traffic)
  
• Park at Quick Park private lot at Adelaide and John ($3.00 per 30 mins with a day max of $15 (7am to 6 pm))
  
• Walk 100m (1 minute) to your destination
  
• Total cost: $15.00 + gas + wear/tear. Round trip time = approx 80 minutes.
  

Option 4

• Leave Serge's house (~10-15 minutes depending on traffic)
  
• Park at Pickering GO Station (free)
  
• Take train to Union Station ($14.90 round trip from Pickering) - roughly every 15 minutes, so average wait time is 7.5 minutes. Trip is between 32 and 45 minutes, 3 of 4 trains per hour are express, scheduled for 32 minutes to Union Station.
  
• Walk 1000m to your destination (12 minutes)
  
• Total cost: $14.90 + gas + wear/tear (less than driving to downtown). Round trip time = approx 125 minutes (assuming express train).
  

Option 5:

• Leave Serge's house (~20-25 minutes depending on traffic)
  
• Park at Don Mills Station ($6.00 before 9:30, free after)
  
• Take Sheppard subway to Yonge subway to St. Andrew Station (King St.) ($3.00 each way, 53 minutes including average wait time at two subway stops)
  
• Walk 500m to you destination (5-6 minutes)
  
• Total cost: $12.00 + gas + wear/tear (less than driving to downtown, more than driving to GO). Round trip time = approx 165 minutes.
  

 

Evaluation:

 

I think I'd rank the options 3, 1, 2, 4, 5. I'm probably not really accounting enough for gas, but it's super cheap right now, so that's less of an issue. What do you think it is, $10 to get to downtown and back? $2 to get to Pickering GO and back? $5 to get to Don Mills and back? Not a huge difference, though it turns a $12-$15 car+transit ride into a ~$25 car+parking ride, So that's were it depends on your preferences. I like not having the hassle of a car downtown, I'm a poor student, and I enjoy walking, so I'd probably choose option #4, myself. The extra 20 minutes or so each way is not that valuable to me compared to the $10 I'd save and what I'd gain in not worrying about driving, getting to read or do whatever on my phone on the train, etc.

 

However, I think, given what I know about your preferences, you'd be better off with any of the first 3 options, so you should do those. Option 3 is the best because it's right next to your destination, and basically the cheapest if you're there for more than 2.5 hours.

 

It should be noted that I didn't really account for rush hour traffic in assigning car travel times, since I don't really know. I inflated what Google tells me the trip right now would take just a bit, but perhaps not enough. That would hit the longer driving trips harder, obviously.

 

There's another option, which is on-street parking (maximum time limit of 3 hours). I'm not sure what is available there, but it's mostly in a $4.00/hr zone, so competitive with any of 1, 2, or 3.

 

Conclusion:

 

Serge should choose option 3, with options 1 and 2 as backup plans if the lots are full, and/or look for street parking in the area.

[Babying 613]

Serge should park his car in my driveway and hitch a ride with me. If he finishes before me (I am done at 2 pm) and wants to go home early. Take the TTC for about 35 mins and get off at Woodbine (walk 5 mins to my house)

 

Cost of gas + wear/tear (I don't know), Cost of TTC $3, spend time with me (Priceless),

[serge 904]

That's some detailed stuff.

[Ottawa_Biatch 288]

Serge should stay on his couch. I'm working from home today. It's -39 on ottawa today. I am not leaving my house for a week

[gruven 530]

Here's another thought: Im all for as massive a crackdown as they can muster. Why? I've sat behind the wheel of a fire truck with lights and siren on and unable to move on Queen or Adelaide because illegally parked cars and delivery trucks have created gridlock. There have been very real discussions at the city level as to whether or not traffic has contributed directly to deaths in fires, accidents, or medical causes. The answer is inevitably yes.