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Off Topic, Kinda.....


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Do you not think there is a need for a military?

Is it the American troops that you find hard to support or troops of any countries?

What about the nations who generally do not wage war on these levels?

 

The way I look at it, its hard for me to put much of the blame on the guy at the front. And while I agree many wars are for the wrong reasons, sometimes, the military might is needed and maybe if the decisions were just, then the soldiers would be less of an issue for you.

 

I think there is a need for military because there will always be the concern that someone will not play by the rules. The amount of money spent on the military is beyond ridiculous though.

 

I have an issue with any troops that are not acting to defend themselves. If someone is trying to kill you then you have no choice but to defend yourself. Again, it's a fine line though because creating threats so you can defend yourself is not what I'm talking about.

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Some lighthearted talk here plus this will make sure that I can read this again sometime as it's a good story, at least for me. If it wasnt for posting all those apartment stories I would forget almos

I debated posting this, because I might be overdoing this topic this week, but I made a sort of personal promise to myself that I am going to promote more positivity and try to never be negative or pu

Danny.... Thats a great attitude to have, and you will be amazed at the progress Owen can make with that kind of attitude and persistence on your part. On Feb 4, 2003, the diagnosis I got was that

So you believe ALL wars and conflicts are not justified ?

Nope. If the fight is to defend yourself then it is justified. If every military acted under this belief then there'd be no wars would there?

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Matthew Yglesias ‏@mattyglesias 17m17 minutes ago Washington, DC

Striking how little impact the fact that the Paris attackers were neither Syrian nor refugees is having on the Syrian refugee debate.

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No, because the bottom line is you are saving lives. Your job is being hindered but you're still trying to save lives.

 

The bottom line in war is money. Saving lives is a lie.

No. The bottom line is money. All decisions are made based on money, not on saving lives.
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What should we talk about next? How about this "support our troops" bullshit? I'm probably in the minority on this one.

 

I can see what Dale is taking about (I think)

 

People were against the Gulf war but said they support our troops. Which to me is total bs. You can't have it both ways

 

So our troops were just pawns in the bigger fight. Oil

 

 

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Matthew Yglesias ‏@mattyglesias 17m17 minutes ago Washington, DC

Striking how little impact the fact that the Paris attackers were neither Syrian nor refugees is having on the Syrian refugee debate.

 

Well, wouldnt this make sense if people thought the same before AND after the Paris attacks?

I know my thoughts were the same, which I would define as conflicted. Desire to help, with an asterisk about why and how, and who.

 

There is a group of us who play bball every Thurs. Of the 13 or so guys, 4/5 are from Syria. We had a few conversations about this weeks/months ago, long before Paris. As did many others, since this was an issue during the Canadian election.

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I am astounded you don't believe they have or are intentionally creating conflict. I'm curious to hear what others think.

 

IMO. I may be mistaken but America created ISIS by creating the conflict in Iraq. The initial fight was with Afghanistan not Iraq. But we stopped hunting the main target which IMO was warranted for the 9-11 attacks, and created the new conflict with Iraq and Saddam. That in turn made life miserable for innocent people who are now angry for what we did. That's ISIL. These aren't Islamic radicals. They don't know shit about Islam. They are angry people who were put through hell for whatever reason Bush was really there for and now they want to pay the world back.

 

IMO.

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I can see what Dale is taking about (I think)

 

People were against the Gulf war but said they support our troops. Which to me is total bs. You can't have it both ways

 

So our troops were just pawns in the bigger fight. Oil

 

I fell into that bullshot group. I didn't approve of the war. And neither did some of my friends who were fighting in it. But I had to support them because they were just doing their job. They didn't sign the papers to fight, once your in the military you aren't given choices.

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Well, wouldnt this make sense if people thought the same before AND after the Paris attacks?

I know my thoughts were the same, which I would define as conflicted. Desire to help, with an asterisk about why and how, and who.

 

There is a group of us who play bball every Thurs. Of the 13 or so guys, 4/5 are from Syria. We had a few conversations about this weeks/months ago, long before Paris. As did many others, since this was an issue during the Canadian election.

 

only has become a big issue in the US since the Paris attacks

 

I think our views are aligned very much the same. We have to help because it's the humane thing to do but we have to realize that there are going to be some undesirables we let in along with them. I can live with that trade off.

 

Not all cultures are consistent with our Canadian values and we have to not stick our heads in the PC sands and ignore that fact.

 

Most Syrians will actually assimilate into Canadian society quite well and be a net benefit to Canada in the long run. They are mostly well educated and don't have extreme views.

 

One country that I wish the average North American knew more about is Iran. The average Iranian doesn't hate the West or Israel and is highly educated and doesn't support the theocracy that runs their country. I would happily have large numbers of 20 something Iranians immigrate to Canada.

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IMO. I may be mistaken but America created ISIS by creating the conflict in Iraq. The initial fight was with Afghanistan not Iraq. But we stopped hunting the main target which IMO was warranted for the 9-11 attacks, and created the new conflict with Iraq and Saddam. That in turn made life miserable for innocent people who are now angry for what we did. That's ISIL. These aren't Islamic radicals. They don't know shit about Islam. They are angry people who were put through hell for whatever reason Bush was really there for and now they want to pay the world back.

 

IMO.

 

I also agree with your opinion

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IMO. I may be mistaken but America created ISIS by creating the conflict in Iraq. The initial fight was with Afghanistan not Iraq. But we stopped hunting the main target which IMO was warranted for the 9-11 attacks, and created the new conflict with Iraq and Saddam. That in turn made life miserable for innocent people who are now angry for what we did. That's ISIL. These aren't Islamic radicals. They don't know shit about Islam. They are angry people who were put through hell for whatever reason Bush was really there for and now they want to pay the world back.

 

IMO.

 

ISIS is more a function of the War that is going on within Islam.

 

When you had strongmen dictators like Ghaddafi, Sadam Hussein and bashar al-assad keeping the extreme elements under control they were marginalized.

 

One of the things that actually led to the Syrian civil war was a massive drought brought about because of climate change

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/03/150302-syria-war-climate-change-drought/

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I guess for me a big part of it is not wanting to give up on the idea of the greater good. I WANT to believe that people are good. I WANT to believe that people are noble, and given the choice will do the right thing. There's a cynicism afoot these days that is very unsettling to me. So tough to look at my 11 year old with fear in his eyes, as he asks about Paris. I want a better world, and even though my eyes will always be open, sometimes I want to close them and imagine a better world.

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I guess for me a big part of it is not wanting to give up on the idea of the greater good. I WANT to believe that people are good. I WANT to believe that people are noble, and given the choice will do the right thing. There's a cynicism afoot these days that is very unsettling to me. So tough to look at my 11 year old with fear in his eyes, as he asks about Paris. I want a better world, and even though my eyes will always be open, sometimes I want to close them and imagine a better world.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that today is the best time in the history of our planet for the greatest number of people.

 

There has always been War, and pestilence and famine. People and groups of people are capable of both great good and great evil.

 

My ex wife's parents for example lived through the great Chinese famine from 59-61 where probably 30 million people staved to death in the part of China where they lived.

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One thing to keep in mind is that today is the best time in the history of our planet for the greatest number of people.

 

I would agree with this, when you look at the big picture.

To me, its the onslaught of technology that is bringing these things to us, and bombarding us with it.

 

However Bob, I would sort of disagree with you on the Iranian opinion. While I would agree many are "westernized", and may assimilate/blend in well, in my experience, there is still an anti-semitic undercurrent amongst most Iranians.

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I would agree with this, when you look at the big picture.

To me, its the onslaught of technology that is bringing these things to us, and bombarding us with it.

 

However Bob, I would sort of disagree with you on the Iranian opinion. While I would agree many are "westernized", and may assimilate/blend in well, in my experience, there is still an anti-semitic undercurrent amongst most Iranians.

 

you're probably right on the anti-semitic Iranians. Means they will fit in well on most Canadian university campuses.

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Exactly the same as a soldier.

 

The soldier believes s/he's saving the world or their country when it's simply not true. I guess it all comes back to my belief that they're misguided and that does not make me want to support the troops because I believe that by supporting the troops I am supporting the cause. I can understand your point that they are acting bravely for something they believe, but I can't get past the fact that they are a part of the problem.

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The soldier believes s/he's saving the world or their country when it's simply not true. I guess it all comes back to my belief that they're misguided and that does not make me want to support the troops because I believe that by supporting the troops I am supporting the cause. I can understand your point that they are acting bravely for something they believe, but I can't get past the fact that they are a part of the problem.

I understand your point. I guess part of a bigger philosophical discussion. Sort of in the John Stuart Mill 'On Liberty' vein. We all have to surrender our individual power to the government in the understanding that anything less is anarchy. It's good that we've come a long way from the days of Royal Decree to a point where sharp minds question our governments on a daily basis. But, in the end, we surrender that individual power that becomes part of the governments power. And when it comes to that, is today's soldier any less noble than my grandfather, who fought with The Royal Scots in WW I, was wounded twice and gassed? It turns out that the government that sent him to the trenches in that war was right. The government that sent troops to Iraq and Vietnam is wrong. But the individual soldier doesn't make that distinction.
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IMO. I may be mistaken but America created ISIS by creating the conflict in Iraq. The initial fight was with Afghanistan not Iraq. But we stopped hunting the main target which IMO was warranted for the 9-11 attacks, and created the new conflict with Iraq and Saddam. That in turn made life miserable for innocent people who are now angry for what we did. That's ISIL. These aren't Islamic radicals. They don't know shit about Islam. They are angry people who were put through hell for whatever reason Bush was really there for and now they want to pay the world back.

 

IMO.

 

We disagree on who the main target for 911 should have been.

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Danny, Im going to ask this like an assh*le, so excuse me beforehand.

 

How do you know about this quote of yours? What do you actually know about the screening, as in, what do they look for, and what are they supposed to look for?

 

1. Is it because you have experience with the refugee process, yourself, your family, or friends/associates?

2. Or did you read about the process, reading each part of Canadas immigration law, and also somehow knowing the process by which the Liberals are going to screen?

3. Or did you read an article in a paper once or twice?

4. Or is it just an opinion stated as fact?

 

Which applies?

 

Because I gotta tell you, the way you post makes you sound like an expert in the field of refugee and immigration law, and the rest of us with "underlying racism".

I can appreciate a post like Dales, because while him and I disagree on some points, we at least allow for the possibility of another opinion, and the possibility of each of our opinions being wrong. You sound like someone who is just telling others they dont know the facts, which may be true, but you never have to back it up here, right?

 

And fyi, part of the election issues was that the Liberals were planning on getting rid of part of that UN screening.

 

I tend to think of myself as left wing, but some of you guys sound like a puppet of the left sometimes, I never ever see you on the side of anything but.

A conservative premier says he has concerns about the screening process being eliminated, and the other side quickly yells "RACIST!". This left-right is so bullsh*t.

 

I wasn't avoiding this post and didn't think you sounded like an *******! My response is delayed because I've had someone sitting over my shoulder at work the last few days and because you guys write a lot.

 

I'm not a good writer, so I often make implications that I don't mean. You can generally assume that unless I'm citing something specific, I don't mean what I'm saying to be taken as factual, but something that might better be described as an opinion based on specific sources. I have actually done a decent amount of reading on immigration law lately (a family member is working on an international adoption), but as I'm not a lawyer, my opinion on the actual legal aspects or texts would be meaningless.

 

You did sound like a bit of an ******* with option 3, because it kind of implies there isn't much of a difference between option 3 and option 4. Option 3 might mean actually reading articles, references or first-hand accounts, as opposed to forming opinions based on headlines and scare tactics. The kind of opinion that makes someone think for the first time 'we should reconsider Syrian refugees' after an attack by people with Middle Eastern-sounding names who are French and Belgian citizens.

 

I do think you're misconstruing me by suggesting I make myself sound like an expert. When I say something like 'people should read up on the refugee process' I can see how it could make it sound like I'm trying to come off like an expert myself, but I'd hope that since we all know that I'm not an immigration lawyer, that I actually mean that much more plainly...if I felt like I could give them an expert opinion, I'd just give it to them rather than telling them to go read themselves!

 

As for being a puppet of the left, it's kind of an unnecessary insult. I think the left can certainly be pedantic at times - it is amazing how many people will crawl over each other to jump on a quote from Huckabee or something because it is easy and obvious while avoiding the kind of nuanced discussion that would actually address concerns of intelligent disagreements. And I'm sure there were plenty of people who yelled racist at a Conservative Premier for assuming he wanted the change to better keep out Middle Eastern people without ever actually reading what he said in context or considering if the policies had merit. But to suggest that some of us on this forum are that way seems to be projecting a bit of what you see on twitter or facebook.

 

How can you not support our troops. This topic is totally different in U.S. Than Canada. In 35 years in Canada I can't recall more than 1 or 2 people I was closely involved with in the military. Here we have many friends and relatives either currently or ex military.

 

I have much respect and admiration for what they have done and sacrificed.

 

I know a lot of people in the military (mainly Navy out here) - the significant majority went into it because it was the simplest and fastest way to earn a solid income with the maximum level of education they had interest in achieving. They had little or no sense of duty, patriotism or unselfish intentions. Some of them had incredible intentions, and some who maybe didn't were changed by the experience in a positive way. I have respect and admiration for people who willingly sacrified for what they believe to be a good and important cause, even if I don't fully agree with the cause and/or their specific actions. But I don't just support the troops because many of them were just lazy or power-hungry teenagers looking to make money or use guns or put on a uniform and expect respect. And while I would support any individual "troop" the phrase "support the troops" seems specifically designed to support the entire operation, which implies a support of how they are used. It's almost like you are forced to choose between fully supporting them in every way (if you stand behind our troops) or being a cowardly traitor who wants your neighbour's sons to die (feel free to stand in front of them).

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Two interesting things I read today about refugees and terrorists.

 

In the US 859,629 refugees admitted since 2001 and only 3 have been convicted of planning a terrorist attack.

 

The terrorists that attacked Paris were not refugees or Syrian refugees but European citizens.

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