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douche or no douche: guy who says "staycation?"

 

 

If I may, not douchey. Maybe a tad gay, like "I'll suck a small dick but not a big one" gay, but not douchey.

 

To be sure, I am douchey. Just not for that reason.

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I change my mind.   Make this shit illegal.

I'm much thicker he said, answering my question and confirming my suspicion all in one douchey hate your face moment.

Okay, I'm assuming this all started out by evolving into a wife swapping event of some sort. Best I can tell their is no homosexual activity happenin'. So, if correct, it seems that other guy like

I think most people against gay marriage would be ok with some sort of govt sanctioned liason guaranteeing same rights as married couples.

 

Most are. It's the calling it marriage that irks naysayers. When we get "married" in July, were not calling it a marriage, were calling it a commitment ceremony.

 

I will post pics.

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Most are. It's the calling it marriage that irks naysayers. When we get "married" in July, were not calling it a marriage, were calling it a commitment ceremony.

 

I will post pics.

Wat exactly do you mean. Are the four of you going to committ yourself to any and all of the other participant?
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Wat exactly do you mean. Are the four of you going to committ yourself to any and all of the other participant?

 

In a word, yes, and that's a good question. For me it means a commitment to cherishing wife number two as much as wife number one, there is a level of commitment to second hubby as well, to be a good friend and good man and to honor that trust he gives me with his number one and in a way, his life. Does it mean we will all never swing again? No. We could. We've talked about it. That would be something we would do if it was agreed on, and that's a funny subject. Me and number two are done, but in speaking about it the other two are more open about that idea, and so what two and I have said is basically, if you two want go right ahead with your bad self, for us if we have extra time it's together time.

 

I think utmost is just, this is family, that I chose. Love them and love them as much as I can. That's my commitment.

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Hmmmmm......I do feel the need on some level to prove that it's not a joke, at the same time while we are out, we are careful, in that careers could be hurt. That's a struggle for us. Friends all know, most family, but past that were pretty careful. Tell you what, lets take a pics or it didnt happen approach. I will post pics with faces scrubbed, and at some point when I feel comfortable and feel it's controllable I will link Facebook. There is also a blog in the works as well, just working in having enough content because it may be monetized in some way.

 

No need. It's an anonymous message board. You would be proving it to people that aren't real. I love the stories, want them to continue as they seem real, and support you living anyway you see fit. My only point was that I wouldn't condone giving it legal "marriage" protection, mostly because of the legal ramifications and the possibility of for people using the conract fraudulently. You can draw up whatever contract you like though for certain protections.

 

I think most people against gay marriage would be ok with some sort of govt sanctioned liason guaranteeing same rights as married couples.

 

I dont' think so. I think most against gay marriage think being gay is "wrong" in some way. And even if they would agree to some "civil union" protections, we all know it isn't the same as having the full rights that marriage allows. Denying gays to marriage is really unethical, and their is no ethical reason to be against it.

 

Most are. It's the calling it marriage that irks naysayers. When we get "married" in July, were not calling it a marriage, were calling it a commitment ceremony.

 

I will post pics.

 

I was going to ask about the commitment to the other guy, but you answered that in another post. You technically aren't marrying him as much as becoming a bros that share...scratch that, really good friends.

 

 

 

Ok, but if the wives aren't attractive, you're going to lose some of your audience.

 

Tru dat. But I still want the stories, just less the sex.

 

 

 

 

In a word, yes, and that's a good question. For me it means a commitment to cherishing wife number two as much as wife number one, there is a level of commitment to second hubby as well, to be a good friend and good man and to honor that trust he gives me with his number one and in a way, his life. Does it mean we will all never swing again? No. We could. We've talked about it. That would be something we would do if it was agreed on, and that's a funny subject. Me and number two are done, but in speaking about it the other two are more open about that idea, and so what two and I have said is basically, if you two want go right ahead with your bad self, for us if we have extra time it's together time.

 

I think utmost is just, this is family, that I chose. Love them and love them as much as I can. That's my commitment.

 

Culture is evolving and as tough as marriages are to keep together, I can't fathom trying to keep this group going long term. How would you term the decision making process, a liberal democracy or totalitarian, or communist etc?? I simply mean is it a majority rules kinda thing? My wife rules my house but she can't make up her mind on paint colors, so I can't imagine trying to figure out how to keep 2 women pleased with my actions.

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I think most people against gay marriage would be ok with some sort of govt sanctioned liason guaranteeing same rights as married couples.

 

You're wrong - that's just their effort to find a compromise that still insults people wanting equal rights. If you're ok with gay marriage, just under a different name, you're almost certainly a moron. It's just a name.

 

Then again, separate but equal has always been a pretty strong ethical stance, amirite?

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No need. It's an anonymous message board. You would be proving it to people that aren't real. I love the stories, want them to continue as they seem real, and support you living anyway you see fit. My only point was that I wouldn't condone giving it legal "marriage" protection, mostly because of the legal ramifications and the possibility of for people using the conract fraudulently. You can draw up whatever contract you like though for certain protections.

 

 

 

I dont' think so. I think most against gay marriage think being gay is "wrong" in some way. And even if they would agree to some "civil union" protections, we all know it isn't the same as having the full rights that marriage allows. Denying gays to marriage is really unethical, and their is no ethical reason to be against it.

 

 

 

I was going to ask about the commitment to the other guy, but you answered that in another post. You technically aren't marrying him as much as becoming a bros that share...scratch that, really good friends.

 

 

 

Tru dat. But I still want the stories, just less the sex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Culture is evolving and as tough as marriages are to keep together, I can't fathom trying to keep this group going long term. How would you term the decision making process, a liberal democracy or totalitarian, or communist etc?? I simply mean is it a majority rules kinda thing? My wife rules my house but she can't make up her mind on paint colors, so I can't imagine trying to figure out how to keep 2 women pleased with my actions.

 

Lets just say that the decision making process is an ever evolving work in progress. We try really hard to do a majority rules type thing but depending on the person, that can't always work, for now. For example, I'm not all that versed in not getting my way, so if I am hell bent on something you kind of have to let me loose, number two is that way as well, but were working on it. The other two are much more laid back. An example of working together, though, would be yesterday when we walked through the whole house room by room and decided what we wanted to do in each room to improve and upgrade, it was easy, mostly majority rules, but the tanning bed were buying, only two and I give a shit about that, the others don't tan like her and I do, but it's what we want, so they just went along.

 

Most of the time, it's an endless exercise in doing your best to be workable, and truthfully I think that will be key to making this long term. But that's true of any marriage.

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Lets just say that the decision making process is an ever evolving work in progress. We try really hard to do a majority rules type thing but depending on the person, that can't always work, for now. For example, I'm not all that versed in not getting my way, so if I am hell bent on something you kind of have to let me loose, number two is that way as well, but were working on it. The other two are much more laid back. An example of working together, though, would be yesterday when we walked through the whole house room by room and decided what we wanted to do in each room to improve and upgrade, it was easy, mostly majority rules, but the tanning bed were buying, only two and I give a shit about that, the others don't tan like her and I do, but it's what we want, so they just went along.

 

Most of the time, it's an endless exercise in doing your best to be workable, and truthfully I think that will be key to making this long term. But that's true of any marriage.

 

In mine I just do what my wife tells me and it seems to work out fine. It takes a ton of effort to keep her happy and she's really low maintenance, so I can't imagine your situation. Good luck though.

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You're wrong - that's just their effort to find a compromise that still insults people wanting equal rights. If you're ok with gay marriage, just under a different name, you're almost certainly a moron. It's just a name.

 

Then again, separate but equal has always been a pretty strong ethical stance, amirite?

Seperate but equal is an awesome condition. Well said.
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In mine I just do what my wife tells me and it seems to work out fine. It takes a ton of effort to keep her happy and she's really low maintenance, so I can't imagine your situation. Good luck though.

 

 

As a group we work together really well, but each individual relationship has it's own dynamic that had to be recognized, so if anything that's the challenge, just keeping track of what works with who. Oddly enough, the relationship that is the easiest and most manageable is between me and dude two, we never argue, make sure to check in every morning and discuss shit, it's really funny. One and I get along great, we always had a good relationship save for a year or so when things were rocky six or so years ago. Twos a challenge, she's a lovely person, but very dominant, which I am as well, so we clash at times but that's usually my failure in that I know what it takes to "tame" my dominant side so there is no reason why I should not be on top of that, tactically. Two and One don't get along nearly as well as they should, recently, but they are working on it. Various issues with level of respect and just an underlying reality, which is this: women, pretty much ****ing hate each other. Everything is a competition , much, much worse than any reasonable man. Two and and other dude have a lot of baggage, and it's made it rough at times, but they are working through it. Dude two and wife one seem to get along really well, and he does a great job taking care of her.

 

It's a challenge for sure, when to stand your ground, when to give in, what's worth what and I whom? It can be exhausting but it's rewarding.

 

Right now were battling on getting a housekeeper. Two wants one, but no one else really wants one, except the other two are willing to do it just so two will shut the **** up about it, they think it will make her "happy." Nope. That's up to her, and the house is clean, she just doesn't like to do shit. I actually don't mind the housekeeper, but the idea of giving in just so someone will shut up grates on my soul so far no agreement, and I am in a two week period of proving shit can get done fairly easily, also proving that with two families, even though we constantly clean the house is huge and there will always be a mess somewhere. That's all there is to it, paying someone won't change that fact, unless we get a live in maid of some sort. Seriously, though, no more people moving in.

 

We will still get a housekeeper, it's not that expensive and it takes stuff off of our plates. I just won't sign on because I feel forced.

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As a group we work together really well, but each individual relationship has it's own dynamic that had to be recognized, so if anything that's the challenge, just keeping track of what works with who. Oddly enough, the relationship that is the easiest and most manageable is between me and dude two, we never argue, make sure to check in every morning and discuss shit, it's really funny. One and I get along great, we always had a good relationship save for a year or so when things were rocky six or so years ago. Twos a challenge, she's a lovely person, but very dominant, which I am as well, so we clash at times but that's usually my failure in that I know what it takes to "tame" my dominant side so there is no reason why I should not be on top of that, tactically. Two and One don't get along nearly as well as they should, recently, but they are working on it. Various issues with level of respect and just an underlying reality, which is this: women, pretty much ****ing hate each other. Everything is a competition , much, much worse than any reasonable man. Two and and other dude have a lot of baggage, and it's made it rough at times, but they are working through it. Dude two and wife one seem to get along really well, and he does a great job taking care of her.

 

It's a challenge for sure, when to stand your ground, when to give in, what's worth what and I whom? It can be exhausting but it's rewarding.

 

Right now were battling on getting a housekeeper. Two wants one, but no one else really wants one, except the other two are willing to do it just so two will shut the **** up about it, they think it will make her "happy." Nope. That's up to her, and the house is clean, she just doesn't like to do shit. I actually don't mind the housekeeper, but the idea of giving in just so someone will shut up grates on my soul so far no agreement, and I am in a two week period of proving shit can get done fairly easily, also proving that with two families, even though we constantly clean the house is huge and there will always be a mess somewhere. That's all there is to it, paying someone won't change that fact, unless we get a live in maid of some sort. Seriously, though, no more people moving in.

 

We will still get a housekeeper, it's not that expensive and it takes stuff off of our plates. I just won't sign on because I feel forced.

 

Okay, I'm assuming this all started out by evolving into a wife swapping event of some sort. Best I can tell their is no homosexual activity happenin'. So, if correct, it seems that other guy like gal 1, as do you. Everyone has problems with gal 2. I don't see this going well down the road. Now in the interest of keeping this going for all of our benefits (we like the stories) I'd like to offer a suggestion or some advice.

 

Wife 2 is the dominant personality who is probably quick to react and doesn't think things through as calmly as the rest of you which is frustrating. But that is typically normal of that personality type, and not a "right or wrong" trait, it's just the way she is. Everyone would be much better off if they accepted and understood that. It can be a real plus, especially in a group setting. I have a feeling a lot of things wouldn't get done without her "take charge" attitude. Also, a negative personality can be a plus in other ways. If you were all going to hop on a rowboat and cruise across a river to a bar, it sounds like the 3 of you would be easily convinced to hop on, while wife 2 would be bitching there was probably a hole in the boat and demand a cab. But keep in mind, she might be right and saving your asses.

 

As for the maid, if you give in she will probably bitch about the job the maids do. She will probably end up firing the maids and demand you all do a better job cleaning after yourselves. She will probably does and will end up doing most of the cleaning herself since she is the only one who can do it to her standards. And on, and on......

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Okay, I'm assuming this all started out by evolving into a wife swapping event of some sort. Best I can tell their is no homosexual activity happenin'. So, if correct, it seems that other guy like gal 1, as do you. Everyone has problems with gal 2. I don't see this going well down the road. Now in the interest of keeping this going for all of our benefits (we like the stories) I'd like to offer a suggestion or some advice.

 

Wife 2 is the dominant personality who is probably quick to react and doesn't think things through as calmly as the rest of you which is frustrating. But that is typically normal of that personality type, and not a "right or wrong" trait, it's just the way she is. Everyone would be much better off if they accepted and understood that. It can be a real plus, especially in a group setting. I have a feeling a lot of things wouldn't get done without her "take charge" attitude. Also, a negative personality can be a plus in other ways. If you were all going to hop on a rowboat and cruise across a river to a bar, it sounds like the 3 of you would be easily convinced to hop on, while wife 2 would be bitching there was probably a hole in the boat and demand a cab. But keep in mind, she might be right and saving your asses.

 

As for the maid, if you give in she will probably bitch about the job the maids do. She will probably end up firing the maids and demand you all do a better job cleaning after yourselves. She will probably does and will end up doing most of the cleaning herself since she is the only one who can do it to her standards. And on, and on......

 

Wife number two is most certainly the most dominant, I am right behind her and over time learning how to establish mine. The thing with her is just learning what works.....for example, recently we went to a Stand Up performance by Doug Benson, the four of us, and she had taken offense to something dude one had said and was just being a bear, the problem was I had planned the night out, it was my night with her, we hasn't seen each other for like four days because our schedules were opposite and I was in no mood to deal with her, especially since it had nothing to do with me and everything to do with there underlying issues. I didnt get mad. I just left. Took a nap in the car. It was a nice nap too, I was tired. I said one thing, "You want to have a miserable night, you don't need me for that, you can do that alone."

 

It worked. Like, as well as could be expected. She respected the fact that I would just leave. Hubby number one has been walked all over for years, and I just am not built that way and it's not happening, so me doing that simple act actually propelled us to a new level in our relationship, and with any luck next time she will make the sensible choice. We will see.

 

Her problem is she is used to hubby number one just bending the **** over for any of her whims, which he should have never done, he really made my job as number two a nightmare sometimes, because he never taught her that "Hey, guess what? Yours is not the only thought process that matters." Simple as that. The thing is, she knows that, so I actually feel bad for her a bit, she really needed someone to be a man about ten or so years ago and tell her to **** off a few times. Now that I will occasionally do it, she's just befuddled. No favors were done for her or him taking the "Well, whatever" attitudes he did. He wasn't happy. And really, neither was she.

 

You're dead right that for the most part she tends to be the problem child and if she isn't "controlled" this will eventually go bad. I think that's absolutely true, and I tell her that, but I frame it in this way: "You set the tone. It's up to you, that's in your power. This home will be as happy or as whatever as you make it." As much as we men like to say we run shit, a happy woman up in the crib does wonders. So, I try to work on her just taking control of that.

 

The dynamics become messy when it comes to sex. Hubby number one has a hard time with two because of what I have been able to get out of her sexually. As in, she wants it, and is pretty much always a willing partner, make up sex, angry sex, afternoon sex, tired sex, if I want it I get it, and he was never able to figure that out. (My wife says it this way: "The truth is, you and two just connect better sexually. Simple as that.") At the same time, two hates the attention that hubby one gives my wife, not that she's getting attention but the type of attention that she gets is a type that wife two never thought he could do, and it irks her that he does it so easily for wife number two. There is a reason for that though, as much as she needs a certain type of attention (which I do, and do well) so does he, and there is only so many times anyone can put themselves out there and get shut down. They end up in vicious circles and have been doing it for years, she talks of years and years of sex once a month, which of course is insane.

 

 

I tend to think that the one thing that will bring this down is them, not being able to maintain a level if relationship ness for lack of better words that keeps a happy home. We will see. I do know this, and we have all pretty much talked about this on some level for awhile, if there were a "split" I would probably end up staying with two and my wife would go with hubby one. Those match ups just work better. We know that even now.

 

That's a horrific thought though. I like the four of us. Our life is good, and it gets better all of the time.

 

Oh, incidentally I gave my okay for the maid, but I told her hire the one that you want and show them exactly what you want because I am not listening to complaints about the maid. She agrees to those parameters. It makes sense. We're bringing in 22000 a month after taxes we can afford 500 for a maid service, and it just frees up time which is always a good thing.

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So, for the fun if it, a random sex story. This was our second date night, a swingers meet up, this new couple is going to introduce us to some new people, known safe play friends of theres. Plan is to meet up at a Swingers meet and greet at Salty Señorita in the East Valley and if everyone is hitting it off, a hotel has already been set up to go to afterward. Okay......

 

So we arrive, and are an immediate hit. My wife is a hot blond,nice body, and really at these gatherings that's the selling point. I'm no slouch but lets face it if it's just me I am probably not invited. We all have a few drinks, talk, meet a few other couples, some kind of creepy some not, and really just narrow down who's invited to the hotel. This takes about two hours, and the whole time two and I are talking, flirting, etc., we had just met the night before but there was definitely some sort of connection. That being said, it's not just me in this so when it came time go to the hotel, I left it up to my wife if she wanted to go....it's a lot of couples, 6, and that means the possibility of true group which we had never done on any real level. My wife was in so a beer run is done then it's off to the hotel.......

 

Starts off fairly tame. Girls in a hot tub messing around, guys kind of just talking about everything and anything but what's going on. Girl with huge pierced tits that did not want to hot tub it shoves then in my face, and got to be honest I was intimidated, not by the boobs as much as the tiny hand cuffs pierced through the nips. Really hot chick though, a true MILF in every sense. Anyway, girls tire of the hot tub, and the four of "us" decide we're going to go into one if the bedrooms....except everyone just followed.

 

That wasn't the plan, but what are to going to do? We dove right in, or rather my wife did and I did more observing then anything else. Watching to make sure she was okay, seeing what the current number two likes, really just observing. I took part,but really my goal was one thing....time with two. Something about her, could not put my finger on it.

 

 

You name it, it happened, no need to go into detail, just pull up youporn and look at a group sex scene and that's what happened. It was fun! (Compliment we received a month or two later: no one had any idea we had never done group. We acted like pros. **** yeah we did.) interesting tidbit: group isn't all that daunting. I found it kind of blasé to be honest. Still fun to be sure but it's not that big of a deal.

 

Anyway, a few hours later night is basically coming to an end, and still haven't really spent time with two, yet. She's tired, she's a pro and is used to playing the part of entertainer, but she's drained. So were in a side room and just talking to each other, how great the night went, how much fun was had, how everyone was into us and we fit right into there "group", she has removed her makeup at this point and were just kind of talking and complimenting and then were kissing, and then were touching, and then were kissing harder and touching more, and she says "I think the nights over, everyone else is done" and I said "I don't think it is" and before we know it, were ****ing.

 

Amazing, and she will tell you that as well, just a weird, vibrant, massive connection, as if I was re-connecting with on old long lost love.(She believes that we were lovers in a past life and were destined to be together. Me: Cukoo talk. But I get what's she's saying.) Intense, staring into eyes, talking, basically everything you are not supposed to do or experience when you're swinging. Just an incredible connection, and it turns out lines were crossed. She has never just had sex with someone else like that, in a separate room. Never orgasmed again, the same night, after she had what she used to call her " big one". (The big one now is just one of many big ones) Whatever was happening, it was outside of the norm. We did that for maybe another hour, then said our goodbyes and my wife and I went home.

 

That following week was one of the weirdest of my life, she left that big an impression on me. I even reached out to a friend of mine in porn who's heavy into swinging and asked for advice and she said, in a word "RUN."

 

 

I don't listen all that well, and instead kept in tough by text for a month while we planned a house party with our new friends. I was bound and determined to see what else this could be, because this girl was different.

 

That's enough for tonight, next time I will tell the tale of the time a random party squirted, then shit, all over the floor, and how that moment ties into me realizing I had found someone special.

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Okay, I missed the dynamics of the great sex with "other wife". This does get a bit complicated. Do you think that "other guy" would like to simply take off with your original wife/girl? I mean, it seems like a pretty sweet deal for her. Two guys with different attributes both caring and giving her what she needs. Double the income. Hell, no wonder she never complains :) Shame his gal can't get on board,...

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Okay, I missed the dynamics of the great sex with "other wife". This does get a bit complicated. Do you think that "other guy" would like to simply take off with your original wife/girl? I mean, it seems like a pretty sweet deal for her. Two guys with different attributes both caring and giving her what she needs. Double the income. Hell, no wonder she never complains :) Shame his gal can't get on board,...

 

Don't quite understand what you mean by missing the dynamics. As far as dude two wanting to take off with wife one, I don't think so. He's as into both of them as I am.

 

I wouldn't say that wife two isn't "on board", she's very much on board, it's just she gets caught in this trap where she has to have things a certain way with her O.G. They have a whole history of him putting the wrong kind of emphasis on sex, doing things only to get sex and she hates that. We all do that, he's just terrible at selling the idea that he is NOT doing things just for sex. He's also perceived by her as being one who just wants her to do as he says (who doesn't?) and she is aggressively against that. It doesn't mean she's not on board, what happens is he just ends up spending more time with my O.G. It's weird how they interact, I don't get it, like I said he is much to bend overy for my taste.

 

That's one of the benefits though, it turns out that most of the time all of us are getting along with at least one of the significant others so you never have to be alone.

 

I don't want to leave the impression that she's not on board, if it wasn't for her and I this never happens, she's fiercely loyal to this. Someday I will talk of the first stages, how it evolved, mistakes we made right off the bat, etc., but make no mistake, if it wasn't for her and I pushing for something we thought made sense were probably just friend in this life now and miserable.

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Don't quite understand what you mean by missing the dynamics. As far as dude two wanting to take off with wife one, I don't think so. He's as into both of them as I am.

 

I wouldn't say that wife two isn't "on board", she's very much on board, it's just she gets caught in this trap where she has to have things a certain way with her O.G. They have a whole history of him putting the wrong kind of emphasis on sex, doing things only to get sex and she hates that. We all do that, he's just terrible at selling the idea that he is NOT doing things just for sex. He's also perceived by her as being one who just wants her to do as he says (who doesn't?) and she is aggressively against that. It doesn't mean she's not on board, what happens is he just ends up spending more time with my O.G. It's weird how they interact, I don't get it, like I said he is much to bend overy for my taste.

 

That's one of the benefits though, it turns out that most of the time all of us are getting along with at least one of the significant others so you never have to be alone.

 

I don't want to leave the impression that she's not on board, if it wasn't for her and I this never happens, she's fiercely loyal to this. Someday I will talk of the first stages, how it evolved, mistakes we made right off the bat, etc., but make no mistake, if it wasn't for her and I pushing for something we thought made sense were probably just friend in this life now and miserable.

 

In fairness, you often mention how you don't quite understand all the dynamics so forgive me if I get confused, :).

 

I get the dynamics a little better now and see how the differing attitudes fill in gaps for others shortcomings. I also can see the benefits. I also you see you guys striving hard to "make it work" which I think is very important. Like a good book, I am interested in seeing how this works out in the future and what unforseen problems arise. It seems to me you and bendovary are both playing cool and I don't see problems on that front. Now the girls on the other hand.... Do they hang out, have things in common, communicate better than you are letting on? Do they compare notes on the sex they get? Give? How about income between them, does one view themselves as "more successful?"

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In fairness, you often mention how you don't quite understand all the dynamics so forgive me if I get confused, :).

 

I get the dynamics a little better now and see how the differing attitudes fill in gaps for others shortcomings. I also can see the benefits. I also you see you guys striving hard to "make it work" which I think is very important. Like a good book, I am interested in seeing how this works out in the future and what unforseen problems arise. It seems to me you and bendovary are both playing cool and I don't see problems on that front. Now the girls on the other hand.... Do they hang out, have things in common, communicate better than you are letting on? Do they compare notes on the sex they get? Give? How about income between them, does one view themselves as "more successful?"

 

 

The girls....good lord there is a sore spot. The relationship they have, It waxes and wanes with no rhyme or reason, just like most women do but now there is two of them. They are absolutely horrible at communication. They don't really hang out all that much just the two of them, they really only do it when it's become so bad between the two of them that they have to just to at least stay friendly. Of all of the different possible two-some dynamics they are close to the worst one, it's up there with wife two and her legal husband.

 

I do know that once or twice they compared notes on sex, and I know for sure one looks down on the other (while simultaneously envying her) that the other has a job that doesn't make as much but also affords her more free time.

 

I will give them credit in that they both deal with it really well, that lack of a real relationship, in that they rarely argue, and most times if it's the four of us you wouldn't notice an issue.

 

Like I said it's a sore spot. The best I can do is manipulate a little bit and set things up to where they magically have time alone. It's really up to them what they actually do with that time.

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Okay so it's really like 2 guys sharing 2 wives, or conversely I guess, 2 wives sharing their husbands. Husbands get along okay, wives get along okay albeit normal differences and well, some obvious not so normal, but understandable differences. Okay, now since both couples have a history of swinging, will that be something that you might get back to in the future, or are you getting all old fogie and settling down? What if someone came home and wanted to have a swinger or group party?

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Okay so it's really like 2 guys sharing 2 wives, or conversely I guess, 2 wives sharing their husbands. Husbands get along okay, wives get along okay albeit normal differences and well, some obvious not so normal, but understandable differences. Okay, now since both couples have a history of swinging, will that be something that you might get back to in the future, or are you getting all old fogie and settling down? What if someone came home and wanted to have a swinger or group party?

 

We've talked about it here and there. The truth about that is were probably more likely to swing when were actually old fogies, we're good looking 30 something's. We like the life we have now and the truth is out of all the swapping, number two is the best thing I ever found. By far. If we were swinging her and I would just be in a corner ****ing ignoring everyone else. The connection is that good, out of this world.

 

Incidentally day one of staycation is in the books and went killer. Went to bar out it in Scottsdale for a Tequila tasting and some tacos, then relaxed out at the hotel, first night staying at Talking Stick. Same room sex went well, nothing out of the ordinary, everyone was comfortable. It's been a really long time so that did worry me. I did have a sense of what was going on in the other bed and I was very much feeling competetive, so I was sweating to make sure I was knocking it out. Good times.

 

Woke up at 2 AM for a little 3-6 Limit, not doing to shabby. Someone just took down a pot with the Krablar raising pre flop and reraising every street until he hit the K on the river. Well played.

 

This will be the first time I left number two in bed by herself to go play some poker. Plenty of casinos we've stayed at but I always focus on her. We will see how she reacts. Winning would help I am sure.

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We've talked about it here and there. The truth about that is were probably more likely to swing when were actually old fogies, we're good looking 30 something's. We like the life we have now and the truth is out of all the swapping, number two is the best thing I ever found. By far. If we were swinging her and I would just be in a corner ****ing ignoring everyone else. The connection is that good, out of this world.

 

Incidentally day one of staycation is in the books and went killer. Went to bar out it in Scottsdale for a Tequila tasting and some tacos, then relaxed out at the hotel, first night staying at Talking Stick. Same room sex went well, nothing out of the ordinary, everyone was comfortable. It's been a really long time so that did worry me. I did have a sense of what was going on in the other bed and I was very much feeling competetive, so I was sweating to make sure I was knocking it out. Good times.

 

Woke up at 2 AM for a little 3-6 Limit, not doing to shabby. Someone just took down a pot with the Krablar raising pre flop and reraising every street until he hit the K on the river. Well played.

 

This will be the first time I left number two in bed by herself to go play some poker. Plenty of casinos we've stayed at but I always focus on her. We will see how she reacts. Winning would help I am sure.

 

My interest in asking about the swinging was more of a question about trust issues. Hell, many couples have a hard enough time with it, so I imagine it creates some challeneges. It's one thing to be proud of your "openess" but also have the rationalization that it has limits. I think I am somewhat jaded as a couple girls I know (dated, friends, whatever) that professed to being open were also the most jealous.

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My interest in asking about the swinging was more of a question about trust issues. Hell, many couples have a hard enough time with it, so I imagine it creates some challeneges. It's one thing to be proud of your "openess" but also have the rationalization that it has limits. I think I am somewhat jaded as a couple girls I know (dated, friends, whatever) that professed to being open were also the most jealous.

 

 

We don't so much have trust issues so much as what I would call "Why?" Issues. Like, number twos first husband is always befuddled by how she will react to me vs. him, way more favorably and to a degree where I will tell her "Baby, that's not fair. You're going to make this harder than it has to be." And she will just say "That's just how I feel."

 

It's not so much jealousy as much as it's the realization that each individual relationship does indeed have it's own level, and it's not always "fair."

 

I find myself getting jealous at odd times, like of it's "my" night and a good night kiss lingers to long. It's in my head though, and I never say a word. It's silliness at it's most silly, for lack of better words. I mean, in 20 minutes were going to be all kinds of tangled in the sheets, why should I care? But I do, a little, sometimes.

 

Comes with the territory I guess.

 

A little poker, that 3-6 session? Crazy table. Made 500 playing live 3-6 limit in 3 hours. Easily a personal best. Hit a few draws at the right time. Number two was cool with winning, lol.

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A little conversation with Mom recently, really irked me.

 

It's not that it bothers me that she doesn't agree with my life. I am okay with that. It's the way she presents her p.o.v. For example, saying that she thinks about the future and that my daughter will hate me, because I raised her not normal, and she won't have a shot at normal, while possibly true could be true of any parental relationship. Half of us hate out parents for no reason at all. Worse, she has no basis because she hasn't seen my daughter in a year, doesn't know our address, has never met the other significants....just no basis for her beliefs, my daughter has never been more supported. She is loved like crazy.

 

I think what really got me was the statement "I am just waiting for the day this ends so I can try not to say I told you so and this will be all over." I'm a better, more thoughtful, more complete man because of this. And happy....why actively root for the opposite? You don't have to come around all of the time, but why not give, a little,and just allow for my happiness?

 

I just don't get it. I Iove my mom but I moved away a long time ago and can't live my life for her....never really could, always wanted whati couldn't be, to be. Maybe that's what it just comes down to.

 

Better stuff....Summer 2013 first bash coming up 6/1! Breaking out the smoker, the grill, the strawberry habanero margaritas and the tequila super soakers and starting the year off right!

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Last couple of weeks have been down right incredible, everybody getting along swimmingly. Stayed a few nights at The Clarendon in downtown Phoenix....big gay hangout it turns out so given our alternative status we were a big hit. Had a great time! Had no idea about the big gay hangout, but it turned out to be a culinary windfall, really good food at the attached restaurant. Look forward to visiting again.

 

May is a big month for us, this was the month a year ago when we started really looking at moving in together. Interestingly enough, as of roughly ten days ago it's been a year since any of us have been swinging or been with anyone else. That's actually quite an accomplishment for this bunch.

 

Here's to another awesome year! It's starting out right, my schedule is changing and for the first time in like ten years I won't be working nights. Number two is really looking forward to trying on a normal existence for size, one where we are all home at night. I foresee issues where her and I pretty much just sleep with each other for awhile but we will see. Maybe that will be expected, the other two may be used to our selfish spurts by now.

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