Off Topic, Kinda.....

[digitalmonkey 929]

Something on the San Bernadino shooting...

 

I don't know the what's true or what's not, but questioning is always good.

 

The think-thing typo made me cringe, but "coincidence theorists" made up for it.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/06/holes/

 

What do you think?

[mrdannyg 274]

Dale - half the conspiracy-type things you post say things like "the media wouldn't report this" then write things that were reported at the time. The drone on the American teenager was front page news for weeks, and I think everyone who pays even some attention to that type of story (I put myself on the very low end) acknowledged that the US did something terrible, almost certainly illegal and unconstitutional, and hid behind "proof" that it could call a national security concern and therefore never have to prove it to anyone but themselves. Did the media report on it in as much depth or with as much investigative work as they should have? I don't know, probably not. But to say that they didn't at all or whatever is why people ignore the reasonable conspiracies, because they're written no different than the alien chemtrails

[mrdannyg 274]

 

 

I'm glad you want to poke holes in it!!!

 

I consider myself an extremely openminded person. I'm presenting what I believe to be true. If what you or someone else believes to be true contradicts my beliefs then I can disagree with you but who's to say who's right or wrong unless there is some mutually accepted proof?

 

I don't believe in a god. Billions do. I can't prove them wrong so how can I say they're wrong (and really mean it)? I can also accept that just believing in a god means one exists...I really don't know. I mean, it doesn't have to be tangible to exist, right.

 

Santa Claus is a real thing for kids. Does Santa Claus exist until we find out he's not real?

 

Anyway, my two fields of study are psychology and journalism. I try to look for information without any preconceived notions. I'm not looking for evidence to support what I believe. I typically look for things to dispute what I believe and then see if they hold any weight. Obviously, I'm human so I have biases that I'm likely not completely aware of.

 

Anyway I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything..other than to seek out information on their own.

 

I would love to be proven wrong about many of the things I believe because a lot of it is some scary-ass shit.

 

Well to paraphrase someone I have talked to, if you're looking for absolute proof, you're never going to find it!

 

As a matter of course, you don't believe any source that has access to hard information or evidence because you assume that they are only being shown what their sources want them to see or are paid/threatened to say things they don't believe - I don't see how in this scenario you could ever be convinced of something you don't already believe.

[digitalmonkey 929]

What's your point, Danny? That's it's justifiable to dismiss everything as conspiracy theory because some of them are ridiculous? That the reports that claim the media didn't report on it are lies and therefore the whole claim that something else is going on is also a lie?

 

 

[digitalmonkey 929]

 

 

Well to paraphrase someone I have talked to, if you're looking for absolute proof, you're never going to find it!

 

As a matter of course, you don't believe any source that has access to hard information or evidence because you assume that they are only being shown what their sources want them to see or are paid/threatened to say things they don't believe - I don't see how in this scenario you could ever be convinced of something you don't already believe.

 

Many people have the ability to read what's being said and then consider who's saying it and why it's being said and then weigh those factors. It's why motive and "following the money" are important.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I'm not claiming the things I believe are the absolute truth. I just don't know for sure.

 

I don't know what you or others here think about any of the things I've brought up because nobody has really shared much. Most of the talk has been about questioning me and my beliefs. Do you have questions about what's going on? Do you question the official reports? Maybe if people stopped trying to convince each other and looked at things with an open mind we'd find more answers. Right now, people are divided...if not by race or religion or income then by something else.

 

Divide and conquer is a great strategy. It's been around for ages. Is it happening still? Who benefits when the people are too busy fighting amongst themselves over whether chemtrails are real or not?

 

Just like some government agents posed as members of Anonymous, I'm sure there are some planting stories filled with misdirection and plain old bullshit to encourage the division of the people.

[mrdannyg 274]

What's your point, Danny? That's it's justifiable to dismiss everything as conspiracy theory because some of them are ridiculous? That the reports that claim the media didn't report on it are lies and therefore the whole claim that something else is going on is also a lie?

 

My point is that the theories generally require some amount of faith or belief, and when they lead with easily disproven statements, it is difficult to accept any other aspects without careful vetting since they have already demonstrated a willingness to explicitly lie in order to make a point.

 

Many people have the ability to read what's being said and then consider who's saying it and why it's being said and then weigh those factors. It's why motive and "following the money" are important.

 

I agree, though you seem to take these factors and come to different conclusions than many others, but assume it is because the others aren't actually doing what you suggest (when they would argue they are). That's fine - differences of opinion happen, and I think everyone should question themselves if they regularly find themselves agreeing or disagreeing with certain sources based on unproven assumptions.

 

I'm not claiming the things I believe are the absolute truth. I just don't know for sure.

 

I don't know what you or others here think about any of the things I've brought up because nobody has really shared much. Most of the talk has been about questioning me and my beliefs. Do you have questions about what's going on? Do you question the official reports? Maybe if people stopped trying to convince each other and looked at things with an open mind we'd find more answers. Right now, people are divided...if not by race or religion or income then by something else.

 

Divide and conquer is a great strategy. It's been around for ages. Is it happening still? Who benefits when the people are too busy fighting amongst themselves over whether chemtrails are real or not?

 

Just like some government agents posed as members of Anonymous, I'm sure there are some planting stories filled with misdirection and plain old bullshit to encourage the division of the people.

 

I have no doubts about the last aspect of this, whether it pertains to Anonymous, "official" reports, mainstream or supposed grassroots media, etc. Governments have been planting people in other country's militaries and organized crime rings for years, I'm sure it continues to be a widespread practice in all types of organizations.

 

As for the rest, a few of us have posted that we do regularly and as a matter of course question official reports and sources, etc. I think a lot of us simply view them with a healthy amount of skepticism, using our own beliefs on motive and reasonability to come to our own conclusions about what probably happened. A lot has been questioning you since you seem to come to more extreme conclusions on many aspects while also spending more time and effort to determine your views, so our questions have been aimed at determining whether we agree with your process and sources and therefore might benefit ourselves from taking those steps.

 

Personally, I don't find the extra steps you take to have provided you with much information that I find to be actionable, but that's just me, and we disagree on critical assumptions, like how useful it would be to actually have a big conspiracy proven or what proportion of people are actually as ignorant and sheep-like to fully believe whatever the newspaper wants them to.

[digitalmonkey 929]

 

 

My point is that the theories generally require some amount of faith or belief, and when they lead with easily disproven statements, it is difficult to accept any other aspects without careful vetting since they have already demonstrated a willingness to explicitly lie in order to make a point.

 

Well, believing what the government tells you also requires faith too, no? And do we need to go into the numerous examples when the government, including Presidents, have explicitly lied in order to fool the people for one reason or another?

 

 

I agree, though you seem to take these factors and come to different conclusions than many others, but assume it is because the others aren't actually doing what you suggest (when they would argue they are). That's fine - differences of opinion happen, and I think everyone should question themselves if they regularly find themselves agreeing or disagreeing with certain sources based on unproven assumptions.

 

Interesting, because I don't know what conclusions you or others have come to. You seem to just disagree with me because I can't prove what I believe. You say it's good to question things but at the same time it seems to me that you believe the quest for truth is pointless.

 

I have no doubts about the last aspect of this, whether it pertains to Anonymous, "official" reports, mainstream or supposed grassroots media, etc. Governments have been planting people in other country's militaries and organized crime rings for years, I'm sure it continues to be a widespread practice in all types of organizations.

 

As for the rest, a few of us have posted that we do regularly and as a matter of course question official reports and sources, etc. I think a lot of us simply view them with a healthy amount of skepticism, using our own beliefs on motive and reasonability to come to our own conclusions about what probably happened. A lot has been questioning you since you seem to come to more extreme conclusions on many aspects while also spending more time and effort to determine your views, so our questions have been aimed at determining whether we agree with your process and sources and therefore might benefit ourselves from taking those steps.

 

What conclusions have you come to on any of the issues brought up? I asked about your thoughts on the JFK assassination and you basically replied that it didn't matter.

 

What is a healthy dose of skepticism?

 

Why do you consider my views more extreme? More extreme then whom?

 

What are your sources for disagreeing with me and viewing my beliefs as extreme? What information are you basing this on?

 

Personally, I don't find the extra steps you take to have provided you with much information that I find to be actionable, but that's just me, and we disagree on critical assumptions, like how useful it would be to actually have a big conspiracy proven or what proportion of people are actually as ignorant and sheep-like to fully believe whatever the newspaper wants them to.

 

Well, when you consider that FOX news is the network with the highest ratings I'm sure there is a significant part of the population that is being mislead. There are also reports that FOX news contains more inaccuracies (lies?) than CNN and MSNBC...but of course one can spend the effort questioning these reports instead of actually questioning FOX.

 

You seem to make some significant assumptions. You have no idea what information I have obtained. You also seem to assume that when I post a link to something I take everything in the article as absolute truth. I post because I believe some of it to be true and that some of it raises points that could/should be discussed

 

I am amazed that you don't believe there is any merit in discovering the truth. To me that is what allows people to continue to get away with lies and manipulation.

 

Some people take "extra steps" in an effort to find the truth and expose lies or inconsistencies while others take "extra steps" to acquire knowledge about baseball or so-and-so's OBP against lefthanded hitters in domes in day games. Some do both. I'm not saying either person is better than the other...different strokes for different folks...but your dismissal of the validity of the extra steps I have taken says more about your belief that the truth doesn't really matter than it says about anything else. I think the truth matters a whole lot. But I can accept that there's a chance I'm wrong about that too. Regardless, I won't stop because if what I say results in one person questioning one thing that they would have otherwise accepted or ignored then it's worth it to me.

[gruven 530]

But Dale, if you post links to articles that you believe MAY contain some truth or points to be discussed, aren't you then perpetuating the possibilities of inaccuracies because someone reading it may take the wrong or incorrect points out of that story?

[digitalmonkey 929]

But Dale, if you post links to articles that you believe MAY contain some truth or points to be discussed, aren't you then perpetuating the possibilities of inaccuracies because someone reading it may take the wrong or incorrect points out of that story?

 

I can't tell someone what to believe, not even the points I believe. I can only provide them with a source in which I find something I believe. It's up to everyone to do their own research and reach their own conclusions.

 

I believe this is better than ignoring things or accepting official reports where inaccuracies may exist.

[iBeaver 409]

I just can't see myself spending my time researching every news article I read or any report I watch. Probably why o don't watch any news nor read much other than sports and a few local things.

 

I have zero doubt that there are dubious things going on in the world. These dubious things have also been going on long before I ever was born. Before my parents were born. Does it make it right? No. But I just can't get up in arms about it because there is nothing I can do about it. So I find out that the California thing is different than reported. What do I do with that knowledge? I cant go to my police. I can't call my congressman. Allegedly everyone in power is part of the cover ups anyway right? Who do I trust? Who will protect me once I realize these awful truths?

 

I know you'll come up with all these questions I can't answer so be prepared. I do believe things are not always as they seem but in the long run these things won't impact my life in any dangerous way so I'm not going to spend my days in fear. Maybe that's a cop out but it's how I decide to go about my life. I have things to do. I know people who live in this perpetual fear that one day the government will show its "true" face and all hell breaks loose. I can't live like that. Maybe that is wrong and stupid of me but oh well that's the way I'm going to go about it. People thought the same when my parents were kids and when they were parents. I guess we are all waiting for this terrible ax to drop.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Your life, your choices, Steve.

 

I don't know if anything can be done, but I know apathy won't result in any change.

 

Whatever the choice there will likely be a cost.

 

 

[mrdannyg 274]

Well, believing what the government tells you also requires faith too, no? And do we need to go into the numerous examples when the government, including Presidents, have explicitly lied in order to fool the people for one reason or another?

 

It does, though typically those stories at least have a basis in facts that are very likely to be true (aka the person's name, hometown, blah blah). When the basis of the argument is "the media didn't report this" and the media did report it then I Just have nothing to go on.

 

 

Interesting, because I don't know what conclusions you or others have come to. You seem to just disagree with me because I can't prove what I believe. You say it's good to question things but at the same time it seems to me that you believe the quest for truth is pointless.

 

I've said the opposite - that the quest for truth alone is an important goal. What I don't believe is that any amount of chasing questionable articles and sources down will get you any closer, with any confidence. All it will do is give you more tidbits to reinforce existing opinions. If we were arguing the validity of sending $100 to wikileaks or funding a truly independent investigative report into JFK's assassination, that'd be a different discussion.

 

I don't speak for others, but the conclusions I've come to on JFK and just about anything else are something like - what is in the media is almost certainly adjusted, spun and misrepresented in a way that corporate/government powers felt it would be suitable for my consumption, and it is possible that the actual reporters/editors are aware of only a small portion of this influence (aka they believe sources are legitimate, when they're actually not). I believe that what is presented as the truth may or may not be the truth, but the effect of which is mainly important for how it is digested by people in general, so the media reports, taken as a whole, will represent what we consider history, even if that isn't the absolute truth. And where we probably most strongly disagree, is that I believe that if there are powers so great that they have signfiicant control over what information is or isn't available to me, then they can effectively determine "truth" and "history" in ways that I will never understand unless I devote my life to investigative work unconvering their secrets (which may well get me killed, and may well only lead me to believe that they had generally positive intentions), and so it is reasonable to accept their version of the truth, since the real truth is both irrelevant and impossible on an overall scale (for any individual story, someone could break and the real story comes out, but doubtful it changes how the next one is reported).

 

What conclusions have you come to on any of the issues brought up? I asked about your thoughts on the JFK assassination and you basically replied that it didn't matter.

 

Same as above.

 

What is a healthy dose of skepticism?

 

Good question. Probably somewhere between how much I have and how much you have.

 

Why do you consider my views more extreme? More extreme then whom?

 

What are your sources for disagreeing with me and viewing my beliefs as extreme? What information are you basing this on?

 

 

Because they are? You seem to explicitly believe many lies, conspiracies and operations that are not generally accepted to be true. That doesn't make you wrong, it just makes you more extreme.

 

 

Well, when you consider that FOX news is the network with the highest ratings I'm sure there is a significant part of the population that is being mislead. There are also reports that FOX news contains more inaccuracies (lies?) than CNN and MSNBC...but of course one can spend the effort questioning these reports instead of actually questioning FOX.

 

That's true, though I know many people who watch Fox News fully aware of the enormous slant. In fact, some find it easier to watch when the bias is both explicit and obvious, since it is easier to know where the holes in your information are and the biases of your information than watching another network that pretends it has none. I don't really agree with that point of view, but that's what they'd tell you (because it is what they tell me).

 

You are correct though. You have a huge proportion of people watching Fox and other garbage. You have 35-40% of Republicans polling in favour of an actual fascist. We may disagree on the numbers and extent of ignorance and idiocy, but we won't disagree on the reality that there is a lot of it, both in terms of proportion and actual numbers (and dollars available).

 

 

You seem to make some significant assumptions. You have no idea what information I have obtained. You also seem to assume that when I post a link to something I take everything in the article as absolute truth. I post because I believe some of it to be true and that some of it raises points that could/should be discussed

 

That's true, though I'm mostly arguing your posts and not the content of the actual articles. Any specific arguments have generally been assuming there are reasonable, valid arguments in the articles, but questioning whether their sources or motives have any more validity than the alternative and whether their conclusions really understand the basis of a premise like "follow the money", which is an important issue, but one that could point to a huge number of parties depending on how directly you want to look at it.

 

I am amazed that you don't believe there is any merit in discovering the truth. To me that is what allows people to continue to get away with lies and manipulation.

 

I think that is a phrase that looks nice but is actually meaningless. What allows people to get away with lies and manipulation on the scale you're referring to is power, fear and money. In a society where fame and money rule, and fame and money would be available in huge quantities to anyone who exposed a corrupt government or media organization, there are plenty of reasons for people to chase the truth.

 

Sure, there are tons of potential future investigate journalists and journalism dollars out there publishing cute animal listicles instead because me and my grandmother give that pageviews, but I don't believe that is a significant hinderance to actual truth, which still has a huge audience. And I have said repeatedly that the truth is important - but we discovered the truth when it came to the NSA, which is about as huge and wide-ranging a conspiracy as you can imagine (spying on the world leaders of other countries!?) and what changed? Nothing. Nothing changed, nothing happened, and I'm sure that and comparable programs are happening under a different acronym, authorized by a different secret court, blah blah.

 

 

Some people take "extra steps" in an effort to find the truth and expose lies or inconsistencies while others take "extra steps" to acquire knowledge about baseball or so-and-so's OBP against lefthanded hitters in domes in day games. Some do both. I'm not saying either person is better than the other...different strokes for different folks...but your dismissal of the validity of the extra steps I have taken says more about your belief that the truth doesn't really matter than it says about anything else. I think the truth matters a whole lot. But I can accept that there's a chance I'm wrong about that too.

 

I agree with this in general, though with what my dismissal of the validity of your extra steps means. It presumes that your extra steps are getting closer to something resembling the truth, whereas an important part of my argument is that while I don't know what extra steps YOU have taken, many of the links and information you have presented are so easily open to bias, misinterpretation or outright falsehoods that they'll either actually take you farther from the truth or give you no additional information. I'm sure if we were to really delve in how you acquire and review information, we would probably come closer to agreeing on what is and isn't pertinent information to learn from, but such is the limitation of an online forum.

 

 

Regardless, I won't stop because if what I say results in one person questioning one thing that they would have otherwise accepted or ignored then it's worth it to me.

 

A very important point that is the real basis for our disagreement. And it is a good one, because I don't think you're wrong, it just isn't for me. Pursuing the truth is noble and important, and if you feel that anything (or everything you do) brings you even a tiny bit closer to that, then I'm glad that you use your limited time not being eaten by maggots to do so.

[iBeaver 409]

i don't know if it's what i'd call apathy.

 

 

What power do you have with your truths? What can you do about it other than sit there and believe you may have cracked the code? If it's all a big master plan there's nothing you can do with your knowledge. If you make all of us believe there's still nothing that can be done. It's bigger than all of us id assume. Your linking me to

Reports that say even small town police are covering things up. No one can be trusted. That's not cool.

 

I think I get my "apathy" from one of my in laws. They live in constant fear of what secrets are being hidden from us. They freak out anytime they know we are going to a red wings game because that game will be the one the "terrorists" attack. Going to the mall to see Santa is a huge risk in her mind. She needs to be talked down anytime we tell her what we really are doing in our boring mundane middle American lives. I refuse to live like that. FOX is on the tv in that house all day every day. I refuse to let the media control my feelings like that. That's why I stick to sports and the local (small city) paper to figure out what the corrupt city council is doing each week. I can get the big stuff from you on Twitter or Facebook

 

I will gladly bet that the government isn't going to bust down my door and well...do anything. At all. I will bet anything that the government will not take everyone's guns away from them. Ever. If I felt like it I could search Facebook of people saying Obama was going to put an SS style police force out there and drag us out of our homes and put us all in camps. Still waiting. The guy gave up being president years ago. I'm pretty sure I'll be safe.

 

I know gave to get the kid ready for school and then run errands. So I'm Not avoiding you if I'm not back on for a few hours

[serge 904]

My head might explode reading all that..But such is life..

 

Funny post I saw this morning...Lot of people backing Trump give him credit for building an empire..Meanwhile he didnt really build much as he inherited $200 million and hasnt even beat the index funds...

 

Meanwhile Paris Hilton inherited about $5 million and has built that into conglomerate worth over a $billion(no proof , estimates)...She might be the most succesful reality star out there...Also she turns 35 in February and qualifies to run for President...Something to think about.

 

Oh yes by the way I am a Trump supporter, not necessarily agreeing with him 100 percent of the time, including the ludicrous notion to ban all entry to Muslims into the country.

[serge 904]

Dale I dont want to get into a huge back and forth but I am curious about a couple of things. A lot of what you say poses questions on what we believe to be reality..Its ok to question, but can you sit down and go point by point on what you believe happened in San Bernardino?

 

Did the Illuminati sit down with Obama, Putin and the FBI and went over exactly what was going to happen? Then did they do a presentation to the media led by CNN and FOX to inform the world this is what we want you to report? How many people are in on this? The Police, The FBI, Congress, the President, Justin Trudeau's dog, rest of the world leaders? Where is the cut off of people that are in the know? How come none of this got leaked to average people?

 

Who are these vicious people that plot to kill innocent Americans and people around the world? How many of them are there?

[digitalmonkey 929]

Steve, if enough people stop living in fear and stop doing nothing...any little thing...don't you think that can improve things even a little? Don't you think that's a step in the right direction?

 

Not everyone is in on it...whatever IT is. There are significantly more good people in this world than corrupt ones.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but I know doing nothing, whether living in fear or not, is not the answer.

[mrdannyg 274]

Oh yes by the way I am a Trump supporter, not necessarily agreeing with him 100 percent of the time, including the ludicrous notion to ban all entry to Muslims into the country.

 

This is the dumbest thing you have ever said, and it actually makes me sad to read it. I like to think that when you see polls that people are going to vote for him, it is mostly just people trolling or the small percentage of humans that are actually just vile and hateful. It is terrifying to me that a non-terrible human such as yourself could even consider voting Republican in this election, never mind for Trump.

 

I may or may not be the most open-minded person, but I can see this easily - if you vote Republican in this election, you are probably a bad person. If you vote for Trump, you are a bad person, a stupid person (since his policies will almost certainly be ineffective against actual terrorists and create more terrorists), and you are actively advocating for hate crimes.

 

The only credit you can give Trump is that there is a logical basis that it makes more sense to ban all Muslims, rather than just refugees, since of course it is easier to get into the country to blow something up as a visitor than a refugee, so banning refugees out of concern for that is pretty goddamn stupid.

 

Trump's policies are actually more extreme than 1930's Hitler, which would be bad enough. They've also been becoming more extreme in only the last few months, and he doesn't even have any power yet. If you vote for him, what is the logical end to that position?

[serge 904]

This is the dumbest thing you have ever said, and it actually makes me sad to read it. I like to think that when you see polls that people are going to vote for him, it is mostly just people trolling or the small percentage of humans that are actually just vile and hateful. It is terrifying to me that a non-terrible human such as yourself could even consider voting Republican in this election, never mind for Trump.

 

I may or may not be the most open-minded person, but I can see this easily - if you vote Republican in this election, you are probably a bad person. If you vote for Trump, you are a bad person, a stupid person (since his policies will almost certainly be ineffective against actual terrorists and create more terrorists), and you are actively advocating for hate crimes.

 

The only credit you can give Trump is that there is a logical basis that it makes more sense to ban all Muslims, rather than just refugees, since of course it is easier to get into the country to blow something up as a visitor than a refugee, so banning refugees out of concern for that is pretty goddamn stupid.

 

Trump's policies are actually more extreme than 1930's Hitler, which would be bad enough. They've also been becoming more extreme in only the last few months, and he doesn't even have any power yet. If you vote for him, what is the logical end to that position?

 

Unfortunately I dont have a vote, but my wife does and I will encourage her to vote Republican. Regardless if its Trump, Carson , Rubio or whomever. The Democrats are pieces of scum and are ruining the values that this wonderful nation was built on. Their poster child Hilary Clinton is a liar and a scam artist that has been proven .

 

Saying people who vote Republican is small minded and basically racist and a Hitler supporter, shows you are small minded and basically racist and ignorant yourself. I would never belittle anyone based on their political beliefs, but by you doing it you are the sort of person we have to watch out for and keep out of political office...Hatred is spread by those sort of comments that you are making..

 

The funny thing is you probably havent listened to Donald Trump or any other candidate other than the small news clips you have seen on Twitter..We are glad you dont have a vote.

[mrdannyg 274]

Dale I dont want to get into a huge back and forth but I am curious about a couple of things. A lot of what you say poses questions on what we believe to be reality..Its ok to question, but can you sit down and go point by point on what you believe happened in San Bernardino?

 

Did the Illuminati sit down with Obama, Putin and the FBI and went over exactly what was going to happen? Then did they do a presentation to the media led by CNN and FOX to inform the world this is what we want you to report? How many people are in on this? The Police, The FBI, Congress, the President, Justin Trudeau's dog, rest of the world leaders? Where is the cut off of people that are in the know? How come none of this got leaked to average people?

 

Who are these vicious people that plot to kill innocent Americans and people around the world? How many of them are there?

 

Doesn't have to be all that. Maybe there is a secret government program with 100 or so agents. Only 2 senior people in the FBI know about Each agent's goal is to radicalize a muslim into doing something terrible. So they scout targets and they'll move into the town with them. Maybe they introduce them to guns, maybe they install blocks or hacks onto that computer that filter news, or connect them to an ISIS facebook or twitter account, or make sure they are harassed by the police or at work. It barely ever works because Muslims are inherently non-violent people of course (like most people) but hey, everyone has a breaking point, so once every few years one of these agents succeeds and the Muslim breaks, buys a gun, and shoots people. No one else is "in on it" other than this tiny group (though maybe if some reporter does see something suspicious, there's always the opportunity for them to be encouraged not to look too hard).

 

That's a crazy example without the slightest bit of evidence, but the point is, and the reason I take issue with the "follow the money" mantra, is that sometimes the goal - whether it is fear or money or whatever, can be just the matter of a couple people getting together. Small-town white supremacist cops conspire to write thousands of extra tickets to black people wasn't the work of the Illuminati and FBI and Obama...it was just a few assholes with hate in their hearts who wanted to feel powerful and drive new trucks.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Do you guys realize that most of what you say, is about the other side? Meaning, Republicans are awful racist people, so I will vote Democratic. Democrats are awful people ruining our morals, so I will vote Republican. Does anyone actually like their candidate, and feel like theirs is just better, or are you always assuming you have the lessor of the only 2 evils you can choose from?

 

The funny thing is you probably havent listened to Donald Trump or any other candidate other than the small news clips you have seen on Twitter..

Serge, can you tell us more about what you like about Trump? Im curious what it is that makes you want to vote for him.

[mrdannyg 274]

Unfortunately I dont have a vote, but my wife does and I will encourage her to vote Republican. Regardless if its Trump, Carson , Rubio or whomever. The Democrats are pieces of scum and are ruining the values that this wonderful nation was built on. Their poster child Hilary Clinton is a liar and a scam artist that has been proven .

 

Saying people who vote Republican is small minded and basically racist and a Hitler supporter, shows you are small minded and basically racist and ignorant yourself. I would never belittle anyone based on their political beliefs, but by you doing it you are the sort of person we have to watch out for and keep out of political office...Hatred is spread by those sort of comments that you are making..

 

The funny thing is you probably havent listened to Donald Trump or any other candidate other than the small news clips you have seen on Twitter..We are glad you dont have a vote.

 

That's true, because my beliefs definitely disallow people basic human rights such as marriage or health care, require my country to be governed under a specific religion, and deny residence to UN-certified refugees based on their religion. Oh wait, that's the Republicans.

 

Last I checked, no other Republican candidates were actively pursuing policies like forcing people of a certain religion to self-identity, closing their places of worship, shutting them off from their communities and banning their travel, which is why Trump is the only one I actually compared to Hitler.

 

And I didn't say (or mean to imply) that people who vote Republican are racist or small-minded. But I did say that if they vote for any of the major candidates in this election, then that is true. There is not a single one that, in a horrible race to the bottom, has not spewed policies that are outrageously out of line with any sense of human decency or a fair and safe society.

 

Hatred is not spread by the comments I am making - hatred is spread by people saying "oh I like the tax plan of these hatemongers, so I'll support them and just ignore the hateful stuff".

 

What are the values that the U.S. was built on? Fundamental Christianity? I realize this post may not sound like I'm trying to have a serious conversation, but this is a serious question.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Dale I dont want to get into a huge back and forth but I am curious about a couple of things. A lot of what you say poses questions on what we believe to be reality..Its ok to question, but can you sit down and go point by point on what you believe happened in San Bernardino?

 

Did the Illuminati sit down with Obama, Putin and the FBI and went over exactly what was going to happen? Then did they do a presentation to the media led by CNN and FOX to inform the world this is what we want you to report? How many people are in on this? The Police, The FBI, Congress, the President, Justin Trudeau's dog, rest of the world leaders? Where is the cut off of people that are in the know? How come none of this got leaked to average people?

 

Who are these vicious people that plot to kill innocent Americans and people around the world? How many of them are there?

 

I don't know. I never mentioned the Illuminati though.

 

Did two people of the Muslim faith become radicalized via the Internet, stockpile weapons and pipe bombs, and then shoot people? It's possible. What was their motive? What did they hope to ultimately achieve by doing so?

 

Did the CIA activate two assets in a covert operation designed to strike more fear into the American public and create more hatred toward Muslims? Do you think this is possible? Is there another motive?

 

I suspect one of these scenarios is much more common than you think and one is much less common.

 

 

[mrdannyg 274]

Do you guys realize that most of what you say, is about the other side? Meaning, Republicans are awful racist people, so I will vote Democratic. Democrats are awful people ruining our morals, so I will vote Republican. Does anyone actually like their candidate, and feel like theirs is just better, or are you always assuming you have the lessor of the only 2 evils you can choose from?

 

I should have made it more clear that I actually agree with a lot of the negative stuff on Clinton. I've said before that I thought the email scandal was important enough that she should never have high public office again (which was obviously not an option since the Democrats had no other candidates who could beat any Republican nominee).

 

As a Canadian, I typically get to pick who I like best. Even this election when many of my friends were just saying "anything but Harper" I didn't have that extreme of a view (though he would still have been my fourth choice!). Viewing the current US situation, it would be the lessor of two evils, though that has as much to do with the terrible candidates they have this election as anything. Obama is probably doing terrible things behind the scenes, but many of his actual policies are as close as the US has come in many years to moving in a positive direction. Had I been voting in the days of Obama or Gore or Clinton, it would've been at least closer to "who I like" rather than "who I don't like".

 

 

 

Serge, can you tell us more about what you like about Trump? Im curious what it is that makes you want to vote for him.

 

I'm also curious. It is also a question I should've asked first, and would have if it was about a candidate who wasn't literally advocating to ban an entire religion.

[mrdannyg 274]

I don't know. I never mentioned the Illuminati though.

 

Did two people of the Muslim faith become radicalized via the Internet, stockpile weapons and pipe bombs, and then shoot people? It's possible. What was their motive? What did they hope to ultimately achieve by doing so?

 

Did the CIA activate two assets in a covert operation designed to strike more fear into the American public and create more hatred toward Muslims? Do you think this is possible? Is there another motive?

 

I suspect one of these scenarios is much more common than you think and one is much less common.

 

Let's pretend it was the latter - what did those assets hope to ultimately achieve by putting themselves in a position to get killed?