Vegas Knights 54 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 double post Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Knights 54 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 In the interview, he called craps a "beatable" game, which is hilarious, and tells you all you need to know. You want to stake a guy who thinks craps is beatable, have a blast Yes, if he's won 58 major tournaments and more money than Johnny Chan at the WSOP. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 What he has won, is irrelevant. It's what is he GOING to win. And I'd bet that Chan's ROI is better than Coultier's by a factor of 10 Link to post Share on other sites
NickCave 194 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Yeah, Archie Karas should of walked away after turning 50 dollars into 40 million.because craps can't be beat. You're serious, aren't you? You're not making a joke? PLEASE JUST SAY YOU ARE SERIOUS Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Knights 54 Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Yeah, Archie Karas should of walked away after turning 50 dollars into 40 million.because craps can't be beat. You're serious, aren't you? You're not making a joke? PLEASE JUST SAY YOU ARE SERIOUS Nah, I was being facetious. Link to post Share on other sites
NickCave 194 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 So, for the record, you are saying craps CAN be beaten? You think maybe Cloutier is thiiiiis close to finally solving the mystery? Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Knights 54 Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 So, for the record, you are saying craps CAN be beaten? You think maybe Cloutier is thiiiiis close to finally solving the mystery? .At one time Archie Karas had every $5000 chip at Binions casino. Not bad for a guy who started with $50. I leave it at that. And this thread is not about craps. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 You're making it sound like he sat down at binions with 50, and started rolling. That's factually incorrect. He came to vegas with 50 bucks... and then got a 10K loan to play poker. he then went on a run of poker and pool hustling, where he worked his bankroll up to 17 million. Which is fabulously impressive, but it was in games that were certainly beatable, if you had the skill. When he got to 17 million, THEN he started rolling. Binions, who had a policy of putting no limit on what you could wager, were probably taking staggering bets from him when he had 17 Million, and he went on a hot run. That doesn't make craps beatable. And you ignore the second part of this story that he lost it all back playing craps and baccarrat. If craps was "Beatable" he wouldn't have gone busto and stayed busto. The myth making of these degenerates is just so funny to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Didn't he end up losing the $40million back at the craps table? Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Craps, Baccarat and to poker players Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Knights 54 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 In the interview, {TJ Cloutier} called craps a "beatable" game, which is hilarious, and tells you all you need to know. You want to stake a guy who thinks craps is beatable, have a blast. Yeah, I would stake Phil Ivey. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I doubt Phil Ivey thinks craps is beatable. But go ahead and ignore my dispelling ot the 50 into 40 million craps myth. Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Knights 54 Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 Chip Reese Phil Ivey Tom Dwan Erik Seidel Barry Greenstein Patrik Antonius Doyle Brunson Stu Ungar Johnny Moss Wild Bill Hickok IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER SERIOUS BUSINESS, THIS IS SERIOUS LIST Last two are sorta wildcard guesses, don't know much about them. The first 8 though all seem to be very well respected all round. Johnny Moss was kind of an enigma. He had a 3rd grade education, but was obviously very smart at poker. Doyle Brunson always said he was a great player. The reason he wasn't on my list is that he didn't seem to be a very public person or promote the game that much. I saw him playing a few times in Vegas. His wife would always sit behind him as he played, even when he was in his 80's. Link to post Share on other sites
StormDeal 0 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Doyle Amarillo TJ Daniel Negreanu Phil Ivey Dan Harrington Stu Ungar Sam Trickett Johnny Chan Me Link to post Share on other sites
StormDeal 0 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 OK the argument between TJ and Antonius is invalid. Of course every pro would vote for Antonius in a heads up battle right now. Because Patrick is in his prime and TJ is a senior citizen. How about we turn the tables and have TJ in his prime say 30 years ago and Patrick as a 4 year old then who you betting on? The simple truth is that TJ has accomplished more in his career than Patrick. One is in the Hall of fame and one is not. That is not to say that Patrick may pass him one day. It is always difficult comparing people from different eras, especially poker players. As for what TJ says about craps. Who cares? Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Johnny Moss also ran the dirtiest poker room in the country in vegas during the 70's. In addition to the cheating that was done in the big game, the small raked games were called " Snatch pot" games,. Dealers were supposed to rake 1-2 dollars out of the pot, but were trained to rake as much as they could, each time the handled the chips to "Snatch" a chip or two away, raking sometimes as much as 10-15 dollars a pot. A totally respectable guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Knights 54 Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 Doyle Amarillo TJ Daniel Negreanu Phil Ivey Dan Harrington Stu Ungar Sam Trickett Johnny Chan Me Why do you think "Me" is respected? Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Knights 54 Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 Johnny Moss also ran the dirtiest poker room in the country in vegas during the 70's. In addition to the cheating that was done in the big game, the small raked games were called " Snatch pot" games,. Dealers were supposed to rake 1-2 dollars out of the pot, but were trained to rake as much as they could, each time the handled the chips to "Snatch" a chip or two away, raking sometimes as much as 10-15 dollars a pot. A totally respectable guy. With a 3rd grade education and a wife to support maybe he needed a job and couldn't protest too much if a higher up made the policy. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 lol @ hire ups made the policy. You're a complete apologist for degenerates. Johnny Moss was a cheat, and ran a crooked card room that he had utter autonomy over. Snatch pots weren't casino policy, the money went to him. My old local cardroom had an old dealer who used to deal in that room. You're living in a fantasy world, where these old school poker players are "characters" and "legends", when what they really were, were degenerates and cheats. Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Knights 54 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 lol @ hire ups made the policy. You're a complete apologist for degenerates. Johnny Moss was a cheat, and ran a crooked card room that he had utter autonomy over. Snatch pots weren't casino policy, the money went to him. My old local cardroom had an old dealer who used to deal in that room. You're living in a fantasy world, where these old school poker players are "characters" and "legends", when what they really were, were degenerates and cheats. I seriously doubt Moss had utter autonomy over a cardroom located in a Vegas hotel that probably had connections with "the boys" in that era. I'm not saying he was an angel (having grown up on the streets of Dallas) but I have a feeling there were higher ups who pulled the strings and who Moss was accountable to. Dealers don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 lol you're such a rube. Link to post Share on other sites
Jam-Fly 8 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 There's a big difference between being respected and being a 'legend'. It's totally possible to be one or both. Someone like Chip Reese would be a good example of someone who is both. The vast, vast majority of poker players have respect for him, and a lot of people see him as a poker legend. However, players like Stuey Ungar would probably fall more in the legend category rather than the respect category, but he is still very well respected. Then you have someone like Archie Karas, who most definitely is a legend, but I wouldn't consider him very well respected. Then if you like at someone like David Oppenheim (picked somewhat off the top of my head). I don't know for sure, but he seems to be a very well respected poker player. However, you wouldn't hear his name fall in the 'legend' category very often. I think people are confusing what it means to be a respected and to be a legend or be remembered. TJ Cloutier will certainly be remembered, but I don't think he'll ever be remembered as someone who was respected by the masses. It's funny because 'respect' doesn't even necessarily have a direct correlation with poker skill. Even guys like Negreanu and Hellmuth, both have great results over a long period of time, but they're still far from universally respected (there's a good chance this is for non poker reasons, but still). Link to post Share on other sites
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