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My Thoughts On Howard Lederer Playing Poker Again


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For me, Poker is a social experience. There are certain people who I'd refuse to give action, even if I had an edge, because I'd just rather not subject myself to dealing with the individual.

 

Does that represent a potential leak in my game?

 

Probably.

 

But my principles and personal philosophy are part of my self identity. Those values and how I apply them affect how I feel about and view myself. They far outweigh my profit motive.

 

For Daniel, Poker is his business. And I'd certainly understand him,or anyone else, taking Howard's money. But in "real life" in my personal business, I wouldn't do business with certain people even if I was going to make a good profit. I just don't want to sit down at the conference room table, poker table, or dining table with someone for whom I have no respect.

 

It is certainly a difficult and personal line that you need to draw.

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Lederer clearly isn't playing to win money - he's lonely and wants to feel included in the poker world - so even if you take his money you are giving him what he wants - if you want to make a moral st

Only before he turned 18.

Daniel, I think you should play.   If you find yourself in a game with him, I'd be really appreciative if you could bring this up with Howard. There was a guy named Paresh Jain who played online pok

Are those US cents or Canadian cents?

Hopefully Canadian, would damn near be worth more right now...

 

 

lol Damn it our $$$ is dropping, almost back at par, but the USA casino I played at charged 0.99 on Mon, Tues

 

 

.

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For me, Poker is a social experience. There are certain people who I'd refuse to give action, even if I had an edge, because I'd just rather not subject myself to dealing with the individual.

 

Does that represent a potential leak in my game?

 

Probably.

 

But my principles and personal philosophy are part of my self identity. Those values and how I apply them affect how I feel about and view myself. They far outweigh my profit motive.

 

For Daniel, Poker is his business. And I'd certainly understand him,or anyone else, taking Howard's money. But in "real life" in my personal business, I wouldn't do business with certain people even if I was going to make a good profit. I just don't want to sit down at the conference room table, poker table, or dining table with someone for whom I have no respect.

 

It is certainly a difficult and personal line that you need to draw.

 

 

So agree with this

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Tell the poker room manager that you would like to play poker, except that you won't sit at a table with a known cheater/scumbag. Given the choice between having you in their game or Howard, they may pick you. To improve your position, get a few other poker friends to join you, which shouldn't be too hard. Now you have a group of people tell the room manager either ban Howard or several other players will not play while he is at atable. This makes it a business decision for them, which they should choose your side.

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In my opinion, wear a T-shirt saying "Howard Lederer is Scum", walk into the room with a big smile, buy a nice bottle of something and make sure everyone gets a glass but Howard, refuse eye contact with him, play your session and keep a stack aside from the rest of your chips, keep track of every chip you win that Howard put in the pot and keep it as an FTP repayment fund. Maybe even go as far as put him at a table where you are staking the players sitting in for that session in order to get them to collude against him, which in this case seems perfectly inline with what Howard's expectations should be. In my mind being to eventually get scammed out of what money he has left, or end up drinking the wrong cocktail that leaves him spitting up sputum and choking on his own vomit in a pile of death on the floor...

I'm sure gamblers have seen it all, and any one who has ever made a profit knows it comes from someone else's loss or expenditure, but there is also natural law the comes into play, if there's is no law of the jungle recourse, what legitimacy may have found it's way to making a living off of poker should be gone. If there is no fear instilled in the hearts of men daring to do others wrong life will not be just...

It doesn't matter if you're working with bankers, or dealers, or software engineers, just as American citizens have been urged to maintain active militias in order to ward off those inconscionable souls perverting decency and gamesmanship, the poker world, and gambling world as a whole, will find itself at losing odds with these maestros and their plans. Fear is the only thing criminals understand...

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Obviously Coward Folderer and Annie Puke know how you feel about them. Play the game with him. If people choose to accept him back then let it be. Its not up to you whether he should play in the game or not. His reputation is runined and 90% of poker players know what he is really like. Just get on with the game and let the vendetta be. If you are in a group of people who feel the same as you then confront him at the table. If you do it on your own with people who are his friends with Lederer around him and playing then you will look like a fool. Its a tricky situation and he will get his share of abuse

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daniel. dont let your destain of HL affect your poker. if you happen to play his table, let him know how you feel, take his money and be done with it. have you played against someone in your past you didnt like? use that experience. take the high road. jeff (jd)

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Shame on Doyle and anyone else who plays with Howard! It makes them look really bad, so why would you want to stoop to that level, except to really give him a piece of your mind face to face.

To prove bravery isn't necessary, because we know you are.

To take his money is great, but what do you do with it after that? Isn't enough to pay off all the players.

If I were you, I wouldn't even want to set foot inside the same casino as him. Lastly, I think the only reason he gave interviews was so he could go back to a casino. Always the schemer, the con man, thinking about his next step. I don't trust him - WE don't trust him. Don't go, unless you're willing to do the time for punching him in the face...lol.

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I kinda' like the idea about wearing a t-shirt with a bold statement on it. I think that what you have written on your shirt would be more impactful if it was more on the tasteful side of clever than on the "in your face!" side.

 

I understand everyone's point about sitting down to play (not WITH him, but VS him) because it's your livelihood, that he's exploitable and it would be a profitable game for you so, "do it just to take his money" or whatever but, my question to you is:

 

Would you be clear headed and emotionally in check enough to play optimally in that game, or would you be on tilt before your 1st hand has been dealt? Yes, you are a world class professional, but you are still human. You seem to be emotionally charged about HL and justifiably so. Admittedly, you seem to switch gears in your video blog rants and can immediately smile and laugh about your next more pleasant topic, so... I don't know the answer. Only you know if you would play optimally with him at your table without any distractions.

 

I would say that if you are on revenge tilt, or that your pride is making you lose focus on the other opponents at the table, or that sitting across from him (maybe even right beside him) would make you lose self control (mentally/emotionally)... Then I'd say, no. Do not play at his table. Don't let pride get in the way. Playing anyways and making a bunch of justifications for sitting in that game when you know that you will play on tilt looks worse to me than if you avoided him until you knew that you could detach yourself emotionally when in his presence.

 

So, what if you do sit at a poker table where you are joining him and a few other players, (possibly even mutual friends, or your fans who you have no beef with)? Will they not feel torn, or feel like they are walking on eggshells if they engage in a friendly conversation with you, or HL? Will you be able to keep yourself from lecturing them when they carry on with Howard? Will this not potentially cause a rift with you and the others at the table? The collateral affect could make others feel like kids being stuck at the dinner table while their parents are fighting, or at the very best... not speaking, creating unbearable tension (awkward).

 

Consider all parties here who are there for the love of the game and do not want to be involved, or subject to any drama. Would your presence impact everyone there in negative way? Ask yourself if you're being considerate and respectful of the others at the table.

 

You are a man (poker personality) who is well liked in the poker community. You are well received for many reasons besides your poker talents (being approachable, personable and your overall jovial pleasantness are big reasons why you stand out from the rest)

 

I appreciate how you are standing up for those who have been wronged and that you are speaking out against those who have tarnished the image of poker on such a broad scale, but please try not to let this drag you down also. Don't let this make you a bitter person filled with hatred and negativity. Doing so will unintentionally sully your name and reputation for being that guy who represent all that is good about you and your friendly image.

 

I don't know if it matters to you, but... not only are you a great international ambassador of poker. You are also a wonderful global ambassador for CANADIANS. You've made our country proud to have you represent us, Daniel.

 

Please keep these things in mind. Don't let this person get the better of you. Don't allow the dark energy to consume your shining light.

 

Thank you for being a beacon for all poker players worldwide.

 

For what it's worth (just a fish from Toronto who's proud to say you're one of ours)

 

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I would think about your ability to play good poker with Howard at the table. You are sort of on tilt already regarding him, my fear (for you) is that you will try to hard to beat him. If he shows you a bluff early in the session you might lose all composure.

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I would think about your ability to play good poker with Howard at the table. You are sort of on tilt already regarding him, my fear (for you) is that you will try to hard to beat him. If he shows you a bluff early in the session you might lose all composure.

Not only that, but there is always the possibility of a lesser skilled player running over a superior player simply because he is having a great run of cards. Of course in the long run the superior player (Daniel) takes the money, but in the short run (even over a couple of sessions) the lesser player might take the money.
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There are two sides to this:

 

1) If you go with Option B, it'll be disruptive to the games and other players in the game might frown upon this as all they want is to play, and not bring up the FTP situation.

2) If you go with Option A, you're missing out on a lot of fun and money making opportunities because of one man.

 

There is a third option, as someone in this thread mentioned, where you play in the games but don't look or engage in conversation (which isn't really your style).

 

In my opinion, you should tell him how you feel honestly and then leave it at that. Anymore attacks his way would only lead to discomfort for everyone else in the cardroom (maybe)

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I think that you are too clever and principled to do either and this obviously IS a matter of principle to you. Here is an idea, perhaps you should start a fund, the contents of which could be used toward filing a class action lawsuit against him...you could donate all or a portion of the money you make off of Howard to this cause and encourage others to do the same either privately or publicly. This would both discourage him from showing his face in places where people hate him, make him uncomfortable in settings where he otherwise might feel comfortable and ultimately give poetic justice should something come of it.

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Take his money and tell him what you think if that's how strong you feel about it. Why sit out and take pressure off him? If I have a problem with someone, I let them know about it. Be straight forward. Some people complain about how you care so much, I think that's BS. It's good to see a huge icon to poker like yourself actually care enough to stand up and lay the smack down.

 

Forget opinions to be honest, you do what YOU feel like doing, what makes you comfortable.

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I don't know DN so I am not in a position to recommend how he should deal w playing in a cash game w HL but I am inclined to think that he is putting a lot of unnecessary thought and energy into a negative situation. As for the rest of the poker community, the petitions and peer pressure on HL is all fine and dandy but at the end of the day why don't some of the high limit players just grab HL off the felt and let him know he is not to come around any more. You don't need none of this high school girl gossip, petitions, etc. You don't need to be a capable guy to tell this POS he can't come around. If just one guy that has been affected by HL would stop bitching and moaning and just handle his business, HL would probably stop coming around. You can't negotiate fairness with someone like HL, apparently, so make him feel your point.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had a bunch of family members pissed off @ me for something I did--I said a bunch of shitty stuff about family . Most relatives were confronting me face to face as that is how my family deals with shit. I was able to blow them off pretty much. But the one that got to me the most was my sister-in-law. She politely ignored me. Would only talk to me if I directly asked her a question & she wasn't able to pretend she didn't hear me & then she was polite but short with her answers. We were in a situation once where she & I were alone for about 5 minutes & she tolerated the awkward silence and just stood there calmly. I was squirming-- The 5 minutes seemed like 15 hours. As soon as someone else came up to us, she started chatting & laughing with them. She never answered my wife's emails or calls. She sent Christmas cards to everyone but my wife & me. The way she treated me bugged me way,way more than more than those who tried to embarrass me or sent nasty emails or confronted me face to face--those people just made me defensive & pissed off even tho I knew what I did was wrong . She was the only one that really made me truly remorseful & actually taught me a lesson.

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