Off Topic, Kinda.....

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I know it's a sensitive topic and of course you should care but the reality is that what is happening to the Armenians in Kessab is while tragic for them fairly minor in comparison to what is happening elsewhere in parts of Syria. Caring doesn't mean lying about what is happening which has been the case by some exaggerating it and putting up false pictures etc and they are doing it for political reasons.

 

Civil wars are often the worst kind because they end up being about ethnic identification and they are never easily resolved.

 

And no, people in a town being forced to move because of their ethnicity while tragic is not genocide. If you use that definition of genocide then there are literally dozens of cases of genocide going on every year around the World.

[serge 904]

Here is a great article on what is happening and what isnt happening in Kessab...Basically illustrates my point more eloquently..

 

Bob is correct..The real tragedy here is the victims of this war

 

http://www.ianyanmag.com/2014/04/02/dissecting-kessab-what-is-and-isnt-happening-in-the-historical-armenian-town/

[pezeveng 207]

thats the definition that was created by the UN after world war 2.

 

Lemkin defined genocide as follows: "Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups." The preamble to the CPPCG states that instances of genocide have taken place throughout history,^[4] but it was not until Raphael Lemkin coined the term and the prosecution of perpetrators of the Holocaust at the Nuremberg trials that the United Nations agreed to the CPPCG which defined the crime of genocide under international law.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Here is a great article on what is happening and what isnt happening in Kessab...Basically illustrates my point more eloquently..

 

Bob is correct..The real tragedy here is the victims of this war

 

http://www.ianyanmag...-armenian-town/

 

good article, I'm going to quote the last paragraph below.

 

Syria is only going to get worse I'm afraid and probably the best thing that the Armenian community can do for their kin there is to help get them out of the war zone to a safer place. Where that safer place is I don't know.

 

 

So what do we take away from all of this? The facts are that something very terrible happened in Kessab – but something very terrible has been happening in Syria for years, and everyone – regardless of ethnic background or religion- is a victim. For an Armenian diaspora spread across the world partly due to the first what is widely acknowledged as the first modern genocide, this stirs deep, painful memories. This is especially compounded by Turkey’s continuous, almost 100 year denial of this pain and the historical significance Kessab holds for Armenians. However, pointing out facts and separating them from fiction is not just important, it is crucial. It is also very difficult during a time when getting information out of a particular country is near impossible. But highly emotionally charged hysteria prompted by incorrect news and photos is harmful. Before you post something, double check to make sure where it’s coming from. Before you share a photo, ask yourself what the origin of it might be. It’s pretty simple: Google Images allows you to backtrack the source of a photo by uploading it using the little camera icon. Use it. Think like a journalist, not a bystander, and question everything.

[GWCGWC 83]

Why do guys identify as Armenian and not Canadian? How many generations removed are you from living in Eurasia(?)...0,1,2?

 

 

 

Not sure how military action works, but how is this allowed to go on? Why cant the UN step in...Why cant Obama say lets go in and stop these people...

 

I'm not sure the U.S. would get involved with the Syrian conflict even if genocide was taking place.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Why do guys identify as Armenian and not Canadian? How many generations removed are you from living in Eurasia(?)...0,1,2?

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure the U.S. would get involved with the Syrian conflict even if genocide was taking place.

 

As somebody born in Canada from an English Mother and Polish Father who has grown up with friends born in every part of the World here in Canada (including many Boudakians and Katcherians) we encourage people to identify with both. Serge is both Armenian and Canadian.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I know it's a sensitive topic and of course you should care but the reality is that what is happening to the Armenians in Kessab is while tragic for them fairly minor in comparison to what is happening elsewhere in parts of Syria.

If you are going to quantify pain and suffering, I would say to you shouldn't even begin to talk about Syria, but look at elsewhere in the world.

If someone kills 1000 people in Africa, none of you will notice/care. One cop gets shot in Brampton and the whole city is under seige+talking about gun control. We as humans care about the things we can relate to, we don't accept all suffering as equal.

 

 

Caring doesn't mean lying about what is happening which has been the case by some exaggerating it and putting up false pictures etc and they are doing it for political reasons.

I don't think there is anyone here who is advocating lying or using fake pictures. I would think what you are saying would be a given amongst us.

[serge 904]

Why do guys identify as Armenian and not Canadian? How many generations removed are you from living in Eurasia(?)...0,1,2?

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure the U.S. would get involved with the Syrian conflict even if genocide was taking place.

 

Thats a good question..A question that everyone might answer differently..

 

I am greatful for my country of citizenship..I love Canada and the freedoms that it has afforded me and my family..My situation is a little different than most..I consider myself Armenian first...However I was born in Istanbul, Turkey and my parents immigrated to Canada in 1980 when I was 7 years old...We left Turkey suddenly as back in the 1970s and 80s the situation vs Armenians wasnt great...Things have changed a lot now, for the better, but back then my dad as a succesful Armenian doctor was threatened..Literally death threats and threats to kidnap me..

 

Armenian is my culture , my nationality...Its what my values are based on...I am Armenian first than I am Canadian..That might hurt some Canadians feelings, but I am just as proud of my Canadian Citizenship as the rest of my friends that are Canadian..

 

I think its a bit different in the States..You may get a different answer if you polled Armenians there..Especially the ones that immigrated there early in Fresno California..Which boasts roughly a 10% Armenian population , and the whole state of California is about a million Armenians.

 

We are a different nationality..Of the 11 million Armenians in the world, 8 million live outside the country of Armenia.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Why do guys identify as Armenian and not Canadian? How many generations removed are you from living in Eurasia(?)...0,1,2?

 

Serge and I both were born there.

 

I thank god for Canada, and I am Canadian first and foremost. I am a Canadian-Armenian in every sense, because I recognize what this country has given me and my family. However, I feel a bond towards my background that goes beyond geography.

 

With all due respect, most Americans+Canadians think of their background....never. The context of background is usually based in geographical terms. For us, we were killed and lost our "geography", so we have an attachment to our ancestors and what they had to fight for that goes beyond leaving a homeland because of money. We all have too many horrific stories in our lives, and that sort of binds us if you will. Unfortunately, just like every other human being, we fck it all up constantly with politics, infighting and whatever else. We currently suck at getting our sh*t together.

 

(That sounds a lot stronger than was intended, I am actually not as fervent as all that, but I will defend my fellow Armenians and our history. I was much more involved in the community in my youth, and due to many reasons, now I just watch from afar)

 

Also, I think of all people as essentially the same. Whatever good there is in an Armenian, probably exists in every culture, and same goes for the bad. In the end, we are all just human beings, changed by the environment we are born into.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Interesting how Serge and I answered the same question differently, but I think actually with similar values.

[serge 904]

What a sad commentary on our culture where the most famous Armenian is Kim Kardashian and not Cher...

 

Cher is actually a talented singer and icon..

 

Kim K is well....we dont know...

[FCP Bob 1,312]

If you are going to quantify pain and suffering, I would say to you shouldn't even begin to talk about Syria, but look at elsewhere in the world.

If someone kills 1000 people in Africa, none of you will notice/care. One cop gets shot in Brampton and the whole city is under seige+talking about gun control. We as humans care about the things we can relate to, we don't accept all suffering as equal.

 

 

 

I don't think there is anyone here who is advocating lying or using fake pictures. I would think what you are saying would be a given amongst us.

 

I don't think we are really differing. Of course you should care and it's human nature that you care more about what happens to people you identify with. What I have a problem with is people lying and exaggerating to whip up emotions. Those sort of actions historically have lead directly to the ethnic tensions and hatreds that have taken millions of lives in the past.

 

Syria is a total shit show and at the moment is the worst place on Earth and there just isn't going to be a nice end to this. Even if the fighting stops the suffering and tensions and hatreds are going to go on for a very long time.

[serge 904]

Interesting how Serge and I answered the same question differently, but I think actually with similar values.

 

yes totally....This question comes up ...You are on a beach in the Caribbean with your family..Someone comes up to you and says where are you from?

 

Rarely would I say I am Armenian first...We always say we are from Toronto Canada...Then if the conversation gets involved you tell them you are Armenian born in Turkey...

 

Our situation is extremely complicated in my family..

 

My wife is Armenian, American...Born in Toledo, grew up in Fresno and now for the past 14 years lives in Toronto Canada....I am born in Turkey, both my kids are born in Toronto(Scarborough) , we live in Toronto, sort of, actually Pickering...

 

So one simple question on a beach can turn into a long conversation if you approach my family..

[FCP Bob 1,312]

 

Also, I think of all people as essentially the same. Whatever good there is in an Armenian, probably exists in every culture, and same goes for the bad. In the end, we are all just human beings, changed by the environment we are born into.

 

I totally agree with this. All people are capable of tremendous good and tremendous evil as well.

 

It's why I so hate the results of ethnic identification throughout history. Us vs them has caused more harm and death than anything I can think of. It's why we are so lucky to be here in Canada. Those people living in Syria have no good options open to them. They can live in safety or they can live in their historic homeland. Unfortunately at the moment they can't do both.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

What a sad commentary on our culture where the most famous Armenian is Kim Kardashian and not Cher...

 

Cher is actually a talented singer and icon..

 

Kim K is well....we dont know...

 

Sorry, I wish it was between neither.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I totally agree with this. All people are capable of tremendous good and tremendous evil as well.

 

It's why I so hate the results of ethnic identification throughout history. Us vs them has caused more harm and death than anything I can think of. It's why we are so lucky to be here in Canada. Those people living in Syria have no good options open to them. They can live in safety or they can live in their historic homeland. Unfortunately at the moment they can't do both.

 

Throw religion into this as well while you're at.

 

I don't have an issue with people who are religious, in fact, some that I know I envy and am impressed by the peace and spirituality it gives them, by the hope they spread and the kindness with which they lead their lives. Its inspiring.

But so many others have used it to create so much evil and suffering in the world, now religion might as well be a 4 letter word.

[serge 904]

Sorry, I wish it was between neither.

 

Been reading the Steve Jobs biography..Its a real stretch, but he was adopted by an Armenian mom..

 

Andre Agassi--Getting too old for the young kids

 

Charles Aznavour---My dads hero

 

Zach Bogosian-- for the hockey crowd

 

Raffi---singer..

 

There are several others..Unfortunately no matter how we cut it, its Kim Kardashian right now...

[Zach6668 513]

IMO, you should be free to identify yourself as whatever you'd like.

 

If you feel a strong bond to your Armenian heritage, than by all means, go for it.

 

If you, for whatever reasons, don't feel a strong connection to your heritage, or you're so far removed from the immigration of your family or whatever, and you want to identify as Canadian, by all means...

 

I call myself Icelandic sometimes, which is like 1/4 true. It's the most interesting part of my lineage. I've lso got some English and Scottish somewhere (MacKechnie, Henderson, Mitchell, Asmundson were my grandparents' surnames).

 

However, I don't really identify with any of those in any way, so I would identify myself as a Canadian.

[Zach6668 513]

I don't know if this is entirely true, but from the TV shows I've seen, it seems like in the USA, when you come over you're supposed to identify has an American first before anything else. Maybe that's the expectation in Canada too, I don't know, I'm so far removed from any sort of immigration culture that I have no idea, personally.

 

I would rather we promote inclusion of all sorts of origins and ethnicity than to try to merge everyone into one single identifier, though.

[serge 904]

IMO, you should be free to identify yourself as whatever you'd like.

 

If you feel a strong bond to your Armenian heritage, than by all means, go for it.

 

If you, for whatever reasons, don't feel a strong connection to your heritage, or you're so far removed from the immigration of your family or whatever, and you want to identify as Canadian, by all means...

 

I call myself Icelandic sometimes, which is like 1/4 true. It's the most interesting part of my lineage. I've lso got some English and Scottish somewhere (MacKechnie, Henderson, Mitchell, Asmundson were my grandparents' surnames).

 

However, I don't really identify with any of those in any way, so I would identify myself as a Canadian.

 

very true...Canada relatively is such a young country , we are all immigrants from somewhere...You have an interesting lineage...Icelandic is interesting and cool

[Zach6668 513]

I HAVE been to the annual Icelandic festival in Gimli, MB, and I've eaten a lot of vínarterta when I would go back to Winnipeg, so I guess I celebrate my history a little bit. I don't think of it a lot, though.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I don't know if this is entirely true, but from the TV shows I've seen, it seems like in the USA, when you come over you're supposed to identify has an American first before anything else. Maybe that's the expectation in Canada too, I don't know, I'm so far removed from any sort of immigration culture that I have no idea, personally.

 

I would rather we promote inclusion of all sorts of origins and ethnicity than to try to merge everyone into one single identifier, though.

 

I could be wrong, but for me, its always been that the US is more of a RA-RA-RA #USA #1 kind of place, whereas here in Canada, we have more of an inferiority complex and dont wave our flags every day. There is just more nationalistic pride in the US, and not as much here. Its kind of what makes America great, until people turn it into Us vs Them, and then they become the acch*les that the world perceives them as.

[Babying 613]

Born and raised in Toronto. I consider myself Canadian

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

IMO, you should be free to identify yourself as whatever you'd like.

 

I tend to agree with you, but it bothers me that too many Armenians talk about going back "home" and talk so glowingly about back there, and dismiss all the opportunity this country has given them. I dont know if other immigrants talk like this too, I only know the Armos, but the ones that do bother me.

 

A friend of mine is 2nd generation Italian. Seriously, who doesnt love Italy? Who wouldnt want to live there?

And he is as Italian as it gets too, if you met him, and talked to him, you'd soon realize his whole life is surrounded by Italians.

Then one day, we discussed backgrounds, and before I had a chance to say anything, he jumped in with "Canadian, first and foremost". I was so stunned, so many Italians so proud to be called Italian. But as he put it, he realizes Canada gave him an opportunity, and now its giving him an opportunity to raise a disabled son that many other places would not.

Sometimes, you just have to recognize whats given to you, and realize there is a whole world out there that has nothing in comparison.

 

(wow Im really preaching today. sorry!)

[pezeveng 207]

Been reading the Steve Jobs biography..Its a real stretch, but he was adopted by an Armenian mom..

 

Andre Agassi--Getting too old for the young kids

 

Charles Aznavour---My dads hero

 

Zach Bogosian-- for the hockey crowd

 

Raffi---singer..

 

There are several others..Unfortunately no matter how we cut it, its Kim Kardashian right now...

 

Kirk Kerkorian is always top of my list when people ask.

 

As far as my my heritage or nationality I was born in Lebanon but could't care less my grandmother was born in Van present day Turkey but at one point it was considered part of Armenia.

 

When people ask I always say Canadian, than they say no where did you grow up I say "Wilson and Bathurst".