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How can you not support our troops. This topic is totally different in U.S. Than Canada. In 35 years in Canada I can't recall more than 1 or 2 people I was closely involved with in the military. Here we have many friends and relatives either currently or ex military.

 

I have much respect and admiration for what they have done and sacrificed.

 

You have great respect and admiration for them killing others?

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You have great respect and admiration for them killing others?

 

Defending our country(ies) yes.

 

Police kill people too, to serve and protect us. I'm not sure what you mean.

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You put your life on the line! And you do it without killing anyone so some rich bastards can get richer.

Well, the question wasn't do I support armies or war. The question was, do I support the troops. The simple answer is, if someone volunteers to put themselves in harms way for altruistic reasons, it doesn't matter if the war is greedy or shitty or stupid. It matters that they did what they thought was the right thing and put on a uniform. So they have my support. And respect.

Vietnam was a horrible, unnecessary, politcial war. 58,000 soldiers died there from the US. Some drafted, some volunteered. But none of them chose the war. Same as the Gulf Wars. We all know it was about oil and money. But that wasn't the thinking of the troops that went over there and died. They thought they were doing the right thing for their country.

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Defending our country(ies) yes.

 

Police kill people too, to serve and protect us. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

What are the defending the country from?

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Well, the question wasn't do I support armies or war. The question was, do I support the troops. The simple answer is, if someone volunteers to put themselves in harms way for altruistic reasons, it doesn't matter if the war is greedy or shitty or stupid. It matters that they did what they thought was the right thing and put on a uniform. So they have my support. And respect.

Vietnam was a horrible, unnecessary, politcial war. 58,000 soldiers died there from the US. Some drafted, some volunteered. But none of them chose the war. Same as the Gulf Wars. We all know it was about oil and money. But that wasn't the thinking of the troops that went over there and died. They thought they were doing the right thing for their country.

 

Fair enough.

 

If they think they were doing the right thing but actually aren't, isn't supporting the troops the same as supporting an unjust cause? Aren't they basically pawns being manipulated?

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What are the defending the country from?

 

I think if you argue the merits of war, that's a different issue.

 

What do you think would happen if the next president of the United States said we are dismantling our military?

 

It would be a pretty ugly and sad world we would live in. Where evil people and terrorists attack freely.

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I think if you argue the merits of war, that's a different issue.

 

What do you think would happen if the next president of the United States said we are dismantling our military?

 

It would be a pretty ugly and sad world we would live in. Where evil people and terrorists attack freely.

 

There's a significant gap between dismantling the military and intentionally creating conflict.

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"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

~ Hermann Goering

 

 

 

 

 

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There's a significant gap between dismantling the military and intentionally creating conflict.

 

Sure. I guess we don't agree on that point. I don't believe the U.S. Is intentionally creating conflict. They might more motivated to be involved with certain issues but as a whole they aren't creating conflict IMO m

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Sure. I guess we don't agree on that point. I don't believe the U.S. Is intentionally creating conflict. They might more motivated to be involved with certain issues but as a whole they aren't creating conflict IMO m

 

I am astounded you don't believe they have or are intentionally creating conflict. I'm curious to hear what others think.

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Fair enough.

 

If they think they were doing the right thing but actually aren't, isn't supporting the troops the same as supporting an unjust cause? Aren't they basically pawns being manipulated?

You keep crossing over between the conflict and the ideology and the individual. I believe most soldiers in uniform in North America (and there are of course exceptions) sign up because they believe in their country and want to protect and defend the people there. That is noble. If some dickwad in Washington chooses to send them to Afghanistan on the pretext of fighting terrorism in whats really a war over oil, then it's not on them. People spitting on vets coming home from Vietnam and calling them baby killers was deplorable. As was the conflict they were fighting in. Two different things. I support the soldier. Not the army. Not the country. Not the conflict. Not the dogma. The individual.
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I am astounded you don't believe they have or are intentionally creating conflict. I'm curious to hear what others think.

 

ABSO-****ING-LUTELY they create conflict.

 

Whether they are involved, or just creating two sides of a conflict and sitting back and selling them the guns. It dont matter, nothing profits like war.

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You keep crossing over between the conflict and the ideology and the individual. I believe most soldiers in uniform in North America (and there are of course exceptions) sign up because they believe in their country and want to protect and defend the people there. That is noble. If some dickwad in Washington chooses to send them to Afghanistan on the pretext of fighting terrorism in whats really a war over oil, then it's not on them. People spitting on vets coming home from Vietnam and calling them baby killers was deplorable. As was the conflict they were fighting in. Two different things. I support the soldier. Not the army. Not the country. Not the conflict. Not the dogma. The individual.

 

I guess I cross over because it's a fine line.

 

Donald Trump says Mexicans in America are a problem. He really believes this. Is there nobility if he starts a movement to rid the US of all Mexicans? What if he convinces others that this is a just cause and they help him by putting their lives on the line to rid the country of what they truly believe is a threat? Would you support Trump's Troops?

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Im confused about something, I might just not know what Im talking about .....arent most/all of the troops today paid for their service?

Isnt this a "job" in a sense? (I realize to some this is a job they HAVE to take in a socio-economic sense)

 

I mean, to me, Im way too chicken sh*t to do that job, and obv these men+women do things I dont have the stomach for, but is this not a choice they make today, and one that they get paid for? Im not talking about the Vietnam war or anything with a draft, obv.

 

For sure they dont get paid enough, and obv they dont get what they deserve when they come back home, but really, shouldnt we be supporting our police and firemen if the thing is that we dont pay enough for people who risk their life in their jobs?

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I guess I cross over because it's a fine line.

 

Donald Trump says Mexicans in America are a problem. He really believes this. Is there nobility if he starts a movement to rid the US of all Mexicans? What if he convinces others that this is a just cause and they help him by putting their lives on the line to rid the country of what they truly believe is a threat? Would you support Trump's Troops?

I would hold the soldiers blameless. Did they make the decision? Did they issue the orders? Now, if Trump ordered them to shoot all mexican children on sight, you have a moral issue that requires a decision by the soldier: Treason, or war crime.

Don't get me wrong, Dale. I'm anti-war, anti-army, anti-conflict. Like you, I believe most wars or actions are the result of people making decisions to benefit themselves, usually financially. So I would be happy if there was no need for soldiers at all. But, at the end of the day, someone putting on a uniform and risking their life for what they believe is the greater good is a noble intention, and warrants respect.

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Much like left wing propaganda lot of views that some have against war is very cynical and narrow minded.

 

Also Donald Trump doesn't want to get rid of all Mexicans. That's ludicrous. He wants to get rid of illegal Mexicans.

 

Which in theory makes great sense.

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Im confused about something, I might just not know what Im talking about .....arent most/all of the troops today paid for their service?

Isnt this a "job" in a sense? (I realize to some this is a job they HAVE to take in a socio-economic sense)

 

I mean, to me, Im way too chicken sh*t to do that job, and obv these men+women do things I dont have the stomach for, but is this not a choice they make today, and one that they get paid for? Im not talking about the Vietnam war or anything with a draft, obv.

 

For sure they dont get paid enough, and obv they dont get what they deserve when they come back home, but really, shouldnt we be supporting our police and firemen if the thing is that we dont pay enough for people who risk their life in their jobs?

Maybe that's a good place to take the conversation. I signed up for a job. I do it because it's a good job, good benefits, and, most importantly, it gives me something to feel good about. Now, when I have to go into a burning house, I'm not thinking about the job or the salary or who ordered me to be on duty or who set the fire. I'm thinking about my kids, and doing my job well so I can go home in the morning and see them. And what makes my feet move forward in those situations is the thought that there may be someone else's kid inside that house. And I hope that (well, i really hope it NEVER comes to it) but if it comes to it, there's someone else somewhere that would do the same for my family.

And there's no difference between putting on my uniform or a soldiers uniform.

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And there's no difference between putting on my uniform or a soldiers uniform.

 

But there is. Your cause is just. They only believe their cause is just.

 

I guess I have trouble supporting misguided individuals fighting a lie.

 

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But there is. Your cause is just. They only believe their cause is just.

 

I guess I have trouble supporting misguided individuals fighting a lie.

Do you know why fire departments are the size they are? In order to prevent property loss. It's mandated by insurance companies. And it's all based on property loss. Not loss of life. They can and have instituted changes that actually increase the chance of loss of life because there's no increased property loss cost. It's wrong. So should I hang it up because of that?
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Do you know why fire departments are the size they are? In order to prevent property loss. It's mandated by insurance companies. And it's all based on property loss. Not loss of life. They can and have instituted changes that actually increase the chance of loss of life because there's no increased property loss cost. It's wrong. So should I hang it up because of that?

 

No, because the bottom line is you are saving lives. Your job is being hindered but you're still trying to save lives.

 

The bottom line in war is money. Saving lives is a lie.

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I guess I have trouble supporting misguided individuals fighting a lie.

 

Do you not think there is a need for a military?

Is it the American troops that you find hard to support or troops of any countries?

What about the nations who generally do not wage war on these levels?

 

The way I look at it, its hard for me to put much of the blame on the guy at the front. And while I agree many wars are for the wrong reasons, sometimes, the military might is needed and maybe if the decisions were just, then the soldiers would be less of an issue for you.

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