Bizzarre Prayer Rituals Of Muslims Must Be Accomodated

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Try leading with your knuckles instead of the heal of your hand.

Yeah, like I've ever actually punched anything...

[Balloon guy 158]

Yeah, like I've ever actually punched anything...

We're waiting for you to punch a clock so we can invite you into the republican camp.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

We're waiting for you to punch a clock so we can invite you into the republican camp.

He shoots he scores

[Balloon guy 158]

He shoots he scores

But the victory is hollow because he can't call anyone to share it with because some homeless guy in NYC had to upgrade to a 4G platform

[Dread Aidan 8]

I'm not sure which part you're disagreeing with, if you are at all.I think the school has the right to decorate their rooms however they want. I don't think this extends to, say, a dorm room because that's a residence, and I don't think rentors should be allowed to force their tenants to decorate a room with religious objects.Having said that, there are many good schools that are religious, and one may go for the education, not the religion. But, that's a choice, and one should understand the consequences of such a choice. They should be allowed to form a "muslim group", whatever that means, but the school doesn't have to provide them with rooms or food or whatever in accordance with that group's wishes. (On the other hand, they can't deny them things that other groups are allowed).I think that summarizes my position.

I'm disagreeing with the stuff you said.Maybe the Catholic school wants crosses in the dorm rooms to remind the students to avoid any funny business. Catholics are notoriously prude, don't you know?I am assuming a Muslim group would have something to do with Islam. Isn't Islam in contradiction with Catholicism? I am also assuming that a Catholic school is trying to teach Catholicism. They need to allow a group that would try to hinder their mission?

[Roll the Bones 74]

I did, and I did so even though the original poster gave absolutely no summary of the link or indication of its contents.In terms of the link: I think the school has the right to have crosses in whatever rooms it wants, except for a dorm room.I'm not sure what the link means when it says they weren't allowed to form a Muslim student group. I don't think a school can discriminate against what groups are formed at that school based on religion.

Okay, I'll try to help clarify this discussion. I know that is odd in and of itself.Many people of all kinds of faith and non-faith go to a certain college for reasons other than that faith, be it location, curriculum, sports team, prestige, etc. Unless it's a real backward evangelical or Mormon college, etc. It's not like you have to take Catholic classes at these colleges. A private college, in fact most private colleges allow all sorts of groups obviously. Having a group, especially one that is linked to a national affiliate can help them gain grant money for speakers, and other advantages. A private college can and in fact does have the right to not allow any groups that they deem innapropriate or against their stated goals, but for the most part they don't. They allow LGBT or Peta or even the Babtists to have groups. Many religious schools, if not most allow for these groups with no problem as long as they pass the required guidlines the colleges have in place. It gives students a chance to meet and socialize with other like minded students and often provide a real and positive influence. (I am sure it helps with their quest for enrollment as well). And the different groups can meet, debate and foster a air of understanding amongst each other--which is a good thing as well. Colleges are a place that tend to embrace diversity.I am kind of familiar with this because a local Catholic College, University of Dayton has a Muslim Group. UD's slogan is,

The University of Dayton is not a place where learning ends at the door to the classroom. Our courses spark curiosity — provide foundations — sharpen intellects — and inspire our faculty and students to dare to be exceptional.

Bu the odd thing is, they turned down SOFT, a local chapter from the Secular Student Alliance from forming a group because,

“I don’t know, as a religious, Catholic university, how we can promote this,” Lopez-Matthews said. “It’s in direct contrast to what we believe.”

But apparently being Muslim isn't? haha, explain that logic?The SOFT group's stated goals (in their application and charter) were,

SSA’s mission is “to organize, unite, educate, and serve students and student communities that promote the ideals of scientific and critical inquiry, democracy, secularism, and human-based ethics”…

Apparently democracy and ethics are far out ideas to them? UD obvious point in denying them was,

How can an institution that’s founded on faith OK an organization that says faith doesn’t exist?”

But the SSA has groups in a lot of religous schools, California Lutheran University, Elmhurst College in Illinois, Lutheran College in Iowa, Southern Methodist University in Texas, etc..Colleges “founded on faith” ought to be comfortable with students who are questioning it and who want to explore another side of it. If there’s one place that shouldn’t demand that you agree with their beliefs without inquiry, it ought to be an institution of higher learning.So, my opinion is that if you are going to allow them as students (muslims), you should attempt to accomodate them and not indoctrinate them. Is it too much to ask for a room at huge University like Catholic U where they can pray? I am also amazed that they don't have a student muslim group already or that it would be denied. Catholic University is a huge college and known to have one of the best Law Programs in the country. It's located in Washington DC, an obviously very diverse area. My brother actually went to law school there way back when and I have toured the school, etc. so I am a little familiar with it.

[vbnautilus 48]

I'm disagreeing with the stuff you said.Maybe the Catholic school wants crosses in the dorm rooms to remind the students to avoid any funny business. Catholics are notoriously prude, don't you know?I am assuming a Muslim group would have something to do with Islam. Isn't Islam in contradiction with Catholicism? I am also assuming that a Catholic school is trying to teach Catholicism. They need to allow a group that would try to hinder their mission?

They don't have to support or sponsor that group in any way but I don't see how they can stop people from forming a group for whatever purpose they want to. The fact that students enroll in my school does not give me control over their right to congregate in a public place and discuss whatever they want to, right?

[mrdannyg 274]

freest country in the history of the world.

You are the cause of white guilt.

[Balloon guy 158]

Okay, I'll try to help clarify this discussion. I know that is odd in and of itself.Many people of all kinds of faith and non-faith go to a certain college for reasons other than that faith, be it location, curriculum, sports team, prestige, etc. Unless it's a real backward evangelical or Mormon college, etc. It's not like you have to take Catholic classes at these colleges. A private college, in fact most private colleges allow all sorts of groups obviously. Having a group, especially one that is linked to a national affiliate can help them gain grant money for speakers, and other advantages. A private college can and in fact does have the right to not allow any groups that they deem innapropriate or against their stated goals, but for the most part they don't. They allow LGBT or Peta or even the Babtists to have groups. Many religious schools, if not most allow for these groups with no problem as long as they pass the required guidlines the colleges have in place. It gives students a chance to meet and socialize with other like minded students and often provide a real and positive influence. (I am sure it helps with their quest for enrollment as well). And the different groups can meet, debate and foster a air of understanding amongst each other--which is a good thing as well. Colleges are a place that tend to embrace diversity.I am kind of familiar with this because a local Catholic College, University of Dayton has a Muslim Group. UD's slogan is,Bu the odd thing is, they turned down SOFT, a local chapter from the Secular Student Alliance from forming a group because, But apparently being Muslim isn't? haha, explain that logic?The SOFT group's stated goals (in their application and charter) were, Apparently democracy and ethics are far out ideas to them? UD obvious point in denying them was, But the SSA has groups in a lot of religous schools, California Lutheran University, Elmhurst College in Illinois, Lutheran College in Iowa, Southern Methodist University in Texas, etc..Colleges “founded on faith” ought to be comfortable with students who are questioning it and who want to explore another side of it. If there’s one place that shouldn’t demand that you agree with their beliefs without inquiry, it ought to be an institution of higher learning.So, my opinion is that if you are going to allow them as students (muslims), you should attempt to accomodate them and not indoctrinate them. Is it too much to ask for a room at huge University like Catholic U where they can pray? I am also amazed that they don't have a student muslim group already or that it would be denied. Catholic University is a huge college and known to have one of the best Law Programs in the country. It's located in Washington DC, an obviously very diverse area. My brother actually went to law school there way back when and I have toured the school, etc. so I am a little familiar with it.

I'm sure when the atheist turn down Christians groups at their colleges.....oh wait.

[brvheart 1,752]

Bu the odd thing is, they turned down SOFT, a local chapter from the Secular Student Alliance from forming a group

Oh my goodness.

[phlegm 6]

Yes, catholics do indeed have bizarre prayer rituals, as do most religions. The point was, one strange ritual doesnt gaurantee the right to another, in a totalyy private setting.Sinse muslim prayer requires one to bow to Mecca, the Saudi reference was appropriate.I cannot believe there isnt a single place devoid of catholic paraphenelia in that entire institutionAs a devotee to the slippery slope argument, I dismiss the idea that a single room devoid of sacred christian images would satisfy them. Im sure they wont stop until a muslim studies degree, led by a group of Imams, under a spiraling mineret, is offered.

[mrdannyg 274]

I'm sure when the atheist turn down Christians groups at their colleges.....oh wait.

Love to see you and Brv use this argument. Amazingly, people who are not hardcore Christians do good things, like act charitably, found universities, etc. They just don't feel the need to brand it with their belief system and require others to accept their belief system to gain from it.

Sinse muslim prayer requires one to bow to Mecca, the Saudi reference was appropriate.

Nope. I'd tell you that was a nice try, if it was.

[Dread Aidan 8]

The fact that students enroll in my school does not give me control over their right to congregate in a public place and discuss whatever they want to, right?

Right. Were they congregating at a public place or at a private school?If the group asks the school to reserve them a classroom so they can meet and discuss the ways in which their religion is better than the school's, I feel like the school has the right to say no.

[Balloon guy 158]

Right. Were they congregating at a public place or at a private school?If the group asks the school to reserve them a classroom so they can meet and discuss the ways in which their religion is better than the school's, I feel like the school has the right to say no.

Remember when a few years back NAMBLA had a lawyer force the library to allow them to meet there since they were just a group of people who wanted to meet?

[Mercury69 3]

I think people should keep their religious beliefs and practices to themselves and behind closed doors of their respective holy structures. If others want to join in and participate (ie: attending a Seder or Ramadan dinner; converting), then that's fine and is up to the hosts and the person who wants to participate. I am sick of religious zealots yammering about how the Jews should be destroyed, how Muslims are all terrorists and how Christians are a bunch of hypocrites who will burn in Hell.The problem isn't whether or not something should be allowed or not. The problem is how people express their religious views. Some do it by praying; others do it by exploding things or bulldozing settlements or withdrawing funding to various institutions.The news is that if there is a God, there is just one God for all religions (OK, for some there are more incarnations). And that God doesn't mind if you believe in Him or not, just like I don't care if you agree with my rant or not. (If) God exists, He doesn't give a shit if you live or die. You are a microsecond of a fleeting thought to this being, assuming He exists.Get a life, zealots.

[Dread Aidan 8]

The news is that if there is a God, there is just one God for all religions (OK, for some there are more incarnations). And that God doesn't mind if you believe in Him or not, just like I don't care if you agree with my rant or not. (If) God exists, He doesn't give a shit if you live or die. You are a microsecond of a fleeting thought to this being, assuming He exists.

I think the real news here is that you so assuredly know the mind of an omnipotent, omniscient being.

[phlegm 6]

Love to see you and Brv use this argument. Amazingly, people who are not hardcore Christians do good things, like act charitably, found universities, etc. They just don't feel the need to brand it with their belief system and require others to accept their belief system to gain from it.Nope. I'd tell you that was a nice try, if it was.

Do I at least get an A for effort?

[mrdannyg 274]

Do I at least get an A for effort?

Sure, good affort.

[brvheart 1,752]

Love to see you and Brv use this argument.

What?

[Roll the Bones 74]

I'm sure when the atheist turn down Christians groups at their colleges.....oh wait.

What are you talking about, all public colleges are secular and we let you have groups despite our better sense.

Right. Were they congregating at a public place or at a private school?If the group asks the school to reserve them a classroom so they can meet and discuss the ways in which their religion is better than the school's, I feel like the school has the right to say no.

They do have a right to not give them the time of day. The point I was making is that most institutions of learning are about, well, "learning" and unless you are afraid they will convince everyone in the college to change from Catholicism or have some harmful or disruptive effect, (i.e. Nazi group or hate group) it's pretty stupid not to encourage dialogue between cultures.

[brvheart 1,752]

What are you talking about, all public colleges are secular and we let you have groups despite our better sense.

Well... either that, or the constitution. One or the other.

[Mercury69 3]

I think the real news here is that you so assuredly know the mind of an omnipotent, omniscient being.

I think I have as much right to say what my God thinks as much as anyone else does. No? And if I espouse the merits of a peaceful, benign and forgiving God, rather than a vengeful, self-righteous, strike you fucking dead kind of God, well, doesn't that simply mean that you have the right to say what you said about my post?You seem reasonably intelligent (if a little insouciant), judging from your posts, so wouldn't you say it's reasonable for me to use transference as a method to illustrate how I would like my/our God to be? I'm certainly not going to sit here and pretend to "know" these things, but I have high hopes that certain qualities exist in the "Greater Power" or whatever you might like to call it.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Well... either that, or the constitution. One or the other.

Well, yeah, that thing too.

[Dread Aidan 8]

They do have a right to not give them the time of day. The point I was making is that most institutions of learning are about, well, "learning" and unless you are afraid they will convince everyone in the college to change from Catholicism or have some harmful or disruptive effect, (i.e. Nazi group or hate group) it's pretty stupid not to encourage dialogue between cultures.

I agree that if you have "the truth" you shouldn't be afraid of debate. Theoretically. I'm not sure that it works that way in the real world though.

I'm certainly not going to sit here and pretend to "know" these things...

Because it kinda seemed like you were. Which was my only issue. You can make your God however you like.

[Mercury69 3]

Because it kinda seemed like you were. Which was my only issue. You can make your God however you like.

Yeah, that's what I heard you saying. I was simply saying I didn't like who some others were making their God. Strife and intolerance don't make sense in the long run.