2012 Elections

[custom36 4]

We see things different. I had a couple of friends that lived on a kibbutz for a year. She had picture of their children's outings where the parents were all armed with Uzis because that's required for kid's school trips..fully armed parents. Yes Israel has nukes, has for years. Is the region more or less stable because of it? I say more.

 

 

 

I don't understand how you go from; would prefer other's gave us their approval to only act with support of others. Its not a leap to say Turkey was going to retaliate no matter what but on their way called NATO and said: We're doing this. But another to say that NATO gave permission.

 

 

 

 

 

I think Bush was right about one thing. You don't overthrow a dictator and leave a vacuum and hope for the best. But we also learned that regime change is hard. The issue becomes; what is the price?

America cannot force people to want freedom, we used to think we could. Some people don't want freedom like we do. As such we are acting with good intentions but with poor methods. My belief has probably evolved more into accepting that some countries need dictators. And if they have enough oil, then it is sometimes necessary to do ugly things.

 

 

 

 

But you forget Obama took actions, different actions for different countries.

 

Egypt, which was super pro-US: He basically told Mubarik to leave, using Hillary to make speeches demanding it.

Libya, which was also pro-US: he sent airships to bomb tanks to "stop the mass killings" ( there were 2,500 deaths at the time of this decision )

Syria, which was super anti-US: Nothing ( to date 25,000 people have died )

Tunisia, which was at best negative-US: Nothing

 

So the pro-US countries he actiavely helped overthrow the government.

The anti-US countries he did nothing to help overthrow the governments.

 

That's poor leadership

 

My reaction didn't change, I think you're not seeing the link between my two statements. It's tough to imagine that Turkey would strike without talking to anyone internationally first and I imagine if NATO said "We don't want you to strike back, we want to do X" then Turkey would've held off. But, I think the question itself in reality was a formality. They, like any country, have a right to retalitory strikes, but like any country probably wouldn't do so without knowing that a more powerful isn't going to object.

 

In regards to the Arab Spring, it's important for both sides to remember that hindsight is 20/20, but:

 

Multiple reports had the Obama administration secretly supplying the Egyptian rebels, then using public pressure to get Mubarak to leave. In Egypt, this seemed the most appropriate strategy.

Airships to bomb Gaddahif's tanks were a decision I supported and I thought our government along with our allies' governments should've done significantly more to support the pro-Democracy rebellions. It's important to understand how many GOPers were yelling at him not to get involved as well.

In Syria, I think everyone should be helping the rebels to end this quickly. They're turning to extremism and the rebellion that was pro-US sees us as abandoning them. Romney doesn't support helping them either though, so it's tough to make an argument here.

Tunisia didn't need us. We didn't need to do anything from what I've read.

 

You (and me) are using over-simplified arguments here. Leadership isn't just taking action, it's knowing when you should take action and when you should let things play out. We have different views of how Obama should've led, but it doesn't make him a poor leader.

[DJ Vu 176]

2006. I'm not going to keep looking, I'm retired.

 

Republicans are screwed up, but at least they say what they believe in and follow through. (Except for the government spending thing in the last 6 years)

 

Except for this, which was fun:

 

The policies put into place over the last 6 years will continue to improve the economic state of the country directly for the next 5+ years, and the nice happy economy the next President inherits - Democrat or Republican - will be attributed to them, not Bush.

[Balloon guy 158]

 

My reaction didn't change, I think you're not seeing the link between my two statements. It's tough to imagine that Turkey would strike without talking to anyone internationally first and I imagine if NATO said "We don't want you to strike back, we want to do X" then Turkey would've held off. But, I think the question itself in reality was a formality. They, like any country, have a right to retalitory strikes, but like any country probably wouldn't do so without knowing that a more powerful isn't going to object.

 

In regards to the Arab Spring, it's important for both sides to remember that hindsight is 20/20, but:

 

Multiple reports had the Obama administration secretly supplying the Egyptian rebels, then using public pressure to get Mubarak to leave. In Egypt, this seemed the most appropriate strategy.

Airships to bomb Gaddahif's tanks were a decision I supported and I thought our government along with our allies' governments should've done significantly more to support the pro-Democracy rebellions. It's important to understand how many GOPers were yelling at him not to get involved as well.

In Syria, I think everyone should be helping the rebels to end this quickly. They're turning to extremism and the rebellion that was pro-US sees us as abandoning them. Romney doesn't support helping them either though, so it's tough to make an argument here.

Tunisia didn't need us. We didn't need to do anything from what I've read.

 

You (and me) are using over-simplified arguments here. Leadership isn't just taking action, it's knowing when you should take action and when you should let things play out. We have different views of how Obama should've led, but it doesn't make him a poor leader.

 

Good post, I get what you are saying.

It is hard to look at anything without applying hind sight, so I'll grant that its hard to 'do the right thing' no matter what you do when it comes to the muslim countries because of the blurry lines of which ones are actually regular people of a different religion who just want to raise their families, and which ones are 'kill the jews and the great satan' nut cases.

 

As far as Obama's leadership, I have no examples that support any argument that he is good at it..

[Balloon guy 158]

The best satire is based on the truth.

Romney Proudly Explains How He's Turned Campaign Around

 

'I'm Lying More,' He Says

 

When you have to use the Onion as your source..you've admitted defeat.

[CaneBrain 95]

2006. I'm not going to keep looking, I'm retired.

 

 

 

Except for this, which was fun:

 

That NC quote makes everything worth it.

[Balloon guy 158]

That NC quote makes everything worth it.

 

But the other quote destroys your argument completely.

[CaneBrain 95]

But the other quote destroys your argument completely.

 

It diminishes it a little bit. The casual way you throw it out and the lack of anger or worry you express about it is in stark contrast to the way you treated the national debt during Obama's term.

 

And that's totally worth it to have the NC gem pop up. Almost as much as seeing a classic BG moment from the past----"The GOP sticks to their principles, except the one they preach the most."

[DJ Vu 176]

I agree that the republicans are dropping the ball with their out of control spending, followed with voting to increase our debt today..they should all get canned. You start the paperwork to get them all shipped to Iraq for road cleaning duty and I'll sign it, along with most of the people I know..

 

The government should be on a shoestring budget, not an uncontrolled spending spree.One of my biggest shames is how much Bush has failed to represent the conservative ideal of lowering taxes and spending. he's done an awful job and that will prevent him from getting the Nobel Peace Prize he deserves. ( That's for you Checky, didn't want you to not blow a gasket at least once today )

[Balloon guy 158]

It diminishes it a little bit. The casual way you throw it out and the lack of anger or worry you express about it is in stark contrast to the way you treated the national debt during Obama's term.

 

And that's totally worth it to have the NC gem pop up. Almost as much as seeing a classic BG moment from the past----"The GOP sticks to their principles, except the one they preach the most."

 

 

Ahh..so not only do you know the future actions of Romney, the inner thoughts of Bush, but now you know the intent to my posts.

 

And you haven't won the lottery with all your ESPN powers why?

 

 

Well it will be to your complete triumph to show how you threw down NC's posts immediately upon reading it in 2006...

 

I won't be holding my breath. I fear it will not be an easy search for even someone as retired as JJJ

[akoff 0]

It diminishes it a little bit. The casual way you throw it out and the lack of anger or worry you express about it is in stark contrast to the way you treated the national debt during Obama's term.

 

And that's totally worth it to have the NC gem pop up. Almost as much as seeing a classic BG moment from the past----"The GOP sticks to their principles, except the one they preach the most."

Ahh..so not only do you know the future actions of Romney, the inner thoughts of Bush, but now you know the intent to my posts.

 

And you haven't won the lottery with all your ESPN powers why?

 

 

Well it will be to your complete triumph to show how you threw down NC's posts immediately upon reading it in 2006...

 

I won't be holding my breath. I fear it will not be an easy search for even someone as retired as JJJ

 

another beat down - the boy is persistent

[CaneBrain 95]

Ahh..so not only do you know the future actions of Romney, the inner thoughts of Bush, but now you know the intent to my posts.

 

And you haven't won the lottery with all your ESPN powers why?

 

Because I just take from you $100 at a time. DJ has me nailed on this one though. Oh well.

 

Can you guarantee Romney won't do what Bush did? Why should it be different this time? His tax plan is already showing those leaks----relying on closing a bunch of loopholes and deductions tbd.....

[CaneBrain 95]

another beat down - the boy is persistent

 

lol

[Balloon guy 158]

Because I just take from you $100 at a time. DJ has me nailed on this one though. Oh well.

 

Can you guarantee Romney won't do what Bush did? Why should it be different this time? His tax plan is already showing those leaks----relying on closing a bunch of loopholes and deductions tbd.....

 

Romney will likely be another establishment republican.

 

It will still be better than Obama.

[CaneBrain 95]

It would appear my first post in the politics forum here was not until October 2008. I joined much earlier than that so that's surprising to me. I guess now I know why my recollection of what BG said in 2006 was so bad, but I can't be blamed for not shitting all over NC's economic optimism.

[CaneBrain 95]

This is what the general public is not understanding. His proposal in financially not feasible.andevery time I hear a politician say we are going to get rid of corporate loophole, first I cringe, then I L O L, because all they are going to do is what yo ujust said, remove or phase out deductions and/or exemptions.

 

pretty relevant given Romney's economic plan.

[CaneBrain 95]

POLLS, SCHMOLLS!I listened to a show on the radio the other day.They had on John Zogby, Scott Rasmussen, Stanley Greenberg, who all concluded....they are stumped this go round and would not bet on this one.They also all agreed that we won't know until the days after the election who won, it's gonna be that close.Zogby also said that he DOESN'T EVEN TRUST HIS OWN POLLS!, mainly due to something he referred to as the Bradley effect, where a bunch of folks replied one way and then voted another the day of.( http://en.wikipedia..../Bradley_effect )So the Polls, by the major pollsters own words, are fairly unreliable, change daily, and thus are virtually meaningless this go round.weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 

This post could have come from Fox News two weeks ago.

 

AP = vitrual dead heat.McCain will win. Mark this post.

 

My favorite old topic:

 

Bush Is A Good President

 

Started by Balloon guy, Mar 15 2006 05:21 PM

[colonel Feathers 5]

Romney will likely be another establishment republican.

 

It will still be better than Obama.

Romney will have to be different, the economy is just toobad for any social experimentations, or overseas adventurism. Im guessing romney will go all out getting our own oil, becoming independent, and telling the middle east to go to hell.Then moving israel to upstate new york creating a voting block that will dwarf personal injury attorneys.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

 

Your statements on Israel seem to reflect either a lack of understanding or a refusal to look at another point of view. Israel routinely ignores UN resolutions and international calls that they quit building on Palestinian land. Despite no real evidence that Iran is building nuclear weapons, Israel continues to push for war. They are well stocked with weapons and can more than defend themselves - I'd never advocate for completely taking away support, but treating them like they never do anything wrong is a miscalculation. Few Middle Eastern countries want to wipe Israel off the map (Iran sure, but not Egypt. Or Jordan. Or Turkey. Maybe Saudi Arabia? But it doesn't matter because they're allies, right?), but most DO support a two-state solution. Israel's like that annoying kid in school that would harass someone and then hide behind a big class bully (that's us, BTW). Obama supports Israel more than I'd prefer, but the GOP's stance towards them really harms our relations with those all-important oil-producing countries.

 

 

What Palestinian land? The Palestinian people didn't even exists until they were created by the media and the UN.

Israel is facing the point of the gun from people sworn to destroy them every moment of every day, how would you react to that?

[JubilantLankyLad 1,957]

Quiz: Ron Swanson's 'Pyramid of Greatness' or Mitt Romney's 'No Apology'? — http://t.co/n0VfwL3J"

[brvheart 1,752]

The answer begins and ends with Ron Swanson. In every situation.

[custom36 4]

What Palestinian land? The Palestinian people didn't even exists until they were created by the media and the UN.

Israel is facing the point of the gun from people sworn to destroy them every moment of every day, how would you react to that?

 

Really? Outside of Iran, who in the general vicinity wants to wipe them off the map? Saudi Arabia doesn't count IMO given their alliance with the US. From all I've seen, Turkey, Jordan, Syria (Iraq & Afghanistan? Do they count?) want a peaceful solution.

[Balloon guy 158]

This post could have come from Fox News two weeks ago.

 

 

 

My favorite old topic:

 

Bush Is A Good President

 

Started by Balloon guy, Mar 15 2006 05:21 PM

 

I knew I was your favorite.

 

2006..weren't your ball hairs just starting to show up then?

[SAM_Hard8 50]

Really? Outside of Iran, who in the general vicinity wants to wipe them off the map? Saudi Arabia doesn't count IMO given their alliance with the US. From all I've seen, Turkey, Jordan, Syria (Iraq & Afghanistan? Do they count?) want a peaceful solution.

 

Uh the "Palestinians" the supposed folks that they are stealing the supposed land from.

 

Oh and Iran isn't just some little harmless nation either that you can just brush off like they don't count. And you can't wipe out the history of both Egypt and Syria both attacking them with the radical changes to their governments.

 

If all those great nations wanted peace they could put pressure on and support Palestinian leaders that also want piece. You think Hezbollah gets their weapons from thin air?

[Balloon guy 158]

I'm sure Israel will be happy to know that only Iran is gunning for them now.

 

Should be nice not having random rockets fired into their cities from their neighbors anymore.

[Balloon guy 158]

If Romney's people have any problems with the upcoming foreign policy debates, it will be because they have too many examples of the ineptness of the Obama administration's actions.

 

While Libya' embassy was being turned down for increased security request, Vienna was getting extra money for Chevy Volts so we can show the world how 'green' we are.