El Guapo 8 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 So what existed before earth? Milky Way? Etc.Was it just God, or were the Angels around then too? Did they just reside in Heaven. What did they do? Where did they come from. How did God become God? Sorry if this is not the right thread, but SA's post made me think of these questions. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 where in the bible does it say that god exists outside of the universe?Reread my posts. Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I believe that a person who believes in the Bible could make a strong case that those texts support a God who lives 'outside' the universe.To be honest, I'm not even sure what we're discussing. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 So what existed before earth? Milky Way? Etc.Was it just God, or were the Angels around then too? Did they just reside in Heaven. What did they do? Where did they come from. How did God become God? Sorry if this is not the right thread, but SA's post made me think of these questions.Well, it's not like there are readily available answers to all of these, but we can gather what is in the Bible to come up with an idea.God is eternal. Isaiah says, "from everlasting to everlasting".God resides in Heaven.God created angels to serve him.His head angel Lucifer didn't like that and was kicked out.God always "was, and is, and is to come".ps. Mormons disagree with me. They believe that God was once a man who chose to quit sinning, so when he died he became our heavenly father, and if we also completely stop sinning, including thought sins like pride or anger, then we too can become heavenly fathers that will be worshiped. Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Always is what loses me in this. So was he once alone in Heaven, just chillin and said, Hey, I should create something to tell me I'm awesome, since I can pretty much do anything I want. BOOM, angels. Then after a few millenia, he got bored again and decided to make Earth and then got bored again and made people?What about the other planets? Did he make all those? If he did, how come only one (that we know of) has life?*I am honestly not trying to be a dick, i am actually very curious to what these answers are. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Always is what loses me in this. So was he once alone in Heaven, just chillin and said, Hey, I should create something to tell me I'm awesome, since I can pretty much do anything I want. BOOM, angels. Then after a few millenia, he got bored again and decided to make Earth and then got bored again and made people?What about the other planets? Did he make all those? If he did, how come only one (that we know of) has life?*I am honestly not trying to be a dick, i am actually very curious to what these answers are.Well, like I said, I don't know the answers, but the commonly held belief is that yes, he was alone and then created angels.Since time didn't exist, there was no passing of millenia, but then he decided to make the universe, including us.The other planets were part of the universe creation, and yes he made them. We have no idea if he made any other life, and it's not necessary to find out.I would think it would be kind-of fun to create life in lots of different places in the universe and see how long it would take for them to find each other, but that's neither here nor there. Most Christians believe that there is no other life in the universe, but the Bible doesn't address it. Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 So that is the odd thing to me. This sole entity was just *somewhere. That is the part for me that needs explanation. Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I would think it would be kind-of fun to create life in lots of different places in the universe and see how long it would take for them to find each other, but that's neither here nor there.But God would know how long it would take already. I mean, I can think of a lot of things that would be fun to do in creating a universe, but knowing exactly how everything would turn out would seem to take away some of the fun. Link to post Share on other sites
LimbaughGod 0 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 So that is the odd thing to me. This sole entity was just *somewhere. That is the part for me that needs explanation.the problem is you have a 'theistic personalist' conception of god. For a theistic personalist, god is like a person without limits. Edward Feser has put it this way:"The idea is to begin with what we know about human beings and then to abstract away first the body, then our temporal limitations, then our epistemological and volitional confinement to knowing about and having control over only a particular point of space and time, then our moral defects, and to keep going until we arrive at the notion of a being who has power, knowledge, and goodness like ours but to an unlimited degree."I agree with you: when a theistic personalist talks about god, I can't make much of what he's saying.Most theists in the Western philosophical tradition, however, have not been theistic personalists, but classical theists (e.g. Avicenna, Duns Scotus, Maimonides, Augustine, Aquinas, etc.). for a classical theist, god is not a 'supernatural mind,' but rather being itself. now I know, that may not at first seem like much of an improvement, but it is. I'll help you come to see why below.to understand just why it is, I'd recommend Feser's "The Last Superstition." his tone is acerbic, but there is simply no better introduction to classical theism out there. You may not be persuaded, but you'll certainly develop a much deeper understanding of what theistic philosophers of religion are talking about, and, more importantly, you'll understand *why* they've reached the conclusions they have. (I'm not implying that all philosophers of religion are classical theists, but as I said, the mainstream tradition in the West, from Plato on, is dominated by classical theism.) Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 But God would know how long it would take already. I mean, I can think of a lot of things that would be fun to do in creating a universe, but knowing exactly how everything would turn out would seem to take away some of the fun.Of course, you're correct. I was just thinking from my perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 But God would know how long it would take already. I mean, I can think of a lot of things that would be fun to do in creating a universe, but knowing exactly how everything would turn out would seem to take away some of the fun.Also, if you're omnipotent and you want fun, you just instantly create an infinite amount of fun itself. Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Reread my posts.all i see is you saying "a strong case" can be made for that viewpoint. which means to me it doesnt say that, you just want it too. hence the "tailoring."but i only went back a few posts, and i'm an idiot. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 The notion that we can fully understand God's nature, location or abilities is the flaw.He has given us an understanding tailored for our ability in the Bible.Moses once asked God to: "Show me your glory" in Exodus 3318 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” 19 And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” 21 Then the LORD said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”...Exodus 34:5 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the LORD.6 And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.” Link to post Share on other sites
LimbaughGod 0 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 God can't be accurately described in anthropomorphic terms at all. But anthropomorphising God is perfectly ok in general discussion or teaching because it's closer to the truth than not anthropomorphising Him. Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 The notion that we can fully understand God's nature, location or abilities is the flaw.He has given us an understanding tailored for our ability in the Bible.Moses once asked God to: "Show me your glory" in Exodus 3318 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” 19 And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” 21 Then the LORD said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”...Exodus 34:5 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the LORD.6 And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.”its so weird that you think that really happened. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 We have no idea if he made any other life, and it's not necessary to find out.I don't know, I feel like a lot of christianity is super conceited about being human, as if god greated everything just for us. The existence of other, possibly much more advanced, lifeforms would certainly debunk that feeling. I'm not saying you necessarily feel that way, just that it seems like a lot of christians do. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I don't know, I feel like a lot of christianity is super conceited about being human, as if god greated everything just for us. The existence of other, possibly much more advanced, lifeforms would certainly debunk that feeling. I'm not saying you necessarily feel that way, just that it seems like a lot of christians do.I don't disagree, pride is a major problem among humans. If we ran into alien life at some point, I don't think that would be a problem for the Bible at all, and it sure would be super awesome. (as long as they were friendly) Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 If there were alien life forms, would they have their own bible, or would they have ours? Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 He has given us an understanding tailored for our ability in the Bible.Doesn't think very much of us, does he. Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I do know this: if aliens show up while there are still multiple religions that have a decent amount of extremists within their ranks, it's going to be a fucking disaster. Although, to be fair, the same goes for the political landscape. Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I do know this: if aliens show up while there are still multiple religions that have a decent amount of extremists within their ranks, it's going to be a fucking disaster. Although, to be fair, the same goes for the political landscape.True, we don't want no politicians showin up! Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 If there were alien life forms, would they have their own bible, or would they have ours?What kind of question is this? Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 seems to me it's a question designed to make fun of how ridiculous a stance it is to say that alien life wouldnt invalidate the bible (further than it already is). Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 If there were alien life forms, would they have their own bible, or would they have ours?Reminds me of a skit I saw in church once.An alien ship lands and the aliens come out."We come in peace to share with you news of Jesus, the Son of God""Oh..yea, He was here.""What? Jesus came to this planet?""Yea, a couple thousand years ago.""Wow, how lucky you are, you must have had wonderful parades and parties to celebrate His arrival""No..actually we killed Him."God of the universe would encompass any other life forms He created. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 God of the universe would encompass any other life forms He created.Well, except for the ones that ruin his story like Australopithecus. Link to post Share on other sites
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