colonel Feathers 5 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 the roof is objectively in better condition today vs. jan 09. no one truly knows if the republican playbook would have been noticeably better, because making that judgment involves baking in an obscene number of assumptions and guesses. the stars aligned for him to inherit the very bottom of the dip in jobs and as a result he gets credit with stupid people for creating four million jobs or whatever the number is. the republicans are just gonna have to deal with that bit of bad luck. it's a stupid discussion. BASICALLY my point. he didnt inherit anything.He knew exactly wat the condition was in, and he applied for the job anyway.thinking his ways would fix things. Obviously he was wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Ron_Mexico 4,219 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 First of all, Obama did not inherit a bad situation. Suppose you hire a company to fix your roof. after thousands of dollars the roof is in worse condition. Are you ok with this cause they inherited a bad situiation or will you fire their ass and get someone who knows wat the hell he is doing? You'll at least admit that this is a horrible analogy, no? Link to post Share on other sites
InternetExplorer 2,609 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 BASICALLY my point. he didnt inherit anything.He knew exactly wat the condition was in, and he applied for the job anyway.thinking his ways would fix things. Obviously he was wrong. what if his ways kept things from being worse than they otherwise would have been? this is the problem with the topic: there is no actual science behind it. there is only guessing over how 300 million people might have reacted to a different management approach in washington/wall street. if I were romney, I would stay the f away from the argument. it takes a lot of time to explain why you think the other guy was wrong, and the instant response is the--factual--argument, "we added x million jobs under me, while we lost x million jobs under the republican administration." start blasting away on gay marriage or kenya or something, because the economy just isn't sucking enough. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 First of all, Obama did not inherit a bad situation. Suppose you hire a company to fix your roof. after thousands of dollars the roof is in worse condition. Are you ok with this cause they inherited a bad situiation or will you fire their ass and get someone who knows wat the hell he is doing? I was going to amend your analogy and talk about a roof that covers the entire United States and which has millions of holes and horrible structural problems which you can't even see or determine the origin of, but I realized that even that analogy is useless. Being President is nothing like fixing a roof, and running for President is nothing like trying to get a contract for a roofing job. I don't know if it's possible to debate with someone who says "Obama did not inherit a bad situation," and then, far from explaining how the economy wasn't "bad" when he took office, instead talks about roofs for 30 seconds and leaves it at that. Obama inherited a crumbling economy, not a leaky roof, and fixing an economy while simultaneously helping run the entire country is a bit more complex than patching a hole in a roof. I'm not saying he's done the best job ever, but it's more like he's a plumber and we hired him to fix the pipes in our basement cuz one is leaking and...just kidding, I'm not making a plumber analogy. Link to post Share on other sites
InternetExplorer 2,609 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 this debate is devoid of substance Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 this debate is devoid of substance I'm thinking of changing the channel. Literally nothing new. Link to post Share on other sites
InternetExplorer 2,609 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 OK, the five seconds comment kinda made my night. Link to post Share on other sites
JustDoIt 10 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm thinking of changing the channel. Literally nothing new. Here's what the left are saying! Live-Blogging The First Presidential Debate 2012 http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/10/live-blogging-the-first-presidential-debate-2012.html Chris Matthews Freaks Out At Obama After Debate: Romney Was "Winning" http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/03/chris_matthews_freaks_out_at_obama_after_debate_romney_was_winning.html Obama's Cutter takes swipe at Lehrer http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/10/obamas-cutter-takes-swipe-at-lehrer-137444.html Line of the Night.........."Trickle down Government"..........Gotta Love It! Link to post Share on other sites
JubilantLankyLad 1,957 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Devoid of substance, yes, but Romney did a far better job at presenting his polished turd. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Until Romney is willing say something specific, it's hollow victories that aren't going to be enough to overcome a monster deficit in the swing states. Line of the night was clearly "Obamacare is bipartisan, it was a Republican idea." Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think this summed up what I saw pretty well. Howard Stutz@howardstutz Romney looks too smug. Obama looks too flustered and Jim Leher is just plain awful Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Bottom Line: Obama had the kill shot in his sights last night. Not only did he fail to pull the trigger, it seems that he handed the gun to Romney. Link to post Share on other sites
JustDoIt 10 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Bottom Line: Obama had the kill shot in his sights last night. Not only did he fail to pull the trigger, it seems that he handed the gun to Romney. Totally Objective Analysis Link to post Share on other sites
JustDoIt 10 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Until Romney is willing say something specific, it's hollow victories that aren't going to be enough to overcome a monster deficit in the swing states. Line of the night was clearly "Obamacare is bipartisan, it was a Republican idea." Think you need to check debate transcript, Didn't Happen. Maybe you are wishing it happened. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Think you need to check debate transcript, Didn't Happen. Maybe you are wishing it happened. http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Multimedia/2012/October/denver-debate-obama-romney-health-care.aspx OBAMA: Gov. Romney said this has to be done on a bipartisan basis. This was a bipartisan idea. In fact, it was a Republican idea. And Gov. Romney at the beginning of this debate wrote and said what we did in Massachusetts could be a model for the nation. I'm wishing Obama had done a better job overall, but that was a great line. This is all academic though unless Obama flubs all three debates this badly AND Romney gets specific at some point. It's telling that you agree completely with the idea floated by LLY that Romney had to win big last night just to stay in the race. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Totally Objective Analysis (I honestly can't tell if this is sarcasm or not) Link to post Share on other sites
JustDoIt 10 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 http://www.kaiserhea...ealth-care.aspx OBAMA: Gov. Romney said this has to be done on a bipartisan basis. This was a bipartisan idea. In fact, it was a Republican idea. And Gov. Romney at the beginning of this debate wrote and said what we did in Massachusetts could be a model for the nation. I'm wishing Obama had done a better job overall, but that was a great line. This is all academic though unless Obama flubs all three debates this badly AND Romney gets specific at some point. It's telling that you agree completely with the idea floated by LLY that Romney had to win big last night just to stay in the race. I Stand Corrected. Even though Obama has not reached that magical 50% approval rating, he is still the incumbent and going into the debate had the advantage.....so yes I though LLY analysis was spot on. Link to post Share on other sites
JustDoIt 10 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Until Romney is willing say something specific, it's hollow victories that aren't going to be enough to overcome a monster deficit in the swing states. Line of the night was clearly "Obamacare is bipartisan, it was a Republican idea." Earlier this Summer we discussed Simpson-Bowles and I said he should have taken it to congress. Well it came up in the debate and in my opinion it was Obama's weakest point in the debate, his facial, body language and response was devastating for him. ROMNEY: Simpson-Bowles, the president should have grabbed that. LEHRER: No, I mean, do you support Simpson-Bowles? ROMNEY: I have my own plan. It's not the same as Simpson- Bowles. But in my view, the president should have grabbed it. If you wanted to make some adjustments to it, take it, go to Congress, fight for it. OBAMA: That's what we've done, made some adjustments to it, and we're putting it forward before Congress right now, a $4 trillion plan... ROMNEY: But you've been -- but you've been president four years... (CROSSTALK) ROMNEY: You've been president four years. You said you'd cut the deficit in half. It's now four years later. We still have trillion-dollar deficits. The CBO says we'll have a trillion-dollar deficit each of the next four years. If you're re-elected, we'll get to a trillion-dollar debt. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Meh. Until Mitt is willing to say what his actual views are, he won't make up the deficit he is facing. Zinging Obama isn't enough. 'I have my own plan'. Which is? Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Meh. Until Mitt is willing to say what his actual views are, he won't make up the deficit he is facing. Zinging Obama isn't enough. I don't think you are a fair measuring stick as to what Romney needs to do... Romney made many 'actual views' but you don't think those counted? Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I don't think you are a fair measuring stick as to what Romney needs to do... Romney made many 'actual views' but you don't think those counted? Well I was right in 2008, I was right in 2010 ($100 from BG), and I was right in that prediction thread you started. I've earned my smug satisfaction about predicting politics. And no, he didn't give actual views. He gave vague summaries. Obama stunk last night but its unlikely he will stink three times and let Romney off the hook. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Well I was right in 2008, I was right in 2010 ($100 from BG), and I was right in that prediction thread you started. I've earned my smug satisfaction about predicting politics. And no, he didn't give actual views. He gave vague summaries. Obama stunk last night but its unlikely he will stink three times and let Romney off the hook. ? 2008 wasn't hard to predict. A block of concrete would have beat McCain. 2010 had the largest losing record of one party in almost forever...big deal "Seeing that one". Again, a block of concrete saw that one coming. (And let's be fair, just because we have a block of concrete for vp, I am not saying that all blocks of concretes are stupid!) Obama's shiny veneer has been shown to be thin and plastic. Romney kicked his rear last night, in the debate that focuses on domestic issues ( Obama's supposedly best area of 'wins') The next one is foreign policies and Obama is going to get smashed. Then its a combo of both...what makes you think Obama will do better? The only way President Obama has a chance is to be allowed to have a teleprompter. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Obama constantly goes over time, demands '5 more seconds' then goes 30 seconds longer. This is who he is "I deserve more than others because I'm special" Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 ? 2008 wasn't hard to predict. A block of concrete would have beat McCain. 2010 had the largest losing record of one party in almost forever...big deal "Seeing that one". Again, a block of concrete saw that one coming. (And let's be fair, just because we have a block of concrete for vp, I am not saying that all blocks of concretes are stupid!) Obama's shiny veneer has been shown to be thin and plastic. Romney kicked his rear last night, in the debate that focuses on domestic issues ( Obama's supposedly best area of 'wins') The next one is foreign policies and Obama is going to get smashed. Then its a combo of both...what makes you think Obama will do better? The only way President Obama has a chance is to be allowed to have a teleprompter. I mean, you lost money to me on the 2010 election, so I guess you're dumber than a block of concrete. I'd go back and post everything you, Copernicus, 85suited and many others said in the run-up to McCain getting his head kicked in but the idea of embarrassing an old man gets less and less appealing as I become a more mature person. I think everyone agreed that the first debate would be the hardest for Obama to win, not the easiest. Obama has had a monster lead on Romney on national security issues all campaign. I think that watching you get your hopes up is almost worth Obama punting the first debate. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I mean, you lost money to me on the 2010 election, so I guess you're dumber than a block of concrete. I'd go back and post everything you, Copernicus, 85suited and many others said in the run-up to McCain getting his head kicked in but the idea of embarrassing an old man gets less and less appealing as I become a more mature person. That was 2008 when McCain lost. Link to post Share on other sites
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