2012 Nhl Labour Troubles Thread

[Zach6668 513]

And yeah, thanks Arp, I was going to go off about Bettman. I LOVE defending him. He can't do anything if he doesn't have the approval of the owners, and the Sniders and Jacobs and the Dolans seem to be running the show.

[serge 904]

Because the "most successful off the ice franchises" have nothing to do with on the ice play, it's merely a factor of geography and population base. Why alienate the other 26 teams in the league? It's stupid. Those teams fortunate enough to be in the few huge markets SHOULD be subsidizing other markets. They need teams to play against, they need 30 teams to sell tickets to 1230 games each year, TV revenues from 1230 games, etc.

 

There needs to be greater revenue sharing. The NFL has it, do you see the bigger market teams complaining about it?

 

The MLB is a mess with their disparity among the haves and have nots.

 

Having said that, the NBA players get 50%, the NFL players get 48%. The NHLPA needs to (and probably does) realize that they'll need to eventually get it down to 50%. The owners need to realize that they can't ask for it all at once. That's absurd. They need to take a bit of a correction to something like 54, and drop it 0.5% for each of 8 years, the length of my proposed CBA, or something like that.

 

This is easy, let's get this done.

 

Ok please call Gary and Don and get this shit done.

[Fenxis 99]

Because the "most successful off the ice franchises" have nothing to do with on the ice play, it's merely a factor of geography and population base. Why alienate the other 26 teams in the league? It's stupid. Those teams fortunate enough to be in the few huge markets SHOULD be subsidizing other markets. They need teams to play against, they need 30 teams to sell tickets to 1230 games each year, TV revenues from 1230 games, etc.

 

Also... with a min salary floor and without revenue sharing there will always been basket case teams. Phoenix moves to Kitchener / Quebec City? Then league revenues will go up and the next tier of marginal teams will be in deep trouble. You HAVE to have revenue sharing or put up with crap parity in the league.

[serge 904]

Also... with a min salary floor and without revenue sharing there will always been basket case teams. Phoenix moves to Kitchener / Quebec City? Then league revenues will go up and the next tier of marginal teams will be in deep trouble. You HAVE to have revenue sharing or put up with crap parity in the league.

 

I agree with this partially..The problem I have with it is that why as a Leafs fan , i am partially responsible for paying the salaries of the Phoenix Coyotes.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I understand wanting the competitive advantage, but I know you know that as a Leafs fan you already pay for Bettman, NHL offices, and for every game you watch, put money into the NHL's coffers. Its not just the Leafs you watch, its the NHL.

 

I actually believe that if there are enough smart minds, they can come up with a system that both helps the bottom teams with rev sharing, and still benefits the more profitable teams with some sort of fluid luxury tax based on revenues.

 

I also believe that the Leafs and the other profitable teams have considered a luxury tax, and quickly dismissed it. They don't want to be able to spend more....maybe Burke does, you as a fan sure wish they could, but Bell/Rogers sure as hell don't.

[Zach6668 513]

 

 

I agree with this partially..The problem I have with it is that why as a Leafs fan , i am partially responsible for paying the salaries of the Phoenix Coyotes.

 

Because you need teams to play against. Nobody wants to see a 6-team league. You have 30 teams your team gets 41 home games, 1230 total NHL games with which league revenue can be gained...

[FCP Bob 1,312]

[Mercury69 3]

lol

[serge 904]

A month ago I though there is no way cancelling the season was an option..But now I am not so sure..

 

very sad..

 

I think Oct 15 is the real deadline. Thats when the players are set to receive their first paycheques.

 

It makes no sense..Dont the owners realize if you cancel the season there goes $3 billion (whatever the number is) and on the other end, players are fighting for a few percent...But if season is cancelled there goes all your millions for the year, that you will never recover.

[DJ Vu 176]

It makes no sense..Dont the owners realize if you cancel the season there goes $3 billion (whatever the number is) and on the other end, players are fighting for a few percent...But if season is cancelled there goes all your millions for the year, that you will never recover.

 

From the owners' perspective, they get their TV money even if the season is cancelled. So maybe receiving TV money and not paying player salaries is a good formula for them. Or, at least, not bad enough that they'll have to cave before the players do.

 

I feel like the owners/leagues generally do better than the players do in these lockouts/strikes.

 

The shortened NBA season wasn't that bad of a thing though. Seasons should be shorter anyway.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

are they still locked out? losers.

I agree with Serge's last comment....at some point the dollars your fighting for become the lessor of the dollars your losing every day. I just dont know when that is exactly.

 

 

also, there's an article out there on the interweb about how Hartnell has a charity golf tourney that a whole bunch of Flyers team officials werent allowed to come out for. (Clarke, Laviolette++...). And there's another one of a small town in Ontario of 5k that was supposed to get an exhibition game that now looks like will at least be postponed. Someone had a great idea....why dont the players just go play anyway! nope, too obvious.

 

I think sometimes the NHL gets a worse rap than it deserves, but other times, I wonder who the fck is in charge of PR with this league, and where they got their education from.

[Zach6668 513]

Previous dollars lost SHOULDN'T affect speed of negotiations. Those are sunk costs that will never be recovered.

 

The only variable is future losses by not taking a deal at a lower rate immediately, vs waiting out a better deal. That is something you could likely find an economic equilibrium for, but it would rely on some hefty assumptions on what a new proposal could look like if the players hold out longer.

 

 

[Zach6668 513]

That's using rational economic theory though, there's likely something to be said for the mental effect of previously "lost" money, as you say.

[Fenxis 99]

From the owners' perspective, they get their TV money even if the season is cancelled.

 

They'll get their money THIS year but they will be tacking on an 'free' year at the end of the contract. Also there's a bunch of teams (like Buffalo w/ ~$20m) paying out a fortune in bonuses w/ revenues.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Previous dollars lost SHOULDN'T affect speed of negotiations. Those are sunk costs that will never be recovered.

 

The only variable is future losses by not taking a deal at a lower rate immediately, vs waiting out a better deal. That is something you could likely find an economic equilibrium for, but it would rely on some hefty assumptions on what a new proposal could look like if the players hold out longer.

 

 

I slightly disagree. Variance is a large factor in the decision, and the whole thing needs to first be mapped by a utility function.

 

In other words, if I'm player A who makes 800K a year and we've missed half the season (ie, I lost 400K), I don't want to bet my mast 400K on a 50% chance of making some more money down the line vs making no money this season. Because I have a family to support, bills to pay, a mortgage on a house that is probably too expensive, etc.

 

Obviously, for Ovechkin and Crosby and such, it's probably easier to risk $x now for a y% at earning $z later, but for many players, the risk of going broke this hand is too high.

 

(I guess the argument isn't really about past loses, per say, but at being a point where money remaining becomes more necessary to earn).

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Hey, I cant find the word lockout?!?!?!

 

 

Dear __________,

 

On behalf of the Toronto Maple Leaf Hockey Club, we sincerely appreciate your patience as the National Hockey League (NHL) and National Hockey Leagues Players' Association (NHLPA) negotiate a new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

On Wednesday, The National Hockey League announced the cancellation of the 2012 preseason schedule through Sept. 30. The cancellation of the schedule was necessary because of the absence of a Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NHL Players' Association and the NHL. The NHL remains committed to negotiating 24/7 to reach an agreement that is fair to both sides -- one that provides for a full season of games for our fans.

 

While the Maple Leafs efforts in creating a world-class experience for our fans are on hold, our commitment to our community remains as strong as ever. The Maple Leafs organization will continue our charitable outreach efforts and community initiatives as the NHL and NHLPA work through the process of securing a new collective agreement.

 

As a valued fan and member of Leafs Nation, your loyalty and support is very important to our organization. Your passion for the game is what motivates us. Thank you again for your understanding. We greatly appreciate your support. In the meantime, we will keep you informed and provide information as it becomes available.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Tom Anselmi

President and C.O.O.

Maple Leaf Sports + Entertainment

[Dubey 1,035]

Yeah Bettman is an annoying little bastard, but there's a reason he's been there for 20 years. He does what the owners want, plus he makes a pretty good scapegoat since he is so damn unlikeable. He's not really the one pulling the strings though.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

My friends version of the letter I received, that was shown above.....

 

 

Dear ______,

 

On behalf of a few filthy ****in' rich bastards, we sincerely appreciate and eagerly anticipate your historical stupidity as the National Hockey League (NHL) and National Hockey Leagues Players' Association (NHLPA) negotiate a new Collective Bargaining Agreement. While MLSE is a partner with the NHL, it would be unfair to characterize our relationship with the league in any context which promotes, enhances or encourages the development of hockey. As a loyal fan who relishes being bent over by us and thrusted with the force of a dozen wild, coked out donkeys, we believe in maintaining that honest relationship.

,

On Wednesday, The National Hockey League announced the cancellation of the 2012 preseason schedule through Sept. 30. The cancellation of the schedule was necessary because Gary Bettman, like us, has a bottom line to attend to which has nothing to do with you other than the fact that if you stopped attending games and buying merchandise made for pennies by sweatshop workers in ass smelling alleys of Shanghai, we would cease being stinky filthy rich--and just be filthy rich.

 

The media is falsely reporting that the NHL remains committed to negotiating 24/7 to reach an agreement that is fair to both sides -- one that provides for a full season of games for our fans.

While we would like nothing better than ice shitty product and sell 12 dollar beers as soon as possible, it is physically impossible to negotiate 24/7, as that implies no time for sleep, eating, shitting, bathing and planning further ass penetration of you, the willing fan. I am sure many of you have heard of 50 Shades of Grey. Well, we are Grey! But, more philosophically, we know that you will crawl back to the game like dysfunctional lemmings with vision defects. So, any negotiating the media is reporting that is earnest and diligent is entirely false.

 

While the Maple Leafs efforts in creating a promised world-class experience with hilarious and shocking third-world reality for our fans are on hold, our commitment to our community remains as ostensibly strong as ever. The Maple Leafs organization will continue our money as the NHL and NHLPA work through the process of securing a new collective agreement.

 

As a valued fan and member of Leafs Nation(believe you me, we think it sounds stupid, riddled with whacky Kool-Aid hyperbole), your ****ed up loyalty and support is very important to our organization. Your passion for the game is what allows us to snort coke out of the ass of 1000 dollar hookers in Monaco.

 

Thank you again for your money. We greatly appreciate your money. In the meantime, we will keep you informed and provide any information to you after we get back from France.

 

Sincerely,

President and C.O.O.

Maple Leaf Sports + Entertainment

[serge 904]

After over 30 years of watching the Leafs, this was the year that I officially(well sort of) became a season ticket holder.

 

I have 20 games this year as a part of a partnership. Now this happens.

 

Its sad yes.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

After over 30 years of watching the Leafs, this was the year that I officially(well sort of) became a season ticket holder.

 

I have 20 games this year as a part of a partnership. Now this happens.

 

Its sad yes.

 

wow, thats a brutal bit of luck.

I guess bright side is you can now go to 20games a year, so congrats on that, Im sure your pumped about it.

[serge 904]

wow, thats a brutal bit of luck.

I guess bright side is you can now go to 20games a year, so congrats on that, Im sure your pumped about it.

 

Ya its kind of cool..Part of the package was one exhibition game which would of been later this week I believe.

 

We were supposed to have a snake draft with the other partners already..Which has been pushed back

[InternetExplorer 2,609]

wonder what season tickets would even go for. like, if they are on ebay, what's it worth?

 

maybe the franchise wouldn't allow that?

[Fenxis 99]

I have 20 games this year as a part of a partnership. Now this happens.

 

Holy crap.. you serge'd the entire NHL!

[FCP Bob 1,312]

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/devils_right_wing_krys_barch_posts_feelings_about_nhl_owners_lockout_on_twitter/

 

Saturday, September 29, 2012

Devils right wing Krys Barch posts feelings about NHL owners’ lockout on Twitter

 

Devils right wing Krys Barch took to Twitter tonight to express his feelings about the NHL owners’ lockout. I have pieced together the 32-year-old enforcer’s numerous Tweets and the full text is below. I edited in a couple of missing words and letters, but otherwise the words are all Barch’s.

“I sit here from Grand Bend, Ontario putting a pen to my heart and writing on paper what bleeds out. My name is Krys Barch. I have played….

.... approx 5 1/2 years in the NHL and have worked for every second of it. I Haven’t been a 1st round pick, bonus baby….....

.... or a son of a hall of famer. I have made it through sweating, bleeding, cut Achilles, broken hands, concussions….

.... broken orbital bones, 8 teeth knocked out, etc, etc, etc. I sit in front of a fire, 8 OV deep and starting a bottle of Porte…

.... that will assist in the translations of my emotions to words! No different than a truck driver, farmer or line worker….

... I have a shot and a beer. Not to deal with the days ahead but to ease the nerves from what my body has endured the days before….

“I sit here with both my boys sleeping and my wife due with our 3rd. My thoughts racing on what I can conquer tomorrow to get our family….

.... ahead. Some times wondering if I should have existed when a word and a gun solidified and solved all problems. I feel the Wild West….

.... would (be) more simplified than the world we live in now when an employer who makes billions of dollars and a league with record revenues….

... can tell me that I can’t do the things that my heart tells my me to do! All what my heart tells me to do far surpasses what my ....

.... body has endured. As I write this I dive deeper and deeper into my bottle of Porte giving wider views to the depths of my heart….

.... As my pen warms from the fire, Neil Young and a fall Canadian night, I wonder how this work stoppage effects the owners?

“I wonder if the owners of Boston, New York, Washington, etc, etc, have endured any of the injuries that I or any other player in the ....

.... NHL have endured. Still they probably sit their smoking the same brand of cigar, sipping the same cognac, and going on vacation ....

.... To one of five houses they own…. While we sit here knowing they want to take 20% of our paychecks. One half to 3/4 of my peers

.... Will have to work for the next 50 years of their lives. Congratulations to the lucky select few that I have played with who have made….

... Salaries that they can choose to do whatever they want when they are done. But I have played (with) most who do not!

“If the NHL wants to teams in the south or struggling markets than the players along with the financially well to do teams need to start….

.... Working together. Or they need to start to move teams to the North where they will make money. The system allows the owners to….

.... continually take money from the players contract after contract where eventually over 40 some years the owners will have 80%....

.... Of revenue. The only way to stop the work stoppages long into the future is fix the root cause of the problems. The lockout….

.. Is a procedure to take from the players to pay for the NHL mistakes. Let’s not allow the NHL to make any more mistakes….

... Let the league and the players come together to fix the mistakes that have been made and make sure none are made in the future….

..... Let’s get a deal where the owners, players, and fans benefit from. We’re we can be sitting around in beautiful Canadian fall’s…...

.... around a fire playing and watching the game we love. Here’s to the truth and our next conversation. As always speaking from my….

.... Heart! Goodnight! Like me or hate me I speak what comes from my heart!”

***

Note: The Devils have never publicly said they have a policy against their players posting on Twitter, but, though some players have accounts, they do not usually post on them and some other players who did previously post on Twitter after first joining the Devils eventually deleted their accounts.

Barch’s account – he posts under @krysbarch – preceded him signing a two-year, $1.5 million contract with the Devils as an unrestricted free agent on July 5 and he has yet to play a game or practice with the team. Regardless, with an owners’ lockout under way, the Devils don’t really have say at the moment in whether he posts on Twitter or not. No communication between team officials and players is permitted during the lockout.

[serge 904]

Does anyone else think there is ANY chance we get a season?

 

They met for 3 days straight and they DID NOT discuss any of the core economic issues that is causing the lockout. They discussed small issues like drug testing, health issues etc..Issues that dont really matter and can be ironed out after the main problem is solved.

 

What sense do these people make??

 

Lets say a player came into the league pre 2004 and still playing in the league. Lets use Rick Nash as an example.

 

This is Nash's 10th year in the NHL. If there is no season he will be losing 20% of his career because of Labour dispute..Sure he is playing in Switzerland but I doubt he is making $7 million a year there.

 

Just imagine the average worker working from age 25-65....Its the equivalent of him losing 8 years of income earning ability.

 

Most of the owners are big corporations or billionaires..They can wait this out for 2 years if need be..They dont have as much to lose as the players IMO.

 

Again not sure of the KHL salaries etc, but most players arent making the big bucks over there.