mrdannyg 274 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 SO many ins and out of this. One of the biggest possibilities is that this just kills scholarships for fringe sports. Remember, the NCAA had to be MANDATED to offer equal scholarships for women's sports. If this opens up a free market, then you can bet that lacrosse, and badminton, etc, will all see a stop to their funding to create more funding available for the big sports. Interesting, in most pro sports the revenue share number is around 50%. Last year the NCAA Final Four tournament had 841 million in revenue. Just the tournament. The numbers are sick when you extrapolate them across all the schools and all the sports. There's also a good chance the NCAA spends 100 million on legal fees to keep this tied up in courts tip 2145 A.D. The last sentence is not even negotiable, which is why for the time being, I hate seeing people get excited over what's happening right now. I mostly agree with you, and of course, there could always be reasonable controls put in place. It's easy to think about what absurd numbers might look like if we divy up $841 million across a couple hundred D1 schools. But presumably there is some middle ground that sees top schools/programs funded and other programs maintaining some - either with earnings caps or requirements for shares in other programs. After all, we have salary caps and such even in professional sports, so there's no reason to think that the NCAA, or whatever they decide to call it after this all happens, doesn't get some ridiculously unconstitutional and incredibly profitable anti-trust treatment that the major sports leagues do, and in doing so, allow the numbers and programs to retain some of the positives associated with the current setup. Then again, one of my biggest concerns is around fewer and fewer people getting reasonable scholarships/funding from universities. And really, is that so bad? I know a lot of very smart people who had financial assistance due to athletics in university. And those smart people may have been better off with the lack of debt they had on graduation, even if it meant poorer educational standards, since they were competing/training so much. As a society though, I think we're better off. Lets let schools be schools and athletic training be athletic training. That's how everyone else does it in the world. The result, somewhat unintuitively, is often lower-quality athletics (presumably because most people decide to lessen their devotion to athletics earlier in other places than the U.S. since the only option is to 'go pro' or live a normal life, whereas in the States, you can keep training well past the age where a decision usually has to be made), but improved quality educational institutitions and an overall better-educated (while less athletic society). All that is to be taken with a grain of salt, since of course I'm Canadian, and just don't really 'get' college sports. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Cuba was fun...The weather was almost perfect..The whole time we were there it was 30 degrees and sunny..We had 15 minutes of rain , and a half of day of high wind where the beach wasnt swimmable..but other than that it was perfect.. The kids had an amazing time..Thats the most important thing.. The country is like nowhere I have been before...I have been to a lot of Caribbean countries and you see a lot of similarities, but not Cuba...Its weird to go to a country with no Mcdonalds, Subway, Pizza Hut.....Where a Coke(if you can find one) is like $3 because it being shipped from Mexico or overseas...You can really feel the the lack of US presence... I actually enjoyed there local Cola TUKOLA ..And Cristal the local beer is great...The one thing you hear about Cuba is that the food isnt great..Well its not what we are used to in North America, but the resort has plenty of food...you just had to pick and choose..The food was actually pretty good...Just had to skip the weird bland looking food that you cant make out..Loved the cheese.. Its a different economy then we are used to..ITs a socialist communist regime, where an average worker makes $20 a month and a doctor makes $250 a month..However the government supplies them with food, bare essentials..Health Care and ALL education is free, from elementary to post secondary... Also a unique experience as 85% of the resort was Canadian..No Americans obviously, other than people like my wife..Few Europeans from France,Italy and some Russians. Lots of Leaf fans, as we all came together for updates and all cried in our beer(for a minute) then went back to enjoy the wonderful resort..I even made friends with some Habs fans..Serge is less angry in a tropical paradise environment. Best story of small world..We had a reservation at the Japonese restaurant, and the tables seats 8...we are 6 and the two empty seats are two Italian guys from Toronto..After a couple of minutes the guys stands up and says..I KNOW YOU, to my dad..Happened to be his patient.. Oh Zach one was a TTC bus driver, the other a Subway driver..Nicest guys ever..Had lots of cool stories..Lots of Rob Ford jokes going around in the resort amongst Torontonians.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Best story of small world..We had a reservation at the Japonese restaurant, and the tables seats 8...we are 6 and the two empty seats are two Italian guys from Toronto..After a couple of minutes the guys stands up and says..I KNOW YOU, to my dad..Happened to be his patient.. LOL. That has happen to my wife quite a few times but in the city not in Cuba. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Sounds awesome Serge, glad it was nice. Cristal is the shit. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Only time I read is when I fly or go lay on the beach. Started reading Steve Jobs biography. His story is fascinating. The way visionaries like Jobs,Wozniak and Gates changed our world is amazing. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Only time I read is when I fly or go lay on the beach. Started reading Steve Jobs biography. His story is fascinating. The way visionaries like Jobs,Wozniak and Gates changed our world is amazing. We know someone who works for Apple. She said that Jobs would fire anyone who looked at him. Very strange person. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Serge, welcome back. Chris/Danny....Im fascinated by this story, been following this as closely as I could, thanks to the introduction to all this from Bob McCowans show.....seems like there are a lot of pros and cons to this, and lots of points I had not considered, like the one Chris made about how this would kill sports scholarships for the sports that do not make profits. I dont know, I realize its ungodly amounts of money the universities are making off sports, but really, there has to be a better fix/solution to all this that doesn't involve students becoming unionized. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 They should use the sports income to award scholarships to low income families, minorities, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 They should use the sports income to award scholarships to low income families, minorities, etc. Could you please start a new thread for all your socialistic, Marxist drivel. Thanks! (jk jk) But seriously, what? You want them to now just give all the money away, instead of paying any of the people who make it happen, ie AD, coaches, therapists, student-athletes? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Yeah I have no idea. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I'm pro student athletes getting paid. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Serge, welcome back. Chris/Danny....Im fascinated by this story, been following this as closely as I could, thanks to the introduction to all this from Bob McCowans show.....seems like there are a lot of pros and cons to this, and lots of points I had not considered, like the one Chris made about how this would kill sports scholarships for the sports that do not make profits. I dont know, I realize its ungodly amounts of money the universities are making off sports, but really, there has to be a better fix/solution to all this that doesn't involve students becoming unionized. It's an interesting topic. I'm on the side that I don't think they should be paid. I like to see the numbers. How do you equate a NFL bound first round QB to a second string soccer goalie there on a scholarship? Do the universities actually make ungodly money off sports? Or do they just make ungodly money off the sexy sports like division 1 football and basketball? The schools are a business They have every right to make ungodly amounts of money to better there financial position. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Are state schools for profit? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Universities in Canada aren't purely for profit enterprises. I don't know if a purely capitalist model for universities is in the best interest of the public as it is. They exist to further the society and culture, whether that is in merely training the workers of the future, or in innovation and research, etc. I think they need to be more focused on those goals rather than the bottom line. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Are state schools for profit? I dont believe they are ..However they have every right to raise as much money as they can for their school and their states. I am not a socialist but the more money they make, the more scholarships they can give out to kids that actually need it.. Why does a kid that has natural athletic ability get a scholarship and now maybe get paid to go to school? Again I dont know the numbers but are academic scholarships equivalent to athletic ones? Why not PAY a mathematics genius to come to your school then? A computer or business student? I think colleges are opening up a path that they dont want to go down, if they unionize and start paying student athletes. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I dont believe they are ..However they have every right to raise as much money as they can for their school and their states. I am not a socialist but the more money they make, the more scholarships they can give out to kids that actually need it.. Why does a kid that has natural athletic ability get a scholarship and now maybe get paid to go to school? Again I dont know the numbers but are academic scholarships equivalent to athletic ones? Why not PAY a mathematics genius to come to your school then? A computer or business student? I think colleges are opening up a path that they dont want to go down, if they unionize and start paying student athletes. Well, any school I've been to, and obviously none of these are in the US, has scholarships automatically given to high school entrants who have a certain average grade. It was anything over 80 when I first went to LU. I'm sure RU has similar ones. They also tend to have ongoing scholarships for good university grades, but not sure how those work, and a lot of them are through endowments, not from their operating budget. I would imagine there are a number of scholarships given out for academics by most US universities. Just given the sheer numbers of students who aren't athletes, I imagine if it isn't more, than it's very close. Not all athletes are being given free rides, and the rest of the very best and brightest really do end up with scholarships as well, and universities competing over them, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Interesting thing I didn't know. Harvard and the other Ivy League colleges do not award athletic scholarships. Scholarships are awarded as a financial aid needed basis only Link to post Share on other sites
Ottawa_Biatch 288 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 How does Harvard do so well in sports every year then? They always beat the Oregon ducks in college football, and last night were in the sweet 16 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 How does Harvard do so well in sports every year then? They always beat the Oregon ducks in college football, and last night were in the sweet 16 They are all smarter Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Speaking strictly for Basketball and Football, as long as there is no other option for the best athletes in the country to develop their skills and further their careers, I think those NCAA athletes should be paid. Figuring out a system that incorporates all the other non-profit sports sounds like a nightmare. IMO, the NCAA basketball and football players (male) should be paid at market value, and the other ports should remain unchanged, but I doubt that's feasible Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Speaking strictly for Basketball and Football, as long as there is no other option for the best athletes in the country to develop their skills and further their careers, I think those NCAA athletes should be paid. Figuring out a system that incorporates all the other non-profit sports sounds like a nightmare. IMO, the NCAA basketball and football players (male) should be paid at market value, and the other ports should remain unchanged, but I doubt that's feasible Here is a scenario...Lebron James(or equivalent) is a high school phenom..Cant miss prospect...Projected to be a hall of famer.. When recruiting Lebron, colleges have an open vault of cash to throw at him..Does he sign a 4 year collegiate contract of say $50 million? Im assuming there has to be some sort of "cap" or limit of they can be paid? If it was a free for all, how much is a guy like Lebron worth to your college...The number might be mind blowing.. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 That could create a funny dynamic if a guy like Lebron could make more in college than in a cap league... Would he stay in schoolbook longer rather than turn pro? Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 That could create a funny dynamic if a guy like Lebron could make more in college than in a cap league... Would he stay in schoolbook longer rather than turn pro? The numbers are just ridicolous in college.. Here are some numbers of post season TV ad Revenue for the major sports and the NCAA NHL Hockey $124 Million MLB $592 Million NBA $929 Million NFL $1.101 BILLION NCAA $1.152 BILLION source: http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-tournament-tv-ad-revenue-nfl-playoffs-2014-3 NFL has way less games than the other sports, but its pretty amazing...Also CBS signed a contract in 2010 for 14 years $10.8 BILLION. Which seems to be a good deal for CBS Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 If it's a free market, the players will be paid what they are worth to the school. If Lebron is worth $50 mill in that scenario, I don't see a problem with it. If it means he stays in school for 4 years instead of heading to the NBA, I still don't see a problem with it. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Thinking loudly again, but wouldnt this have a big effect on Canadian junior hockey players? More players might opt for college than the OHL , AHL route? Some people actually think its the better way to go anyways for certain players now.. Link to post Share on other sites
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