Diamonds

[navybuttons 15]

So let's say that

I want to be flipping marginally better than my opponent on average, while also throwing as close to the mean of cards I am going to possibly get in my starting hands, 8.

 

let's say this is your strategy for flipping from the SB on 1st.

 

what does your BB strategy for flipping on 2nd look like? Obviously, it's going to depend on SB's upcard and action on 1st. But generally.

 

Like I said before, I think highest card on 1st and lowest card on 2nd is going to have the highest confidence although I'm broadly using mixed strategies.

[Cha! Cha! 628]

I wonder how many pages this thread will go before I understand what's going on.

 

I'm thinking all the pages.

[GWCGWC 83]

I pretty much love this thread.

 

This game is ridiculously complicated.

 

Aren't considerations for the first flip, assuming we continue, predicated on what we want to flip on second if we don't connect with the forth card?

 

I can't imagine how deep you fellas will get when the diamonds come, full pot sized betting and the positional flip.

[navybuttons 15]

"taking poker personally" - if i am playing you at poker it will feel to you like i'm making it personal.

 

here come some diamonds...

 

it is. I personally am trying to beat personally you. I'm trying to read your mind. It's extremely personal.

 

oh those diamonds...

 

and, by the way, i love you.

 

those diamonds?

 

my best friend taught me that.

 

oh... those diamonds.

[navybuttons 15]

I pretty much love this thread.

 

:-)

 

Aren't considerations for the first flip, assuming we continue, predicated on what we want to flip on second if we don't connect with the forth card?

 

oh, absolutely.

[navybuttons 15]

i was playing in a game and the following occurred:

 

i was forced to tell a man "no" so that he knew that if he insulted me in such form again i was going to take a physical action beyond his capabilities.

 

he later told a player from another table that he'd been drinking lean.

 

on my drive home i felt so sorry for this man.

 

"maximum exploitation" - to derive the highest rate of exploitation we determine where and how our opponents strategy differs from game theory optimal (GTO). The solution in 1s and 0s.

 

If I'm the SB with XXX and I flip at random, and raise/call every time. how does your flip on 2nd maximally exploit me?

[navybuttons 15]

here come the diamonds...

[MinhLyFan 1]

In the BB I, again, want to be flipping cards that are going to be the best for my range and again closest to the mean. I want to create a strategy that can be played most often in order to hide as much information about the actual strength of my hand as possible. But of course it will be in reactance to my opponents throws, making sure I am creating as much reverse polarity as possible.

 

If you are saying that you raise call on just first, I am going to still be playing a similar style, because if you are always going to continue, it is still VERY important to keep my hand hidden. plus, I am going to need to have at least some apparent equity vs. all your hands. As such, I am sure I am going to be throwing a little higher off the line, but not much. This should get you into as many situations as possible where you have little information and a weaker hand on average than I.

 

However, I will not be 3betting for balance nearly as often and much more often for value. Additionally, I will be 3betting lighter for value, as well as betting the next streets lighter and more protectively. Additionally, a much bigger part of my range will become semi bluffs vs your range because of my last adjustment. As a result of these adjustments, my checking ranges will have narrowed considerably and I will have to balance appropriately within that range.

 

This should put you in the most number of unprofitable, most difficult situations as possible, while allowing me to maintain balance vs your range and not be exploited later in the hands.

[navybuttons 15]

oh those diamonds?

 

nh suh.

[navybuttons 15]

"table presence" - how players respond to you being seated at the same poker table as them.

 

ideal is when players make mistakes against one another because your presence is so strong. when you are new to a casino and you have the guy who "knows" he's the best in the place spew bets into another player because he's seated next to you, well, teach that in a training video.

[navybuttons 15]

but i call.

 

let's say i flip randomly on 2nd from the SB. But my first flip was an ace and you are flipping at a huge disadvantage to a random 3 card hand (3rd card added after the draw)*. you flip the closest to your mean slightly ahead of me so your first flip was 5 on a scale of 10. now i flip <5 and yo flip slightly ahead of me and i flip randomly. i flip less than you in which case i fold, i flip higher than my first card but second to your flip in which case i get the river and knowledge of the diamonds, i flip over your flip and i have the better reverse polarity.

 

now...my first flip is higher than 5! you flip slightly ahead of me and i 2nd flip randomly. when i flip between your cards i fold, when i flip under your first card i have the river and the knowledge of the diamonds, when i flip over your flip i have a better hand, position on the river, and you have to play a big pot OOP.

 

that'll work for the low hand, can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep it to high only right now!

 

*oh we'll get to the draw in time, believe me

 

in the SB i randomly flipped a pair of pocket fives how do you play it? (A clue hidden within this post)

 

take your time but you better flip better better and better and show me those diamonds!

[navybuttons 15]

when i am seated with you at the poker table i want the worst place in the universe to be on my right hand and the second worse place in the universe to be on my left, unless, of course, you enjoy it no matter how it's played because you love people, like me. and in that case i want you to be all around me and in that case i will do my hardest to make you love playing with me.

 

"the silence" -

[MinhLyFan 1]

I'm going to think about this more, but, I will say I am going to fold a lot too from the BB...

[navybuttons 15]

how can you fold so much with a 1/15 blind structure?

 

you're making this pretty easy for me.

[navybuttons 15]

"Navybuttons' infinite stack paradox" - with infinite stacks in NLHE it is theoretically incorrect to call an open shove in the Big Blind with Aces.

 

As this relates to diamonds with infinite stacks we can only play if some part of the solution requires getting infinite stacks in behind. In this, the solution may be exploited.

[MinhLyFan 1]

I think you're on the button in every hand. And I also think you are greater than or equal to me. I'm still thinking about this...

[navybuttons 15]

As far as I know Diamonds is the only game with two knees.

 

Don't ever think that I'm greater than you. Ranking players will distort your perception.

[navybuttons 15]

Oh, extra innings in baseball adds a huge second knee.

[navybuttons 15]

"Art" - If you are not aiming at yourself you are not aiming at the wall next to da vinci.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

"Art" - If you are not aiming at yourself you are not aiming at the wall next to da vinci.

 

Hence Picasso's self portraits. And Thom Yorke's Radiohead coverband, The Creeps.

[navybuttons 15]

HU

[navybuttons 15]

But if you want I'm waiting at Roses.

[David_Sklansky 1,903]

HU

 

Spot me 5BB/hour and it's probably close.

[navybuttons 15]

Before you sat down in the middle of a hand there was a man at the other end of the table trying harder than any poker decision you've ever made in your life to keep his and your planet from being blown up by what the unenlightened call randomness.

 

Tonight someone asked me not to take this the wrong way. What he meant was that behind his actions there was no ill and I knew, because I know him, that what he was doing was for my benefit.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way but if you insist on sitting at this table there is no spot I can give you in which I do not embarrass you.

 

My advice is to sit back and watch what happens when a mathematician and a magician are best friends.

[navybuttons 15]

i didn't know the answer.

 

i still don't. i'm gonna make some guesses.

 

"board runout" - the way the board has a tendency to run out in games. each should be thought of as independent. does each person's board look like a hold 'em board? a stud board? an omaha board? it looks nothing like any of those. it's a diamond's board.

 

i think it'll be easier to think of diamonds in numbers. at least for the time being.

 

but first I wanted to talk about the 55 up on 4th street. the very interesting thing is that shy of a straight flush, without a paired board too I can know I have you board-locked. That'll be some reverse polarity.

 

back to numbers. let's start with hands 1 through 10. let's leave them as such for the time being. we'll make 1-3 bluffs, 4-6 calling hands and 7-10 betting hands. what i notice is that hands 2, 5, 6, 9, 10 being easiest to play. 1 is an expensive bluff with essentially 0, but it comes with a "why play it then" attitude. two being an easier bluff, 3 is more difficult than 1 and 2. 4 is easier to play than 3 but more difficult than 1 and 2. it's easier to call with 6 than 5. 9 and 10 are clear bets.

 

i sense that numbers that carry difficult decisions have greater weight in an exploitive strategy.

 

let's translate those numbers

 

1) complete bluff: something like 24579TJ

2) whiff: like 3689TJK

3) inbetween a bluff and a call leaning bluff: like 4568TJA

4) hero call: like 2257TJQ

5) pretty standard call: 45TJJKQ

6) pretty standard call: 4477TJK

7) weird spot: 5568TTJ

8) go for it: 3458AAA

9) duh: straights and flushes

10) nh: full house +

 

in order for any further guesses this has to be essentially correct.

 

LyFan, thoughts?