Boston Marathon Bombing

[aucu 3]

Your post is completely devoid of a logical basis. It only gets the most attention, impact and terror if the media blows it up and people choose to be frightened by an event that logically they should not be as frightened by.

 

I blame the media and idiots like you for assuming Muslims as a "probable conclusion," which is doubly impressive, since an actual Muslim would never do something like that. Perhaps an extremist, but calling an extremist "Muslim" is like calling a member of the KKK a "Christian." Seriously.

 

I don't suppose that the media attention had anything to do with the terrorists picking the finish line of a major international sporting event? Much better and more PC to assume that it is just because they hate brown or Islamic people.

 

If you think that it makes me an idiot to think that the the possible perpetrators in decreasing order of probability would look something like

-Islamic terrorists

-Random criminal-loon (Washington sniper type)

-Right wing-nut (Oklahoma bomber type)

-Left wing-nut Anti-capitalist occupy everything types

-Eco Terrorists

-Elmer Fudd

-Mickey Mouse

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

So how much do you want to bet this is going to end up with Russia leveraging US support for another brutal Chechnya campaign?

[FCP Bob 1,312]

So how much do you want to bet this is going to end up with Russia leveraging US support for another brutal Chechnya campaign?

 

Putin is loving every minute of this without a doubt.

[mrdannyg 274]

I don't suppose that the media attention had anything to do with the terrorists picking the finish line of a major international sporting event? Much better and more PC to assume that it is just because they hate brown or Islamic people.

 

If you think that it makes me an idiot to think that the the possible perpetrators in decreasing order of probability would look something like

-Islamic terrorists

-Random criminal-loon (Washington sniper type)

-Right wing-nut (Oklahoma bomber type)

-Left wing-nut Anti-capitalist occupy everything types

-Eco Terrorists

-Elmer Fudd

-Mickey Mouse

 

Three things. One, that you and most of this thread have left out - this is not Islam. Perhaps Islam-themed Extremism. No one called the Oklahoma bomber Christian without the word "extremist" or "nut" and you should do the same here.

 

Two - media attention is one thing. Of course it is getting attention, that's why they did it there. Media attention is different than willfully inciting terror. If people want to be scared, they should be a lot more scared of a poorly inspected factory near them blowing up, destroying an entire town, rather than a carefully planned attack that was designed more for attention than actual damage.

 

Three - like Scram, you're pointing to past events and racism to determine probability. Not the worst way to do it, I'll admit. Probability is a lot less than certainty though, and you need to be goddamn certain to make the assertions that you and millions of others have made in the past 48 hours. To do so with any less than certainty is the kind of deep-seated and severely dangerous racism that you guys love to pretend is in your past (except Scram, who denies nothing).

[Balloon guy 158]

He expected a bigger change of heart after 9-11 from Bush.

 

He was disappointed.

[Balloon guy 158]

Three things. One, that you and most of this thread have left out - this is not Islam. Perhaps Islam-themed Extremism. No one called the Oklahoma bomber Christian without the word "extremist" or "nut" and you should do the same here.

 

Two - media attention is one thing. Of course it is getting attention, that's why they did it there. Media attention is different than willfully inciting terror. If people want to be scared, they should be a lot more scared of a poorly inspected factory near them blowing up, destroying an entire town, rather than a carefully planned attack that was designed more for attention than actual damage.

 

Three - like Scram, you're pointing to past events and racism to determine probability. Not the worst way to do it, I'll admit. Probability is a lot less than certainty though, and you need to be goddamn certain to make the assertions that you and millions of others have made in the past 48 hours. To do so with any less than certainty is the kind of deep-seated and severely dangerous racism that you guys love to pretend is in your past (except Scram, who denies nothing).

 

More likely this is the reason he isn't called a Christian:

 

 

In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion

[Balloon guy 158]

Danny,

 

Why do you want us to be 'fair and balanced' towards a religion that mostly teaches hatred for everyone not them and that dying in jihad is a good thing?

 

 

80% of mosques in America are preaching hatred of Jews and Christians and the necessity to ultimately impose Islamic rule…

 

 

A random survey of 100 representative mosques in the U.S. was conducted to measure the correlation between Sharia adherence and dogma calling for violence against non-believers. Of the 100 mosques surveyed, 51% had texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% had texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% had no violent texts at all. Mosques that presented as Sharia adherent were more likely to feature violence-positive texts on site than were their non-Sharia-adherent counterparts. In 84.5% of the mosques, the imam recommended studying violence-positive texts. The leadership at Sharia-adherent mosques was more likely to recommend that a worshipper study violence-positive texts than leadership at non-Sharia-adherent mosques. Fifty-eight percent of the mosques invited guest imams known to promote violent jihad. The leadership of mosques that featured violence-positive literature was more likely to invite guest imams who were known to promote violent jihad than was the leadership of mosques that did not feature violence-positive literature on mosque premises.

[timwakefield 68]

Three - like Scram, you're pointing to past events and racism to determine probability. Not the worst way to do it, I'll admit. Probability is a lot less than certainty though, and you need to be goddamn certain to make the assertions that you and millions of others have made in the past 48 hours. To do so with any less than certainty is the kind of deep-seated and severely dangerous racism that you guys love to pretend is in your past (except Scram, who denies nothing).

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here but....they're fucking Chechnyan Muslims. This has now been established.

 

This* was of course already assumed to be likely (not certain, but likely), which we can understand by some simple math. I believe this is your main point/gripe, but I can't tell if you're also still questioning their religion. Anyways back to math: count major terrorist attacks or attempted attacks in the West in recent years, then count how many were by Muslims. It was made further likely by examining their method (bombs) and their target (random civilians).

 

To be clear, by "this" I mean that they are radical Islamists. They're not just regular Muslims, on whom the jury is still out in my admittedly xenophobic opinion. They are fundamentalist jihadist radicalized Islamists.

[mrdannyg 274]

More likely this is the reason he isn't called a Christian:

 

 

In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion

 

I don't doubt that McVeigh was not a Christian. I'm not sure how a book released 6 years after the fact is in any way relevant to the media coverage at the time.

 

Danny,

 

Why do you want us to be 'fair and balanced' towards a religion that mostly teaches hatred for everyone not them and that dying in jihad is a good thing?

 

lol. read the Bible lately? Sharia law is no more violent or hateful than the Bible. "All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here but....they're fucking Chechnyan Muslims. This has now been established.

 

This* was of course already assumed to be likely (not certain, but likely), which we can understand by some simple math. I believe this is your main point/gripe, but I can't tell if you're also still questioning their religion. Anyways back to math: count major terrorist attacks or attempted attacks in the West in recent years, then count how many were by Muslims. It was made further likely by examining their method (bombs) and their target (random civilians).

 

To be clear, by "this" I mean that they are radical Islamists. They're not just regular Muslims, on whom the jury is still out in my admittedly xenophobic opinion. They are fundamentalist jihadist radicalized Islamists.

 

You called them Chechnyan Muslims. They are radicalists/extremists who happen to be Muslim. Calling them Muslim without qualifying that they are not typical of their religion is wrong.

 

You're right - if we use history as a guide (highly questionable) and only consider attacks against random citizens with explosives (also questionable), the probability was in favour of them being extremist Muslims. Last I checked, in your country, you aren't suspect to suspect very large groups of people in that manner. Think about how many visibly Muslim people (worth pointing out that these guys would not even have been visibly Muslim to just about anyone) are cast under suspicion by thoughts like this. Now think about how many (all of them) were completely innocent. Now think about if it is fair that these people were significantly harmed by your suspicion (hint: they were). I guess you might think that is fair if you think Muslims in general are a violent or hateful people, but it might be worth remembering that there's a few billion people in this world who would view Christians and Americans as a lot more hateful, violent and scary than Muslims, and Americans are the only group that views the actions of an extremely small number of extremists as a daily threat.

 

*not including Arizona.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

. Anyways back to math: count major terrorist attacks or attempted attacks in the West in recent years, then count how many were by Muslims. It was made further likely by examining their method (bombs) and their target (random civilians).

 

 

Well, let me take a point of contention here. Are spree killings considered terrorist attacks? IF not, why not? Something like the Aurora shooting was explicitly done to create terror. If that killer had been muslim acting on his own, and not a white kid acting on his own, I'm certain the media description of it would be a terrorist attack, and not a "spree killing"

 

I'm not saying that radicalized Muslim terrorists aren't a threat, and there aren't extremely organized terrorist cells. But this specific killing, strikes me much more like what is labeled a spree killing, done by the severely mentally ill, than it does an organized terrorist plot. I just think it's curious that the ideologies of those who commit the act change what the act is labeled.

 

 

I could be proven wrong, in the coming weeks, this could be the act of a more organized greater group, but I would bet against it.

[timwakefield 68]

You're right - if we use history as a guide (highly questionable) and only consider attacks against random citizens with explosives (also questionable), the probability was in favour of them being extremist Muslims.

 

You misunderstood me. Take all terrorist attacks in the West, including mass shootings. Then look at similar attacks (against random citizens with explosives). Then make a prediction based on that. This is extremely different than only looking at similar attacks. It is the type of attack which helps give us our answer, not the other way around.

 

I'm not sure why using history as a guide is "highly questionable" though. Recent history is what we're talking about, not 1925 or something. Strategies and ideals and modus operandis that were taught and subscribed to 10 years ago may well be taught and subscribed to today. To ignore the wealth of information we have about other attacks would be ridiculous.

[aucu 3]

Now it's a conspiracy against these fine young boys.

Toronto "news" paper

 

http://www.thestar.c...g_suspects.html

 

 

 

The aunt of the two Boston bombing suspects is calling for additional evidence showing they are behind the acts.

 

“I am a lawyer and there are four of us in the family,” Maret Tsarnaev told reporters Friday at her Toronto home. “I can’t lightly accept this kind of accusations without supporting evidence. Forgive me, but I cannot.

 

MORE ON THESTAR.COM

 

Who are the bombing suspects??

 

“Could it be staged? I have to question everything. That’s my nature.”

 

Police are hunting for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, who survived an overnight shootout and police chase. His older brother Tamerlan, 26, was killed in the shootout.

 

Their aunt said the boys’ parents went to the U.S. as refugees with Dzhokhar in 2002. The older brother, Tamerlan, and the suspects’ two sisters came in 2003.

 

She said she has not spoken to her nephews in about five years. She believed Tamerlan was married to a woman “from a good Christian family” woman and had a three-year-old child.

 

“So you can’t tie it up to religion, either, because having the closest person in your house... and a daughter of that union, how can you hate this religion and be violent?”

 

Maret said both men were Muslim but was not sure how devout, if at all.

 

She knew the boys had gone to school and had worked at jobs such as store clerk and pizza delivery.

 

When she spoke to Tamerlan last time, he sounded “enthusiastic.” He was a boxer for fun, she added.

 

Tsarnaev only heard the news and saw the photos this morning and thought: “This cannot be true.”

 

She said the boys’ father was soft-hearted. “I don’t know how he’s taking this,” she said.

 

“I still do not believe these two boys would do this. I don’t know them in a way that they could be capable of this.”

 

She added people should not just “swallow” everything the government is saying.

 

“I called (the FBI) and I said please, take that into account. Give evidence. Give at least evidence to family members. Because I will never accuse my relatives, my nephews, without having evidence. Because we are not talking about something small.

 

“We are talking about three dead people, hundreds injured. And I do not believe our boys would do that.”

[aucu 3]

Well, let me take a point of contention here. Are spree killings considered terrorist attacks? IF not, why not? Something like the Aurora shooting was explicitly done to create terror. If that killer had been muslim acting on his own, and not a white kid acting on his own, I'm certain the media description of it would be a terrorist attack, and not a "spree killing"

 

I'm not saying that radicalized Muslim terrorists aren't a threat, and there aren't extremely organized terrorist cells. But this specific killing, strikes me much more like what is labeled a spree killing, done by the severely mentally ill, than it does an organized terrorist plot. I just think it's curious that the ideologies of those who commit the act change what the act is labeled.

 

 

I could be proven wrong, in the coming weeks, this could be the act of a more organized greater group, but I would bet against it.

 

I think there has to be a political or religious motivation to make is terrorist.

[AmScray 355]

One was a gold glove boxer, how white could he be?

 

It's just one of those things.

 

Asians are good at math and classical music, blacks are good at Jazz and Family Fued.

Eastern Europeans can box.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I think there has to be a political or religious motivation to make is terrorist.

 

Just because the people who do a spree killing like Aurora are really crazy, doesn't mean they don't have a political or religious motivation (or justification for their actions. I mean you can say the aurora killer was just crazy, but a suicide bomber isn't?

[aucu 3]

Just because the people who do a spree killing like Aurora are really crazy, doesn't mean they don't have a political or religious motivation (or justification for their actions. I mean you can say the aurora killer was just crazy, but a suicide bomber isn't?

 

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/terrorist

Noun

 

terrorist (plural terrorists)

1. A person, group, or organization that uses violent action, or the threat of violent action, to further political goals; frequently in an attempt to coerce either a more powerful opponent, (such as a citizen or group targeting a government), or conversely, a weaker opponent, (such as a government, or even an internal citizen or group, being targeted by a larger government).
   

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

and again, why was the aurora's killing not politcal? I'm sure it was, to him.

[AmScray 355]

So, they got the other one alive.

 

Looking pretty solid that this was disgruntled Muslim immigrants who 'found' Jihad after living in the United States (not too hard to understand why, our culture is pretty awful), older bro influences younger bro and we get this.

 

My favorite conclusion-jumps from the past 24 hours...

 

"... in pursuit of a middle eastern subject..."

 

"These are terrorists who came here to kill people..."

[FCP Bob 1,312]

the older Brother only came to the US 4 years ago so he probably still was carrying a lot of baggage and had just spent 6 months back in Russia and the FBI had actually questioned him at the request of a foreign government which had to be Russia

[AmScray 355]

the older Brother only came to the US 4 years ago so he probably still was carrying a lot of baggage and had just spent 6 months back in Russia and the FBI had actually questioned him at the request of a foreign government which had to be Russia

 

Seemed to have quite the boner for cops.

They set off the bomb in a "**** the USA" gesture but basically don't kill anyone else, let a hostage go but ambush a beat cop, older brother goes blaze-of-glory against the big group of cops while younger brother gets away...

 

Suffering a single indignity can turn a person pretty sharply.

So, he was 'questioned by the FBI?" He also had some experience with locals during a recent arrest.

Hatred and anger against 'the system' can manifest itself in odd ways, if its left to stew.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc0_ttM8bak

 

For the 9,999,999 times authorities get away with treating someong like shit or running roughshod over their personal dignity 'because they can', there's that one time when somebody with nothing left to lose decides to get payback.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbG9i1oGPA

 

I'm really starting to wonder if that isn't a 'thing' here.

The fact they let that hostage go but shot that other cop is really strange and hints that they're striking against a perceived systemic injustice rather than simple Jihad terrorism, even if that was the excuse they needed to develop the sack to go out and actually do it.

[timwakefield 68]

Video an old friend of mine who still lives in Watertown just posted:

 

 

 

Not sure why it's not embedding. It's crowds in Watertown cheering the police and everybody.

[timwakefield 68]

http://cryptome.org/2013/04/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev.pdf

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Video an old friend of mine who still lives in Watertown just posted:

 

 

 

Not sure why it's not embedding. It's crowds in Watertown cheering the police and everybody.

 

I think because it's https the secure link it doesn't embed.

 

If you copy the share link it will embed

 

[FCP Bob 1,312]

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Boston Globe profile of the Brothers

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/19/relatives-marathon-bombing-suspects-worried-that-older-brother-was-corrupting-sweet-younger-sibling/UCYHkiP9nfsjAtMjJPWJJL/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw