how depressing... can anyone help?

[DeliChef 0]

Hey Akishore (aseem),My first post here, but after reading your post I felt compelled to reply.It must suck having something you enjoy so much and are passionate about and you can't share that part of your life with your folks. It sounds like they wouldn't want to support it no matter how many good arguements you come up with, because they fear you'll veer off course. When your parents are paying for your school, they don't want to hear about how much money you're making playing poker....even if it could help foot the bill. They want to hear about what a great education you're getting, this in their mind is the best gift they can give you. Most of the people who go off to college, don't call their folks with stories about getting drunk or other "recreational" activities they have had so much fun with....unfortunately, poker probably falls into this category for now.Fear not, you are in a GREAT situation. You've got a couple more years of school and you'll have a degree from one of the top schools in the country. Make the most of this time! Have fun! Get a kickass education (notice I didn't say good grades, actually learn something while you're there....don't be one of those boners who memorize everything right before a test and then forget it all the day after) and use it to give back to the world however you see fit. Line yourself up with a great career and love what you do. Poker will still be there. You don't have to stop playing or take it any less seriously. Work hard and play hard.Forcing the issue with your folks is a losing battle. They don't need to accept it...and as long as they are footing the bill for school, they don't even need to allow it. It's one thing to feel bad about not being able to share it because you know they won't like it....it's another thing to be going behind their backs to play after they have forbid it while you're in school. A common phrase amongst us married folks is "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission". So have fun, go play and build up a bankroll. Some people drink too much in college, some people smoke too much pot....you play poker. It's the healthiest of the three. Just don't let it get in the way of school. When you find yourself skipping classes to play in tournies, then you've probably crossed the line.I agree with your bro, use poker winnings to make your life easier. If you really want to help out your parents, save the money you make playing poker and when you graduate, offer it then...or use it for a down payment on a house (or if you've been running good, buy it outright!). Being in a position to move out and be independent after school might be the best gift you could give them in return! You could go and blow it on jet ski's or a fancy car or something useless, but why not set yourself up to start out your life with a nice cushion. I started out after school with about 10k in credit card debt and a 20k car loan...and it weighs on you. I sure wish my friends played poker in school rather than Magic the Gathering!Good luck, you're smart, you'll figure it out.

[ddudley 0]

the point of this thread is just to get some feedback from all of you. did any of you have problems explaining these things to family and friends? how did you deal with it? do you still hide it? did you learn to just ignore others' objections? i'm really thinking of just compiling a big list of as many arguments as i can, and maybe if i decide to open up about poker to my parents sometime, i can just throw them as many arguments as i've got.

I played poker full-time for 8 months before I told anyone in my family I was playing. Then, over Christmas I decided it was time to come clean. I had the unpleasant task of trying to explain to my family why I left a successful career as an Architect to become a full time poker player. Needless to say it was a hard sell. I found out there is still a great misunderstanding of poker in the general public (or at least in my family). Especially in the older population like my parents and grandparents. However, I am lucky because my family is extremely tolerant of doing what makes you happy. So, I think most of them accepted it on that basis, but most of them still thought I was crazy. My father was especially tough, so I told him that it was like I was starting my own business. I started with a $500 initial investment and I actually made a profit on 10K in the first 8 months. In what other business can you do that? I also used the casio blackjack table comparison. Me playing poker is like a casino running a blackjack table... in the short run they may win or lose big, but in the long run that table will always make money.With your parents, have you tried flipping the TV over to a poker broadcast? Then you could start educating them on the facts about poker... when most people are confronted with the fact about poker it is an eye opening experience. I'm not saying to tell them that you play poker but at least you could let them know that you've watched it on TV and know a little about it. In fact I wouldn't tell them until you've graduated and have a full-time job.On a side note, I think I finally won my father over when I was able to call him and tell him that I had won 30K in a tournament. But, he keeps telling me to be careful and not lose it all. I just tell tell him that it's a statistical impossibility, but I still don't think he believes me.If your brother plays poker and doesn't realize that winning is sustainable, I would question whether you are actually related or not. Maybe there was a mix up at the hospital?? I don't see how an intelligent person who plays poker couldn't understand that winning poker is not only sustainable but is mathimatically probability. He sounds like a lost cause. Maybe, you could use a few bucks of poker profits to buy him a good poker book from Amazon.com and have it sent to him. Maybe he will read it and he will see the light. Until then, further discussion with him would seem pointless.If you don't need the money why not save it so that you can play higher limits? Or you could put it in an IRA or buy a nice mutual fund (the power of compounding is quite amazing). I wish I had started saving for retirement when I was 18 or 19. Don't forget that you need to pay taxes on your winnings before you decide what to do with the rest. You could do something like 40% taxes, 30% savings, 30% back to bankroll. You could also send yourself to a poker camp or go on a poker cruise. You could also take a trip to Vegas for the WSOP and play in a $1500 Tournament Satelite.

[sonnyvegas 0]

I will say that the above post by Deli Chef has some pretty good advice in it. This is my first post here though I have been reading quite a bit - I guess your plight has inspired a number of responses though I will say the back and forth bashing that the replies got into became quite tiresome.In any case, my advice comes from someone who has lived a lot in my 29 years on this earth. I will say this:GET YOUR EDUCATION GET YOUR EDUCATIONGET YOUR EDUCATIONGRADUATE GRADUATE GRADUATE (it doesn't even matter what you choose to study, just pick something you like and earn your degree as quickly as possible.)I finished my degree at University of Michigan on schedule in 4 years and graduated at 21 (many of my friends put things off, some for better reasons than others, but I promise you that you will be happier if you finish quickly - that's the best advice I can give - well finish school and HAVE FUN along the way of course!)As far as poker goes, if you know your parents are not going to see things the way you would like then I would say don't even bring it up. BUT, keep the poker recreational! Don't blow off classes for poker, that's a problem. Believe me I know that poker can become addictive (I am not sure that's the best word and I am not trying to spark a debate here, but let's be honest a lot of people need their "poker fix" whether they are winning, losing or breaking even). So just have fun, if you make some extra money then spend it whereever you think it will have the most impact or save for post graduation expenses. Don't try to get your parents to accept something that they won't. Just do what makes you happy, but know from someone who has won and lost : ) more money than a lot of people see that education should be your number one priority right now. Everything else will fall into place as you get a little older so fear not!!Cheers from Summerlin - Las Vegas - NV.

[tosr 0]

I feel for you Aseem. i think you've approached your problem with maturity, while your parents are unable to operate outside their fear and prejudice. People very very rarely change. You simply have to accept that your parents are incapable of acting logically when they have a strong emotional investment in a situation. That being the case, you must realize that at 18, the number of years you are under their control are limited, and soon you will be able to do whatever you wish. Be patient, make your parents happy while accepting their faults as I'm sure they've done for you many times over the last 18 years. And remember, when strong emotions are involved, logic is next to useless... regardsPaulps if it was me I'd leave home and do whatever the hell I liked... in fact I did that.

[HatTrick 0]

But, he keeps telling me to be careful and not lose it all. I just tell tell him that it's a statistical impossibility, but I still don't think he believes me.

Anyone who believes that losing everything is statistically impossible should not be giving advice about playing poker. Do you realize how many pros have been broke at one time or another? Maybe they were never told that losing it all was " a statistical impossibility."

[custom36 4]

But, he keeps telling me to be careful and not lose it all. I just tell tell him that it's a statistical impossibility, but I still don't think he believes me.

Anyone who believes that losing everything is statistically impossible should not be giving advice about playing poker. Do you realize how many pros have been broke at one time or another? Maybe they were never told that losing it all was " a statistical impossibility."

He didn't say that losing is impossible - he said losing all of his bankroll is. And, following bankroll management techniques, he's right.

[HatTrick 0]

He didn't say that losing is impossible - he said losing all of his bankroll is. And, following bankroll management techniques, he's right.

The only bankroll management technique that will stop you from losing your whole bankroll is one that requires you to stop playing poker at some point. There is no bankroll management technique which makes it "a statistical impossibility" to lose all your money while continuing to play poker.

[sonnyvegas 0]

HatTrick wrote: ddudley wrote: But, he keeps telling me to be careful and not lose it all. I just tell tell him that it's a statistical impossibility, but I still don't think he believes me. Anyone who believes that losing everything is statistically impossible should not be giving advice about playing poker. Do you realize how many pros have been broke at one time or another? Maybe they were never told that losing it all was " a statistical impossibility." He didn't say that losing is impossible - he said losing all of his bankroll is. And, following bankroll management techniques, he's right.

I certainly tend to disagree that losing or losing a significant chunk of one's bankroll is impossible or even near impossible. Phil Ivey, in his own admission, was kept near broke for quite some time (he kept running into Henry Orenstein - inventor of "Transformers" and "the hole card camera" we all love - Henry wasn't EVER going broke, but a young Phil had that risk). I have heard from several sources, don't know if /where it might be documented that Johnny Chan had a roughly 3 year stretch of bad luck/bad cards. Like I said, not sure where to confirm it, but it could be anyone at anytime, You catch bad cards/bad luck or statistical deviation that is beyond the normal (it happens!) and you, I, or most of the poker pros could find themselves in need of backing to get back in the game.I haven't seen Gus Hansen around lately in Las Vegas - he was not at the Mirage that I saw at all for the recent WPT event. Heard he is stuck to the big game - anyone else hear same? Also have heard same thing about several other names. In any case, it's better to be Barry Greenstein (Symantec) or Andy Beal (Banker) and have that behind you first. Then it doesn't matter whether you run bad for a looooooonnnnng time 8) Cheers!

[KsItLoLnEeR 0]

Aseem,Hopefully this reply wont get lost among some of the worthless ones. Unlike some of these people, I read your post and payed attention to it. No where in your post did you say you were going to play for a living in fact you said the opposite. Its a shame people have such little reading skills.Anyway I play for a living. I personally think that you are going about poker the best way. You have a good balance and your priorities are straight. The way poker is now with online you can put in the same ammount of hands a B&M pro puts in, in about 1/4 of the time thus leaving time for school and work, etc.No disrespect intended and im sure your brother is a good person, but on this subject he is very ignorant. What really struck me was his comment that a 0.01% chance is still a chance. This is grossly unreasonable comment and to me it shows that this is a person you do not want to discuss poker with and I understand your disapointment here.I personally dont tell people what I do, I just say that I run my own buisness or I am self employed. My parents and friends dont know and I dont care. I feel no desire to have them know or to discuss it with them unless they are intersted and open minded. I have no time or tolerance for ignorance. I know what the facts are, the fact is I make enough money to live my life playing poker and I have the detailed records to prove it. The only person I need to prove this to is myself and my wife. My wife is cool with it because she saw the records and she sees the bills getting paid and she sees her trips to the mall getting paid for by my poker winnings. So my advice to you is keep it to yourself and whoever you deem cool enough to discuss it with. And I also want to say that I find it highly offensive that someone would comment and disrespect you and say that its stupid to ask "cyber strangers" advice. That is grossly ignorant. Without these forums and the ones at 2+2 and pocketfives I never would have been able to go pro or full time. (I am not comfertable calling myself a pro so I prefer full time.)Anyway dont let those fools stop you from asking advice. Most of them dont even know enough to give an informed opinion anyway.So good luck man and I hope all goes well for you. Peace.

[AspiringPro 0]

i tell u what quit poker and get proper job poker doesnt make ne1 feel happy it just gets u hooked until inevitably a hand comes along which u play perfectly and sum1 hits 2 out wiv one card to come. how do u not go on tilt u mite as well give away ur bankroll. who has ever had 1300 in their poker account and lost 950 and withdrw the remaining 350it takes a bit of bottle man i hate losing

[checkymcfold 0]

hi aseem-i don't know if you're still watching this thread, but i think my "story of poker and parents" might be helpful.my parents/family expressed similar concerns when i told them that i had begun to use poker income as a necessary supplement to fund my graduate study (in religious studies, of all things--doesn't quite fit with the gambling, eh?). they basically freaked out at me, and told me that they'd prefer i took out a 10,000 dollar loan to pay for the living expenses not covered by my teaching assignment (my paycheck for teaching pays rent+30 dollars a month, not including bills, etc.) rather than play poker in order to eat and have electricity.i kind of knew my parents were wrong, and i didn't listen. i told them i'd look into loans, but didn't, and kept playing cards. playing for necessary income made me get even more serious about my game, which has improved significantly over the last 8 months even though i was a winning player before. (but of course, that's just a side benefit)the real point of all this is that i kind of just lied to my parents--thought it may be different since i'm 24--and didn't tell them about poker again until it was in a letter with a check for 5 grand to pay off an old car loan and the money i borrowed from them in the move. they still were a bit skeptical, but after two more checks of over 2000 dollars (one buying my extremely poor family a deck for which they did not have the money, and one to pay off my last credit card bill ever), they finally "allowed" me to do what i had been doing in spite of them. i realize that i was quite lucky in my quick moves up the bankroll/limit ladder, but that's not the point here. what i mean to help you with is saying that, at least for my very similar situation, the money (and more importantly, consistent money) eventually had to do the talking. i fought and fought with my parents about how i didn't need to take out a loan unless i had to blow my entire bankroll in an emergency, but they didn't believe me until i SHOWED them. i'm not trying to say that this will work for you, but if you really are a winning player (and judging by most of your posts, you are), you may be able to show them with money, and not just once or twice. it may take frequent displays of exorbitant wins to win them over in the end.but in any case, good luck with everything. and DON'T drop out of school, whatever you do. if you're at MIT, you're a smart one. stick with that unless it gets unbearable.

[21gambit 0]

youre going to MIT? wtf are you talking about, an important source of your income, something doesnt fit here buddy. So many stories that I find hard to believe. You were a skilled cheat for years and cheated people all the time but have now reformed your ways BUT YOU ARE 18! Youre going to MIT but poker is going to be a major source of income for you even though you dont plan on playing it professionally. You are a great writer but I think youre either a compulsive liar or a bullshit artist.

[ddudley 0]

Anyone who believes that losing everything is statistically impossible should not be giving advice about playing poker. Do you realize how many pros have been broke at one time or another?  Maybe they were never told that losing it all was " a statistical impossibility."

Do you know how many pros play outside their bankroll and blow through tens of thousands of dollars partying, etc.?My bankroll is 55K and I play 10/20. You do the math.

[SOWhatKid 0]

you live a secret life too? just tell em you play poker and you love the game! There's alot worse things people have done for money for example street fighting for money not much worse than that

[ddudley 0]

youre going to MIT? wtf are you talking about, an important source of your income, something doesnt fit here buddy. So many stories that I find hard to believe. You were a skilled cheat for years and cheated people all the time but have now reformed your ways BUT YOU ARE 18! Youre going to MIT but poker is going to be a major source of income for you even though you dont plan on playing it professionally. You are a great writer but I think youre either a compulsive liar or a censored artist.

Wow, for having 620 post you are quite ignorant. If you have ever read any of Aseem's posts you would know that:1) He is a very good poker player.2) He is very intelligent.3) He is a nice and honest person.4) He plays in a live game in Boston/Cambridge with other FCP members who can verify he goes to MIT.Even if you are only making 25K a year playing poker and 100K a year from a regular job that is still a significant amount of money.

[akishore 0]

youre going to MIT? wtf are you talking about, an important source of your income, something doesnt fit here buddy. So many stories that I find hard to believe. You were a skilled cheat for years and cheated people all the time but have now reformed your ways BUT YOU ARE 18!

you misread my post back then. i was never a skilled cheat for years. i haven't even been playing poker for a year. i cheated for about three months, and yes, i've reformed since then.

Youre going to MIT but poker is going to be a major source of income for you even though you dont plan on playing it professionally. You are a great writer but I think youre either a compulsive liar or a censored artist.

many people believe that every ivy league school graduate is hugely successful after college. the same people probably believe that every MIT graduate is hugely successful after college. those people, like you, are often mistaken. i work as a telephone solicitor for MIT also, which means i call MIT alums to ask for donations, and on our computer screens, we have the employment information of each person we call (many employers match nonprofit donations). i can tell you that a large number of MIT alums are either unemployed, underemployed or simply not as successful as many would believe an MIT alum would be. and regardless, if it's not uncommon for someone to make $50k a year multi-tabling $3/6 online, what kind of income would you expect me to make such that this $50k wouldn't be a major source of income for me?aseem

[akishore 0]

thanks again to everyone for offering their advice. this entire thread has been bookmarked, and i'm sure i'll keep referring to all these posts for a while to come. i'm also wading through many PM's--again, thanks for the help.for now, i'm probably just going to keep it low for a while. i think the father who posted here saying that i shouldn't bring this up until i graduate brought up a very good point--my parents have good intentions, and because of all the money they're paying, they probably want to see me excel in my studies rather than doing something (poker) which, in their eyes, is a waste of time and resources compared to what MIT has to offer.i hope that after i graduate, i'll be able to open up to them about this and that they'll be able to understand and at least accept my choice. as for my brother, i think i'm better off just letting him be also. maybe he's right about some things, i don't know, but i don't think he really understands the intricacies of poker. it's probably just something he's not completely familiar with and doesn't understand, so he naturally rejects/fears those things. human nature, i suppose.thanks again, everyone, for all your help. feel free to post any more thoughts if any of you want to.aseem

[hoser_71 0]

It's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. You know how they're going to act, so why bother going through that mess? Keep doing what you planned on doing and when you're successful they'll get over it.

[elkang 0]

Thanks for the thread Aseem. I feel I can empathize with your situation.Meanwhile, my relatives believe that I have a new "internet business". And now, I've stopped giving my wife details about things. Daniel had a good article related to this which I hope you've seen already. Things are just easier that way. Common to many cultures it's easier to hide these "shameful" things. I look forward to the day when I can be entirely candid but realistically no one really understands unless they are part of the poker world.Treat it like you would any other (moral) dilemma - spend time and figure out your options, act and re-evaluate. But I think the decision is clear. Be strong about your choice and you have a greater chance of success.

[lind0 0]

Most people don't get it. They don't want to get it. They think gambling is gambling and that you will lose if you keep it up. Luckily for people like us, people like them play poker in abundance. Let's just keep the secret.