2012 Elections

[mrdannyg 274]

i didn't miss it the stupid comment, i mentioned it once and let it go.i don't know where you got hate from, i gave credit to muslim as a religion the same being jewish or christain...the fact that muslims right now are some of the most violent people in the world has nothing do with hate - it is just a fact.honestly the only things i really hate are out of control spending, political correctness, people or groups or who are fiscally stupid, people that don't take responsibility and 3 putts...everyone hates 3 putts!!i don't care enough about any Muslim to hate them

How magnanimous of you to give credit to Muslim as being a religion. And doubly so that you are kind enough not to hate them by not caring about any of them. You obviously have a well-rounded and thoughtfully considered view of the world.Christians are the most violent group of people in the world. Not hate, just a fact. They just don't consider themselves to be because they assume their Christian morality to be general morality, whereas the world (including Muslims) acknowledge that the Muslim religion determines the ethical views of those who follow.

[akoff 0]

How magnanimous of you to give credit to Muslim as being a religion. And doubly so that you are kind enough not to hate them by not caring about any of them. You obviously have a well-rounded and thoughtfully considered view of the world.Christians are the most violent group of people in the world. Not hate, just a fact. They just don't consider themselves to be because they assume their Christian morality to be general morality, whereas the world (including Muslims) acknowledge that the Muslim religion determines the ethical views of those who follow.

Christian are the most violent group of poeple in the world...hmmm got it, pretty sure there is no point in continuing this conversation. i only have an hour left to work today, golf at 11 so i have to go.

[JustDoIt 10]

This reminded me of what we often see with racists talking about Muslims:http://www.huffingto..._n_1697793.htmlTo be honest, I have some problem with both. More so the Mormon situation, since Mormon's make a pledge, as adults, whereas Muslims more implicitly follow a book. People call themselves Christians without strictly following every word of the Bible, so can Mormons. I don't think it's equal to assume that an adult taking a pledge is equally meaningless. Still, I'm really only quibbling here, I see a lot of similarities in the situations.

In your link Wes Harris words could have been chosen better. It is obvious that he is totally pissed at John McCain and John Boehner who obviously did not read the letter Rep. Bachmann that caused this media driven BS. He also pissed because of John McCain’s previous statement to SPIEGEL ONLINE.John McCain on the Dangers of the Muslim Brotherhood “They Should Be Excluded from any Transition Government”http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/john-mccain-on-the-dangers-of-the-muslim-brotherhood-they-should-be-excluded-from-any-transition-government-a-743819.htmlAs far as the article you linked, when you check out the facts of the situation you will find that the article is nothing more than a hack job with ZERO sources for the following statements.“Conspiracy theories about Secretary of State Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin being linked to the Muslim Brotherhood ““Loosely sourced contention that Huma Abedin, the Muslim-American wife of former Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), had ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.”The letters written by Representative Bachmann definitely was not loosely sourced and contained not even a sliver of conspiracy theories. And Rep. Bachmann never said Huma Abedin had ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.And yes all of Representative Bachmann’s letters are available for reading.“Practicing Muslim and fellow Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) didn't take to kindly to Bachmann's insinuations, and sent her a letter asking her to provide him with "a full accounting of the sources you used to make the serious allegations against the individuals and organizations in your letters." He also warned her that there had better be "credible, substantial evidence" for her claims.”Yes, Rep. Ellison who started this brouhaha with his lies and misrepresentation demanded a letter, and he received a letter from Rep. Backmann.http://bachmann.house.gov/uploadedfiles/letter_to_rep._ellison.pdfRead the letter. I think you will agree that Rep. Ellison was exposed for who he is, A LIAR.Looking back in history we see that we have been having this conversation since the 1700’s. http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_urbanities-thomas_jefferson.htmlJefferson would perhaps have been just as eager to send a squadron to put down anyChristian piracy that was restraining commerce. But one cannot get around what Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripoli’s ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, America’s two foremost envoys were informed that “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.” (It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, or in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia.)

[mrdannyg 274]

In your link Wes Harris words could have been chosen better. It is obvious that he is totally pissed at John McCain and John Boehner who obviously did not read the letter Rep. Bachmann that caused this media driven BS. He also pissed because of John McCain’s previous statement to SPIEGEL ONLINE.John McCain on the Dangers of the Muslim Brotherhood “They Should Be Excluded from any Transition Government”http://www.spiegel.d...t-a-743819.htmlAs far as the article you linked, when you check out the facts of the situation you will find that the article is nothing more than a hack job with ZERO sources for the following statements.“Conspiracy theories about Secretary of State Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin being linked to the Muslim Brotherhood ““Loosely sourced contention that Huma Abedin, the Muslim-American wife of former Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), had ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.”The letters written by Representative Bachmann definitely was not loosely sourced and contained not even a sliver of conspiracy theories. And Rep. Bachmann never said Huma Abedin had ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.And yes all of Representative Bachmann’s letters are available for reading.“Practicing Muslim and fellow Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) didn't take to kindly to Bachmann's insinuations, and sent her a letter asking her to provide him with "a full accounting of the sources you used to make the serious allegations against the individuals and organizations in your letters." He also warned her that there had better be "credible, substantial evidence" for her claims.”Yes, Rep. Ellison who started this brouhaha with his lies and misrepresentation demanded a letter, and he received a letter from Rep. Backmann.http://bachmann.hous...ep._ellison.pdfRead the letter. I think you will agree that Rep. Ellison was exposed for who he is, A LIAR.Looking back in history we see that we have been having this conversation since the 1700’s. http://www.city-jour..._jefferson.htmlJefferson would perhaps have been just as eager to send a squadron to put down anyChristian piracy that was restraining commerce. But one cannot get around what Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripoli’s ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, America’s two foremost envoys were informed that “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.” (It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, or in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia.)

I'm not interested in arguing the specifics, or Bachmann/Ellison or anything. I was just pointing out the similarity between the anti-Muslim position that is often taken publicly by politicans and usually defended by people like me, and the anti-Mormon position which I see being taken very rarely by actual politicians and often taken by people like me. I think we're all being pretty contradictory.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

This is pretty funny but a sad commentary on the state of politics.I almost expected to be offered a Sham Wow at the end.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t2ZTYRjPP4&feature=player_embedded

[JustDoIt 10]

I'm not interested in arguing the specifics, or Bachmann/Ellison or anything. I was just pointing out the similarity between the anti-Muslim position that is often taken publicly by politicans and usually defended by people like me, and the anti-Mormon position which I see being taken very rarely by actual politicians and often taken by people like me. I think we're all being pretty contradictory.

I understand what you are saying. I was pointing out that RHETORIC and LIES obfuscate legitimate concerns. I will use Mr. Harris as a example. He has a legitimate issue with John McCain, but his inflammatory rhetoric totally obfuscated his issue.I understand your concerns with the Mormon Church. I could argue that Mitt Romney could fulfill his commitment to the church by being a good President. And of course we have another Mormon in the position of power Harry Reid.When it comes to Mormons I guess you could call me biased since I live in Mormon country and grew up with friends who are Mormon including one who was very high in the church being a member of the Quorum of 70.The church does a lot of good including their welfare system. In my neighborhood the elderly of all faiths do not have to worry about fall leaves because the Mormons go through the neighbor hood and clean up the leaves. And of course I let my Mormon neighbor farm my land. They have raised 12 kids and every morning when I get up the 4 kids still at home are already out there working.I know a person not by label but by what is in their heart.

[Balloon guy 158]

How magnanimous of you to give credit to Muslim as being a religion. And doubly so that you are kind enough not to hate them by not caring about any of them. You obviously have a well-rounded and thoughtfully considered view of the world.Christians are the most violent group of people in the world. Not hate, just a fact. They just don't consider themselves to be because they assume their Christian morality to be general morality, whereas the world (including Muslims) acknowledge that the Muslim religion determines the ethical views of those who follow.

Did they change the definitions of words last night? Cause fact doesn't mean what you are trying to mean.In fact, if you divide amount of violence by years in action, atheism is so far and away the most violent world view, that Islam would be classified a mild level of violence.Of course, killing people is what atheist are best at, that and sucking off the society Christians created, while never creating anything themselves ( except for the mass graves and better ways of killing the most people in a short period of time )Now those are actual facts, not revisionist silliness only believed by the sheep who can't figure out the Google!

[JustDoIt 10]

This is pretty funny but a sad commentary on the state of politics.I almost expected to be offered a Sham Wow at the end.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t2ZTYRjPP4&feature=player_embedded

Again obfuscating the issues.Edit:Kind of crazy isn't it?Va. state senator blames racism for Romney gains...........Lucas is a member of Obama’s “Truth Team,”http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-politics/post/va-state-senator-blames-racism-for-romney-gains/2012/07/24/gJQAArsQ7W_blog.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03876wG1pmY

[akoff 0]

you will learn Bob seldom posts links to anything but liberal garbage. he is very smooth but don't let that mislead you he is way left of most.

[DJ Vu 176]

you will learn Bob seldom posts links to anything but liberal garbage.

lol

[Roll the Bones 74]

I understand what you are saying. I was pointing out that RHETORIC and LIES obfuscate legitimate concerns. I will use Mr. Harris as a example. He has a legitimate issue with John McCain, but his inflammatory rhetoric totally obfuscated his issue.I understand your concerns with the Mormon Church. I could argue that Mitt Romney could fulfill his commitment to the church by being a good President. And of course we have another Mormon in the position of power Harry Reid.When it comes to Mormons I guess you could call me biased since I live in Mormon country and grew up with friends who are Mormon including one who was very high in the church being a member of the Quorum of 70.The church does a lot of good including their welfare system. In my neighborhood the elderly of all faiths do not have to worry about fall leaves because the Mormons go through the neighbor hood and clean up the leaves. And of course I let my Mormon neighbor farm my land. They have raised 12 kids and every morning when I get up the 4 kids still at home are already out there working.I know a person not by label but by what is in their heart.

Well, actually the Mormon church is a vast tax free business that does little actual charity. The amount of money they give to charity is well under 1% of the actual take. An NGO would be run out of town and ostracized for such a record. But the truth is most churches aren't that much better. Walmart gave more money to charity last year than the Mormons in their entire history.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Did they change the definitions of words last night? Cause fact doesn't mean what you are trying to mean.In fact, if you divide amount of violence by years in action, atheism is so far and away the most violent world view, that Islam would be classified a mild level of violence.Of course, killing people is what atheist are best at, that and sucking off the society Christians created, while never creating anything themselves ( except for the mass graves and better ways of killing the most people in a short period of time )Now those are actual facts, not revisionist silliness only believed by the sheep who can't figure out the Google!

Well, you might have something except athiesm isn't a "world view" and has absolutely nothing to do with government ideology other than to keep religon out of it.

[brvheart 1,752]

Well, actually the Mormon church is a vast tax free business that does little actual charity. The amount of money they give to charity is well under 1% of the actual take. An NGO would be run out of town and ostracized for such a record. But the truth is most churches aren't that much better. Walmart gave more money to charity last year than the Mormons in their entire history.

That all depends on how you are defining charity. Just because they don't give it to an outside group or organization, doesn't mean that money isn't being used to help people. I'M NOT DEFENDING THE MORMON CHURCH!

[brvheart 1,752]

except athiesm isn't a "world view"

You're crazy.

[Balloon guy 158]

Well, you might have something except athiesm isn't a "world view" and has absolutely nothing to do with government ideology other than to keep religon out of it.

So they believe that religion is the opium of the people?

[Balloon guy 158]

Well, actually the Mormon church is a vast tax free business that does little actual charity. The amount of money they give to charity is well under 1% of the actual take. An NGO would be run out of town and ostracized for such a record. But the truth is most churches aren't that much better. Walmart gave more money to charity last year than the Mormons in their entire history.

Compared to atheist organizations,I would put up the worst offenders of the Christian faith and probably have to still give you a few points

[timwakefield 68]

Compared to atheist organizations,I would put up the worst offenders of the Christian faith and probably have to still give you a few points

http://en.wikipedia....ates_FoundationI see your lack of citations and raise you $33.5 billion.

[DJ Vu 176]

Is it normal for charities to donate to other charities?

[Balloon guy 158]

http://en.wikipedia....ates_FoundationI see your lack of citations and raise you $33.5 billion.

Hadn't read where Bill Gates has become the leader of the atheist churchBut glad you feel that the actions of 1 person is enough to justify the lack of action for the whole...

[timwakefield 68]

Hadn't read where Bill Gates has become the leader of the atheist churchBut glad you feel that the actions of 1 person is enough to justify the lack of action for the whole...

"Atheist church" is an oxymoron. You said atheist organizations. I assumed that a non-religious organization headed by an atheist counted.

[Balloon guy 158]

"Atheist church" is an oxymoron. You said atheist organizations. I assumed that a non-religious organization headed by an atheist counted.

I agree, any non-religious organization headed by an atheist counts as an atheist organization.Don't forget though that the Atheist Church has tax exempt status according to the IRS. So you're not knowing about them doesn't mean they don't exist. ( btw, their leader was murdered by one of the 'faithful' for money, which seems to me to be pretty consistent with their teachings )

[JustDoIt 10]

Well, actually the Mormon church is a vast tax free business that does little actual charity. The amount of money they give to charity is well under 1% of the actual take. An NGO would be run out of town and ostracized for such a record. But the truth is most churches aren't that much better. Walmart gave more money to charity last year than the Mormons in their entire history.

I have no response since it is obvious you have no clue of what you are talking about.

[mrdannyg 274]

I understand what you are saying. I was pointing out that RHETORIC and LIES obfuscate legitimate concerns. I will use Mr. Harris as a example. He has a legitimate issue with John McCain, but his inflammatory rhetoric totally obfuscated his issue.I understand your concerns with the Mormon Church. I could argue that Mitt Romney could fulfill his commitment to the church by being a good President. And of course we have another Mormon in the position of power Harry Reid.When it comes to Mormons I guess you could call me biased since I live in Mormon country and grew up with friends who are Mormon including one who was very high in the church being a member of the Quorum of 70.The church does a lot of good including their welfare system. In my neighborhood the elderly of all faiths do not have to worry about fall leaves because the Mormons go through the neighbor hood and clean up the leaves. And of course I let my Mormon neighbor farm my land. They have raised 12 kids and every morning when I get up the 4 kids still at home are already out there working.I know a person not by label but by what is in their heart.

I like everything you say here. I don't live near any Mormons, but I understand they are generally a kind, charitable group. They, generally, use their religious beliefs as a basis for actions that most of us would consider good. And I also agree that encouraging a 'good' society would be an excellent way for Romney (or any other Mormon) to fulfill his Church's requirements.This kind of falls apart in two ways:- Romney (and any other Mormon in politics) does plenty of things that would not really be considered generally good. Mostly because it's impossible, since high-level politicians have to decide on things like abortion, which won't be generally seen as good by a majority of people no matter what he does. So it falls down to personal politics and beliefs, which we can assume are in line with the Church's. Logically then, a strong religious figure in a political role will make decisions based on religious beliefs.- Everything you said applies to Muslims. I promise, even though the media and your neighbours tell you all brown people are terrorists. I promise that is true. There are violent Muslims too, who say they are acting in the name of their Quran, and the media will tell you that is because the Quran says to kill all infidels or some shit. Well, the Mormon Bible says plenty of awful things too if people followed them precisely, but most Mormons do not and act well.

Did they change the definitions of words last night? Cause fact doesn't mean what you are trying to mean.In fact, if you divide amount of violence by years in action, atheism is so far and away the most violent world view, that Islam would be classified a mild level of violence.Of course, killing people is what atheist are best at, that and sucking off the society Christians created, while never creating anything themselves ( except for the mass graves and better ways of killing the most people in a short period of time )Now those are actual facts, not revisionist silliness only believed by the sheep who can't figure out the Google!

You're hilariously wrong. Christians are, by an incredibly significant margin, the most violent group in history. It's only because Christians try to pretend that those who do violent things while identifying as Christians are not 'really' Christians because...well they did bad things. Whereas any (communist or otherwise) regime without a publicly-stated belief is assumed to be atheist. Even though, of course, atheism is not equal to not being religious, and that most of these situations involved atheism only to avoid any power high than the regimes, rather than basing their murders on atheist beliefs and the eradication of non-atheists.Hitler: Christian.

[mrdannyg 274]

I now have a new favourite website. Highlights so far, two examples of Christians I looked up had a heading of Religion: (some form of Christianity). The two murderers I looked up instead had a heading of "Claimed Religion". And in both cases, it stated the the murderers religions were "rejected" (no citations given). Even though it lists Hitler's Christian beliefs as "rejected", it does include this paragraph:"Despite the common myth that Hitler was an atheist, Hitler was actually a confirmed Roman Catholic Christian. In Mein Kampf, Hitler wrote, “by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord”. However, he was not very strong in his religious beliefs, and it is likely he only mentioned Christianity in his speeches to gain the votes and favor of both Catholics and Protestants."Of course! He only mentioned Christianity to curry favour. Wasn't really a Christian. Now those Muslims and Atheists though, THEY are the best examples of their faith.http://www.conservapedia.com/Mitt_Romneyhttp://www.conservapedia.com/Mao_Zedonghttp://www.conservapedia.com/Adolf_Hitlerhttp://www.conservapedia.com/Michele_BachmannBachmann's might be my favourite. The second paragraph:"Bachmann is pro-life, pro-gun,^[3] pro-religion and holds many other core conservative values. She is widely considered one of the most important politicians in the fight against evolution. A search for her on Google turns up five positive sites for every 100 nasty liberal smear sites, like the Huffington Post."Holy crap.

[Balloon guy 158]

Well, I knew one person who was very much in support of evolution, used it to guide his national policy of evolved people and the need to remove the undesirable genes from the gene pool.He claimed to be one thing, but his actions were decidedly Darwinian Evolutionist...And I know of two countries that used the doctrine that religion is the opium of the people as a foundation to begin their reign, and had atheism as the national belief in their country...who then began to 'clean out' the undesirables in their country by the tens of millions. A few other countries also followed this belief, but they only killed a few million people.Now I know you want to say that since some of these people walked physically into a church once or twice in their life that you get to attribute their actions solely into the 'religious side of the equation...but the rest of the world acknowledges that they weren't.Don't worry, it will probably happen again, and we can watch millions of people killed to 'clean the gene pool' or 'purify the state' and you can see it first hand. Because those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.