lederer's take on heads up w/ daniel:

[IntheGreenMist 0]

Sitting with Howard on FTP in play money this morning. I took the chance to ask him a few t hings about Daniel and his challenge. Please dont flame for my opinion, just thought some might be interested. JoeMartini (Observer): just curious on your perspective about who has the edge in the big heads up matches between daniel and barry greenstein, i have a feeling daniel could be in for a rough stretch?Dealer: Hand #120268152poppatim (Observer): how well does it tye the stories togetherBAFA4LIFE (Observer): daniel is the manHoward Lederer: agreed joe--------------------------------------------------------JoeMartini (Observer): okay one last question, about Danny N's heads up challenges...any intentions on taking him up on it? Or is there no +EV there?BAFA4LIFE (Observer): you look like billy bong thornton in slingbladeDealer: Smileycaylor has 15 seconds left to actHoward Lederer: I think I have large positive EV in a few games, but I am not playing any cash game poker these daysHoward Lederer: too busy

[iveyfan30 0]

Sitting with Howard on FTP in play money this morning. I took the chance to ask him a few t hings about Daniel and his challenge. Please dont flame for my opinion, just thought some might be interested. JoeMartini (Observer): just curious on your perspective about who has the edge in the big heads up matches between daniel and barry greenstein, i have a feeling daniel could be in for a rough stretch?Dealer: Hand #120268152poppatim (Observer): how well does it tye the stories togetherBAFA4LIFE (Observer): daniel is the manHoward Lederer: agreed joe--------------------------------------------------------JoeMartini (Observer): okay one last question, about Danny N's heads up challenges...any intentions on taking him up on it? Or is there no +EV there?BAFA4LIFE (Observer): you look like billy bong thornton in slingbladeDealer: Smileycaylor has 15 seconds left to actHoward Lederer: I think I have large positive EV in a few games, but I am not playing any cash game poker these daysHoward Lederer: too busy

too busy= dont want the publicity of losing heads up to dn.....

[ArseneLupin3 0]

too busy= dont want the publicity of losing heads up to dn.....

Oh grow up.-adam

[JaysonWeber 0]

too busy= dont want the publicity of losing heads up to dn.....

Oh grow up.-adam

What game do you think Lederer would be a favorite against DN in? The closest would be Limit HE, In which I'd still give the edge to DN, slightly, if not 50-50.

[IntheGreenMist 0]

I also asked Howard what he thinks his strongest game was, and he said limit hold 'em as well.

[iveyfan30 0]

too busy= dont want the publicity of losing heads up to dn.....

Oh grow up.-adam

grow up?? lol... sorry my opinion doesnt match yours ...i just feel that lederer couldnt handle dn heads up, or rather lederer wouldnt like the publicity of getting beat by dn...if you dont like my opinion , dont read my post...but dont say grow up like your opinion is more valid than mine...i see you tend to like threads that are negative dn , im not a blind dn fanboy, i tell it like it is...edit....limit holdem would be howards best bet, but i would still give the edge to dn like 60/40....

[Sushiman 0]

Most definitely limit. The guy went from playing 1/2 at his chess club in NYC to the 300/600 in Las Vegas from honing his limit skills. It's the game that earned him a living after his sportsbetting operation went bust.

[koolromeo 0]

howard would be a favorite against almost anyone in limit holdem, dn included.

[JaysonWeber 0]

howard would be a favorite against almost anyone in limit holdem, dn included.

You so sure about that?

[lrlslo 0]

I love these PRO poker players who are saying they are to busy to play heads up. Ok Howard, you have time to play for play money on FTP but not 5 hours to make 500k, good excuse. Honestly, if anyone thought they were a favorite they could squeeze in a couple hours. Shit the fu.cking president plays like 36 holes of golf a day and Howard Lederer can't play a heads up match. Bullshit.

[iveyfan30 0]

I love these PRO poker players who are saying they are to busy to play heads up. Ok Howard, you have time to play for play money on FTP but not 5 hours to make 500k, good excuse. Honestly, if anyone thought they were a favorite they could squeeze in a couple hours. censored the fu.cking president plays like 36 holes of golf a day and Howard Lederer can't play a heads up match. censored.

a poker player thats too busy to play poker?....thats like derek jeter saying he's too busy to play against the red sox...if he really felt he could win, he would play......plus , like i mentioned before, if he lost this match it would hurt because of all the bad blood thats been there..

[Absolute 0]

i just hope this doesnt turn in to a discussion about his history with that family.its pretty obvious howard isnt going to have encouraging things to say about Daniel. its not headline news.next...

[IntheGreenMist 0]

i just hope this doesnt turn in to a discussion about his history with that family.its pretty obvious howard isnt going to have encouraging things to say about Daniel. its not headline news.next...

Then why did you read the post?

[brian67 0]

You guys are missing major points here. Pros playing other pros heads up is stupid. They only get 1-1 on their buy in and in most scenarios the game should still be pretty close to 50-50%. Good tournement players make money by getting all the dead money from amateurs. Howard doesn't have to say it, but why should he risk 500k to win 500k in a match that is basically a coin flip?Players have to get away from their egos. If both players play in mtt's with that 500k they are more likely than not going to walk away with much more than a 1-1 on their money. Howard and Daniel playing heads up is foolish for both of them.

[iveyfan30 0]

You guys are missing major points here. Pros playing other pros heads up is stupid. They only get 1-1 on their buy in and in most scenarios the game should still be pretty close to 50-50%. Good tournement players make money by getting all the dead money from amateurs. Howard doesn't have to say it, but why should he risk 500k to win 500k in a match that is basically a coin flip. Players have to get away from their egos. If both players play in mtt's with that 500k they are more likely than not going to walk away with much more than a 1-1 on their money. Howard and Daniel playing heads up is foolish for both of them.

do you really think howard wouldnt love to beat dn heads up? the publicity makes it +ev...i agree, i would rather play against fish all day than dn or lederer, but these guys do have an ego and the skill to back it up..i agree with absolute to a point, but the bad blood has to play a small factor on if the match is played or not..like if dn wins , dont tell me it wont be a little bit sweeter for him and vice versa for howard...but i agree ,i didnt make this post to rehash that whole thing..

[JaysonWeber 0]

Most definitely limit. The guy went from playing 1/2 at his chess club in NYC to the 300/600 in Las Vegas from honing his limit skills. It's the game that earned him a living after his sportsbetting operation went bust.

There is also a reason he doesn't play higher than that. He can't beat the other pro's even at his own game, much less any other game spread at that limit. You don't think he's tried to play in larger games? He's never made it higher than the limits he plays now and walked about with a profit longterm. That is why I think DN has an edge over him, Daniel's proved he can beat other pro's at a higher level than Lederer.

[IntheGreenMist 0]

Actually I am pretty sure he plays 1000/2000 and up

[JaysonWeber 0]

Actually I am pretty sure he plays 1000/2000 and up

really? I'm not... If you can find anywhere that says he does I'd take a Look. I know for a fact that the "and up" part is wrong he doesn't play in the big game and I've never heard of him playing the 2k/4k game either.

[pokerloser 0]

You all all know where I stand, I just need one more! I don't care who it is or what game it is! :shock:

[joshrogo 0]

Except for the fact, that you are very sycophantic .. i cannot see how you can think/say with any certainty, that DN is a 60/40 favorite over howard at limit he ..howard is a great limit player and dn seems to struggle against top notch pros at it .. since, we know now, that match will not occur .. people here should not deem to trash HL for the fact that he chooses not to play.

[IntheGreenMist 0]

He did say "I usually play $1000/2000 and higher" I guess its comes to taking his word, which i dont know why he would say something to play money players haha. He did play the texas banker and take 9 million from him in one game. I think youre letting your blind love for DN and the problems the two of them have had in the past get in the way of your rational thinking. Howard is a great player, why all the hate?

[Frank Guest 0]

Howard is a proven high-limit cash game player. Proof: Ask him or any other 4k/8k and up player, or read the new book coming out about the Big Game. The Professor, The Banker, and The Suicide King. The first 28 pages are free to read on Amazon, and personally it seems like a very interesting read. "The Professor" is obvi Howard himself.Why doesn't Howard play the high limit side games anymore?I'm sure their could be multiple reasons, but the most likely one is that he does not want to play with backers anymore. It is my opinion/understanding that when he did play 2k/4k, 4k/8k, and up, he played with a backer. Mind you, he still consistently beat the game and has the abilities to beat the highest limit poker out there today - but does not have the personal financial security to do so. He's a great player. My own suggestion is that with no backers, he can comfortably play at a lower limit (if he chooses), on his own money, make the same amount of actual money/hour at a lower limit without having to pay his backers their percentage - and be able to play against softer competition with a smaller variance - surely +EV.The sufficient bankroll needed to play 4k/8k and up on a normal basis is astronomical - am I correct in saying Daniel is even quoted saying he doesn't have the necessary BR to play 4k/8k??? By the way, I think Howard be 55/45 favorite of Daniel in heads-up limit hold'em anyway - but is that a sufficient edge to put up half a mill???

[JaysonWeber 0]

He did say "I usually play $1000/2000 and higher" I guess its comes to taking his word, which i dont know why he would say something to play money players haha. He did play the texas banker and take 9 million from him in one game. I think youre letting your blind love for DN and the problems the two of them have had in the past get in the way of your rational thinking. Howard is a great player, why all the hate?

First of all, I said I might be wrong, I know for a fact that he used to have a banker and doesn't play the 4k/8k game because he lost there. If he had beaten the game, don't you think he's still be there? He'd certainly have enough money to continue playing in it if he won there.I'm not being biased towards Daniel at all here, I could name 2-3 players in every game that I think are favorites to Daniel BUT I don't think that Howard is one of them.Howard is a very strong player, absolutely. There is no Denying that. He did play in the Corporation and that says a lot, infact he crushed Beal. He seemed to have a tremendous read on Beal to the point that Beal won't play him anymore :lol:No there are plenty of players who can beat Daniel over the long-run in Limit Hold'em right now, David and Joe have already played him and I figure both of them to beat him long-term by a slight edge.Farha would probobly beat him in Any form of Omaha because he's better. But Daniel a dog to Howard 45-55 in Limit Hold'em? I can't see that at all. I gave it a coinflip for there game I am not saying Daniel is 10x better than Howard in this case. I will say, that Farha would have a slighter edge in Omaha over Omaha 8/b and he would probobly pick that game. A better poker player in general? Yes I would give that To Daniel no question because he has Proved himself and he doesn't need Backers to play in the Big Game. Don't think I'm a Daniel Fanboy just because I'm his Moderator here man, I will admit when Daniel's a dog, there's reasons he wont come to my Crazy 8's game on Fridays anymore... He knows when he's beat at a game

[Smiff85 0]

I'm pretty sure he's played 1500/3000 i read in some article howard lederer wrote about it was a 7 stud hand cant remeber the site. But i'm pretty sure he's played very high. Personally i think it would be close to even money between him and dn in limit holdem but thats only cos ive seen them both do well in a limit holdem(party poker million) tournaments. But really i don't think any of us have enough evidence of cash game results and other stuff to form an accurate prediction to who would win in that match up. Dissapointed to hear that hes not gonna play dn tho, 2 of my favourite players heads up would of been cool. Also with the structures of the heads up matches so far (50-60 BB each) i dont think the result would prove much.

[T_Mac 0]

"The Professor, The Banker, and The Suicide King. The first 28 pages are free to read on Amazon"I can't seem to find these free pages...where are they?