DJ Vu 176 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I haven't watched any of these, but from what I hear apparently Lederer is saying that Erick Lindgren was given $4m on what was supposed to be a $2m loan, but he just kept the extra money and never returned it (or paid the loan back). Is that accurate? And it looks like Daniel is defending him on Twitter. He's not denying it, just saying he was right not to pay anything back? Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 this is totally unbiased http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/09/five-thoughts-howard-lederer-speaks-13431.htm he says it's fascinating - lederer is definitely telling the truth and chris ferguson didn't care about making money at all what great unbiased journalism!!! Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 http://www.reddit.co...th_30_plausible The Lederer Files: 30% Truth, 30% Plausible Deniability, 30% Lies, and 10% ****ing Bullshit. (self.poker) submitted 2 hours ago by ftpinsider I'm sure most of you don't really need to be told that, but alas, I need to vent. I worked for FTP at a high level and watching these Howard videos has moved me from rage to sadness to sympathy to ****ing god damn rage again. Howard has always been great at navigating his media persona and this is no different. It’s damage control to his image, and more importantly, to establish his plausible deniability in what happened. Cutting to the chase, if you want someone to hate for your FTP troubles, it’s Ray Bitar and Gil Coronado, who knew exactly what they were doing. I can’t say for sure if Howard knew the depths of their incompetence and where they were taking the company. I can say that with the move to Dublin, Howard really did lose touch with what was going on. Did Howard and company empower Ray and turn a blind eye to what was happening, most definitely. I remember when guys like Perry and Juanda disappeared, they saw the writing on the wall, sure it took some years for them to be proved right, but here we are. Oh, and I do remember Alan’s last name. lol. He was a good guy and left because he also realized it was a bad company to hitch his wagon to. It disgusts me that despite board members realizing how incompetent Ray was that he was allowed to continue running the company. It disgusts me that Howard is trying paint a bad picture of board members who recognized a problem. FTP was always run like an old boy’s club, protect the tribe versus doing what’s right. The loans we floated guys like Matusow and were disgusting. We couldn’t enforce our normal policies against “big poker names” when the situation warranted. We were told “I’ll talk to them.” From Howard himself. I hated it. • Aldernay License? – Yeah, they lied and fudged numbers to get it. No big deal. • The idea that they didn’t know they were circumventing banking protocols is absolutely ridiculous. • Hiring competent managers? LMAO … Just check out how many Bitar family members were on the payroll. • If you do some research, you’ll find several lawsuits from previous employees and other’s who have dealt with FTP’s unethical behavior. • Player’s rights and experience were never a priority, getting their money was. This doesn’t come as a surprise to anyone who had to deal with customer service. Anyways… feel free to AMAA … about the Howard videos or my time with FTP. In order to protect my identity and previous coworkers I'll be general and non-specific in some areas. Proof: here are some internal documents only an employee would have had access to.. have fun looking at how we did things. If this isn’t enough… let me know and I’ll do a 7 hour interview to try and prove my legitimacy. http://www.hyperfileshare.com/d/dfa91d19 Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I haven't watched any of these, but from what I hear apparently Lederer is saying that Erick Lindgren was given $4m on what was supposed to be a $2m loan, but he just kept the extra money and never returned it (or paid the loan back). Is that accurate? And it looks like Daniel is defending him on Twitter. He's not denying it, just saying he was right not to pay anything back? I think you're mixing up the two points. Lindgren is/was maybe the biggest degenerate gambler you can imagine any money that he got his hands on he blew gambling including the extra money that he was sent in that loan I would imagine. Daniel's point I think isn't about Lindgren but about other people who owed Tilt money who didn't want to pay it back to the cluster**** that was FTP by that time run by Ray Bitar and Howard Lederer. It wasn't just Lindgren who didn't pay any loans back according to Lederer but everybody other than him. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 we need a video blog on this whole thing plus i know he doesn't want to call out a friend but if he is going to rag on annie duke etc it's probably time for him to talk about Erick - he's never avoided a topic so even though i know they are friends and loyalty is really important it's probably time to say something - esp if he wants to be the truth teller for the poker community in this regard no offense DN just my opinion - Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 meh, DN seems to be doing a decent amount of protecting of lindgren to Haralabos on twitter imo Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I think you're mixing up the two points. Lindgren is/was maybe the biggest degenerate gambler you can imagine any money that he got his hands on he blew gambling including the extra money that he was sent in that loan I would imagine. Daniel's point I think isn't about Lindgren but about other people who owed Tilt money who didn't want to pay it back to the cluster**** that was FTP by that time run by Ray Bitar and Howard Lederer. It wasn't just Lindgren who didn't pay any loans back according to Lederer but everybody other than him. So what are you saying Erick didn't pay back the loans because he lost the money? He did pay them back? I don't understand how you borrow 2 million dollars and get 4 million dollars what is that all about? Link to post Share on other sites
DJ Vu 176 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 meh, DN seems to be doing a decent amount of protecting of lindgren to Haralabos on twitter imo This is how I heard about it. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 So what are you saying Erick didn't pay back the loans because he lost the money? He did pay them back? I don't understand how you borrow 2 million dollars and get 4 million dollars what is that all about? Lederer said that $2 Million was put in Lindgren's Tilt account as a loan which was then transferred to another Tilt player who withdrew the money and that because Tilt was so screwed up they also wired $2 Million to Lindgren's bank account which was a mistake. The first $2 Million probably was to pay off a gambling debt and he used the $2 Million to his bank to either gamble with or pay off other previous gambling debts. This is all a guess by me but knowing the mindset of degenerate gamblers it probably happened something like that. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda I think @pokernews did good job asking so many tough questions, but HL got away from most by simply saying I DON'T KNOW #LedererFiles John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda For the record, Howard Lederer was wrong when he said I was 2nd largest shareholder of FTP! Maybe he REALLY didn't know!!???#LedererFiles John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda As Ray Bitar's boss, Howard Lederer should've accepted more blames instead of trying to shift blames to everyone else.#LedererFiles Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 So Erick just stole the other 2 mill than right? - I know he's in trouble and i was told at the wsop 2007 that he was a great tipper but he's clearly in Brad Booth territory right? https://twitter.com/haralabob totally went off on him I admire daniel for sticking with him but he needs rehab or something - declaring bankruptcy is one thing but that doesn't seem to relieve you of personal gambling debts according to the "code" they always talk about Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 the thing that offends me the most is that these guys had a foolproof business that was just printing money and they somehow through arrogance or stupidity actually f-ed it up if you can't get player deposit money than don't give them money - you've already made a fortune - if the USA GOV ended it thank your lucky stars you made as much as you did and wait for it to be legalized like Poker Stars did haven't watched all the vids yet - they are godawful boring and he's just throwing everyone under the bus but it sounds like no one but juanda and dwan is getting away from this without needed some kinda russ hamilton perma ban Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 daniel starting poker mountain or whatever it was looks like genius now - he was lucky he avoided tilt and went with stars hope Jen Harmon isn't tainted i love her - will broke Mike Matusow now finally really be broke? Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 joan was apparently right about Las Vegas Poker Players Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Daniel's point I think isn't about Lindgren but about other people who owed Tilt money who didn't want to pay it back to the cluster**** that was FTP by that time run by Ray Bitar and Howard Lederer. It wasn't just Lindgren who didn't pay any loans back according to Lederer but everybody other than him. John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda I owe FTP $256K, was offered to settle for 80% but declined when I found out Ray, w/boards' approval,was still taking home 200K+/mo post BF John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda Instead I offered to pay 100% as soon as I could be certain it'd go toward paying players NOT management salary&lawyers fees#LedererFiles Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I watched that whole season of Apprentice. Take a wild guess who Annies big donors were... Howard, Perry Friedman, Phil Gordon... lol. Yep Joan was spot on. Link to post Share on other sites
EStormOk 0 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I like how people are blaming the Fulltilt Pros for taking the payments that were due to them by FTP. I suppose they wouldn't have taken the payments. I can understand people blaming them if they took payments BF, but I doubt if many of them got paid after that day. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda Howard didn't mention in his interview that FTP management also stole 5.4M from my best friend@Erik_Seidel #LedererFiles John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda What would u do in my shoes? Send check to same ppl who just stole from ur buddy?Or wait+hope to pay to the right parties?#LedererFiles John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda When I said 'right parties' I didn't mean @Erik_Seidel bcos he shouldn't have priority over the players but he should prolly be next in line Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I don't mind the guy in the commercials getting paid for their endorsements and not looking into the finances cuz i'd be lazy too - but taking loans is kind of weird - do any of these guys really have the money they made us think that they had? Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Part 7 and final part Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Dave Behr@ftrainpoker HL put pressure on @TomDwan to pay back 1MM loan "so the company could buy another month" -- but HL didn't return any of his own distribs. Link to post Share on other sites
JubilantLankyLad 1,957 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Dave Behr@ftrainpoker HL put pressure on @TomDwan to pay back 1MM loan "so the company could buy another month" -- but HL didn't return any of his own distribs. That's just because he couldn't remember if actually received any or not. Link to post Share on other sites
QED 4 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 It doesn't really sound like any of the owners cared what was going on. The impression I get was that no one really invested a big amount in the company in the first place so as long as the dividends kept rolling in no one had any interest in how the company is run. Even when things went to hell they couldn't even scrape together a board to take over, doesn't strike me as a bunch that had much interest in what happened to their company or players money. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Haralabos Voulgaris @haralabob Can you imagine how batshit crazy @realkidpoker would have gone if it was @annieduke who rec'd that extra 2m and made no plans to return it? Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 John Juanda@LuckBoxJuanda IMO Lederer didn't do interview bcos he's sorry. He did it2 settle old scores+put blame on ppl who disagreed w/how he ran FTP #LedererFiles Link to post Share on other sites
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