wrto4556 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 I am acting the role of villian. Everyone has reads on me, right?Preflop: T9suited gets delt Q ,J on the Button.T9suited raises, wrto 3-bets, T9suited calls.Flop: A ,Q ,6 wrto bets...What is T9suiteds play? Link to post Share on other sites
Vade 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Raise. You are making a standard continuation bet :wink: Link to post Share on other sites
109suited 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 I clearly outclassed wrto in this battle of the .10/.20 cent nature. Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Author Share Posted May 29, 2005 ok, why raise?I 3-bet preflop. Put me on a range...well...yeah, put me on a range of hands and tell me what raising accomplishes. Im bored. Link to post Share on other sites
109suited 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 The range of hands that people can put you on is largely based on your read of me. So, what was your read of me, buddy? Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Author Share Posted May 29, 2005 You play too tight and were running bad. Running bad is a read. When people are running bad I play more aggressively. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 What the hell, I'll take a shot. I have no faith in my limit game at the momentwrto-small pocket pair. Somewhere from 9 down. Just a feeling. Raising to represent a bigger hand. If he's running bad, you felt he'd drop a good hand. Or because you didn't think he hit the flop Link to post Share on other sites
109suited 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 I'm really interested to hear what people think. The results may or may not surprise you. Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Author Share Posted May 29, 2005 I'm really interested to hear what people think. The results may or may not surprise you.me, too. Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 my lineR flop - bet turn (not sure yet what to do if wrto bets turn)R flop if 3 bet call and c/f turn ui Link to post Share on other sites
pokernoobie 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 i think u have 72o and are just ****ing around Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 ok, why raise?I 3-bet preflop. Put me on a range...well...yeah, put me on a range of hands and tell me what raising accomplishes. Im bored. You would 3 bet pf alot of hands that he now has beat. KJs, K10s(maybe) - JJ -77. Obviously some/all hands containing an A. Raise to put the heat back on you. Link to post Share on other sites
Emptyeye 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Yeah, if you're playing more aggressively because he's "running bad", then you could have a variety of things he's actually ahead of. I'll take a shotand say you were continuation betting with jacks, so I (109suited) should raise and see if you actually had an ace or not. Link to post Share on other sites
109suited 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 The way he was playing, my thinking actually had him on a weaker hand once he reraised. Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted May 29, 2005 Author Share Posted May 29, 2005 im not sure what a raise accomplishes. I will probably fold a hand T9suited beats, and stop n go or C/r the turn with a hand that beats T9suited.Anyone see this as a wa/wb scenario? Link to post Share on other sites
Nutcracker 0 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Yeah, I was thinking of calling you down if you're playing very aggressively, though I'm not very skilled at heads up limit play, so that could be totally wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 im not sure what a raise accomplishes. I will probably fold a hand T9suited beats, and stop n go or C/r the turn with a hand that beats T9suited.Anyone see this as a wa/wb scenario?you're talking about the flop right?if so, his raise charges you an extra sb to see the turn or charges you to catch up. If you fold he takes the pot. I don't see why he wouldn't raise here. I think it's a must to narrow your hand range and play it from there.And yes to the last question Link to post Share on other sites
DCWildcat 0 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 This is a stupid question...what's a wa/wb scenario? Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 way ahead/way behind Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted May 30, 2005 Author Share Posted May 30, 2005 Hero is either way ahead or way behind (wa/wb).Generally, you don't raise in situations like this because you lose the most to hands that beat you and win the least from hands you beat. Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 don't you think that's why he needs to raise the flop, to determine wether he's wa/wb. I don't think the 3 bet pf is enough to say. Link to post Share on other sites
DCWildcat 0 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Hero is either way ahead or way behind (wa/wb).Generally, you don't raise in situations like this because you lose the most to hands that beat you and win the least from hands you beat.Gotcha. Thanks a bunch. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 don't you think that's why he needs to raise the flop, to determine wether he's wa/wb. I don't think the 3 bet pf is enough to say.Raising for information is highly overrated in limit HE. If you were ALWAYS three bet when you were behind and ALWAYS called when you're ahead then it's neutral EV (slightly -EV because you have the extra SB you lose when behind.)However, there are time where you will be 3-bet when you are ahead vs. a tricky opponent or they have a good draw like K 10 which could very easily have 3-bet you preflop. In these cases you are going to fold the turn UI which is a HUGE mistake if you have the best hand. If you don't fold to a bet here, the raise is purely chip spewage.If you're behind, you may not get 3-bet as well. In these cases, wrto would probably put himself in a wa/wb line and check/call you down, costing you more bets when you are behind then just calling down. I can see this happening with KQo fearing you have an A, or a weak A like A8 or worse fearing you have a better A.Finally, this isn't a pure way ahead/way behind scenario. If you are behind you are either against KQ, or a higher pair, all of which have you WAY behind by about a 4:1. If you're ahead though, you're not as likely to be way ahead. You are way ahead vs a worse Q or something like JJ, but you are only moderately behind vs something like any two hearst (2:1 favorite) and a near coinflip against KX or QX of hearts.Overall, raising for information here is bad because it can be very unreliable. You can reasonably get 3-bet by hands that you are a coinflip too (KX and QX of hearts) so folding UI on the turn is horrible. You can also get called by hands you are only moderately ahead of like a flush draw or even some that have you beat like a weak A.Zara Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Here's a great article that covers a lot of the ideas present in this hand, and also in a general wa/wb line.http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...4679&m_id=65560Zara Link to post Share on other sites
brando 0 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 good info zarawhat do you think is 109's play here then? Does he just call down? I don't really see folding this on the flop as an option. I still see value in raising the flop to get some indication of where you're at. Just calling down seems very weak (it could be a better play, we know wrto is aggressive though and said he was being more aggressive b/c 109 was on a bad run). I really believe we have the best hand here. Link to post Share on other sites
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