Official Republicans In Congress Are Idiots Thread

[hblask 1]

and that is the sad part. u really should stop posting, i think u may have overtaken bg as the most clueless one here (palin? are u serious??? LOL).

I'm sorry that you have no idea why the Soviet Union failed. You should probably read some history, preferably from a source other than AJ.The primary cause of why they and all socialist experiments fail is because of the disconnect between supply and demand. Without free floating prices, there is no means by which any planner can have enough information to make correct decisions. Having realized that, they tried to declare everyone be productive and accept state-mandated payments. It was that magical thinking that caused the fall of the Soviet Union, the notion that if enough bureaucrats say something that the productive and intelligent in society will just roll over and waste their life in the service of some imaginary greater good.

[Balloon guy 158]

More absurdity from the Neocons. Why should Obama agree to a plan which solves nothing and requires absolutely zero concessions from Republicans? Republicans have known about this problem for months and have come up with nothing reasonable. How is 5 more months conceivably going to change this? Unless Republicans think they will be hurt in the polls then they will never be rational. The best solution is to declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional and end this stupid charade once and for all. The next best solution is to postpone the next debt ceiling fiasco until after the election. That way the public will get to weigh in first on whether the Republican idiocy is really what they want. If they do get the presidency, then at least Republicans will be seen as 100% responsible for the government collapse that they seem to want.

The democrats had super majority status while controlling all of congress and the white house for two years.The republicans have been in office for a few months after completely and utterly embarrassing the stupid democrats with a record beating smack downBut you are right, when it comes to getting something done right, the republicans are our best choice to demand action from.

[Balloon guy 158]

I haven't discussed the debt limit issue much yet. Here's my take:- Obama is right to want a long term deal out of this. It should certainly be a major goal of the summer for congress to pass a large bill addressing our debt issues.

Long term is not really long term. A new budget will come next year, and in 2012 when we have a republican president, he will likely change it again. Long term is not really an option. Not really.

- That bill should be include spending cuts as well as revenue increases. The spending cuts should come from all parts of government: discretionary spending, military, and some, but a very limited amount, should come from medicare and medicaid.

Cut medicare? Didn't you hear? There is enough money in medicare and medicaid to fund Obama's health care plan. If we cut it, then how will we get free healthcare?

- Having said all that, THE most important thing is not only raising the debt ceiling, but showing the world (read: the financial world) that we're not at risk of defaulting at any point. imo, the best way to do this would be to eliminate the debt ceiling all together. The only purpose it serves now is to get congress to think critically about the debt, even if only during a very short and critical time.

That reason alone makes it a worthy system. They are addicted to spending, both sides. Having nothing to slow them down and trusting them to not do what they've all done since they've been in office is not a strategy I can agree with.

- The republicans were extremely foolish not to accept Obama's $4 trillion plan. Well, maybe not "foolish" because it would have been seen as a major victory for Obama, and since their only goal is to get rid of him, it would have hurt them politically. But it would have been a great move for the country and was certainly in line with Republican view points for the past few decades (large spending cuts with minimal tax increases, mostly from closing loopholes on the rich).

Whenever a liberal person tells me what the republican should do to help them politically, I know that the opposite is the best thing they can do for the country.The record breaking replacement of democrats by republicans in the last election cycle was founded on the very action of cutting spending. How would republicans gain by going against the campaign promise that got them all elected?

- Our system of legislation is broken. It only works if the two parties have ANY interest whatsoever in working together. Since they clearly don't, and really haven't for the past 10 years, there's no way to get anything done. Even with a supermajority, it's still difficult.

Which is why the democrat party needs to be utterly defeated and made a non-entity. Then we can get republicans who act like democrats to challenge republicans who act like conservatives, without the R vs D labels.

- This whole "debt ceiling" debate has, unfortunately, taken the focus away from the real issue, which is the 9% unemployment. They two ARE related, of course, but not to the extent that many claim. The debt issue works on a longer time scale and will hurt us in the long run. The unemployment hurts us now (as well as in the long run since being unemployed for a long time period, especially at an early age, really hurts your future salary returns). We need big ideas, and we're not getting them from anywhere in Washington. Heck, even Balloon Guy has better, more original ideas than anything I've seen come from the US government.

Friggin Mayans were right...

- (imo, when the government wants big ideas, they shouldn't go asking Wall Street or Business leaders exclusively. It wouldn't hurt to talk to people who have some experience deling with difficult problems in creative ways, aka scientists, engineers, computer scientists, etc)

I am not against the notion of getting as many minds involved with solving problems like Bush did. But you can't ignore that whenever we have turned to academia to 'fix' our government with frsh new ideas, they fail ten times worse than the business people.Although it seems like I disagreed with you mostly, I still think you are level headed enough to merit hearing your ideas.Except with regards to music.

[mk 11]

so i used to think henry was kind of smart, but of course unrealistic, dogmatic, blindly ideological and all that which comes from being a LP true believer, but after reading just this last page of this threadyeah, not so much

[mk 11]

SOAs your local government debt professional, allow me to weigh in.Here's what's going on: politics as usual. This has been happening since the debt ceiling was first implemented. The minority party holds the government hostage and makes their demands and threatens to not raise the debt ceiling unless they achieve x, y, z, etc. Democrats did it to Reagan (who required like 18 increases in the ceiling fyi), Republicans did it to Clinton (almost identically to what we see currently).In the end, they all know how mind-blowingly, earth-shatteringly godawful it would be for basically all people everywhere if the U.S. were to actually default. If you think we saw a credit crisis when Lehman and Bear couldn't pay their obligations, well, imagine the counter-party jitters when THE risk-free benchmark sovereign bond becomes a risk asset. Just for background, the credit market is still basically locked up because people (lenders) are still so spooked from Lehman/Bear (due to the perception of counter-party risk). If the U.S. actually defaults we would see the tightest credit and lowest liquidity in modern financial history. It would take decades to unravel, and by the time the market sorted it out the U.S. debt service would be more like 15-25% of the budget rather than the current ~6%. If anarchy is your thing, allowing the U.S. to default is a pretty great first step toward achieving your aims.FEARLESS PREDICTION: For the rest of the week, Boehner, Cantor et al continue to pander to the tea party on taxes and remain content to drag, kick, pummel and stone a hamstrung Obama so they can claim some pyrrhic victory for the 2012 campaign. Then, over the weekend, an emergency partial increase to some near-term deadline is reached (obviously a negative as it risks downgrade, makes us look as feckless as Greece etc. but it seems clear the Rs WANT to see a single solution fail so they have fodder for 2012 – TPers especially).

[hblask 1]

The first rating agency to recognize the problems at Enron, the first rating agency to recognize the problems at WorldCom, downgraded US debt. Is it because of the problems with the debt ceiling? Let's see what they say:

We are less concerned about a short delinquency caused by a delay in raising the debt ceiling than we are about the relatively high debt" to gross domestic product, the firm's president, Sean Egan, said in an email. "We also are concerned about the costs of three undeclared wars [near $3 trillion], failures to take meaningful actions to address the causes of the debt crises [the cost was near $2 trillion], and the rise in entitlement payments stemming from the retirement of the baby boom generation."

Or, we could believe The Bernank and Obama, the very people who have mismanaged the economy for the last two years and brought us to this point.

[SilentSnow 1]

If anarchy is your thing, allowing the U.S. to default is a pretty great first step toward achieving your aims.FEARLESS PREDICTION: For the rest of the week, Boehner, Cantor et al continue to pander to the tea party on taxes and remain content to drag, kick, pummel and stone a hamstrung Obama so they can claim some pyrrhic victory for the 2012 campaign. Then, over the weekend, an emergency partial increase to some near-term deadline is reached (obviously a negative as it risks downgrade, makes us look as feckless as Greece etc. but it seems clear the Rs WANT to see a single solution fail so they have fodder for 2012 – TPers especially).

It's a mistake to think that this is entirely a reasonable debate among reasonable people trying to find a solution to our debt problem. There are people who's fundamental goal is to destroy modern society. Henry is one of them. Of course in their fantasy world we will all be better off when we have the same laws as we did in the 1890's. They completely ignore that life was hell for most of the population back then, and a good part of this difference was not due to technology. Iphones are not going to help out much when there are no health standards, economic regulations, safety nets, public infrastructure, environmental laws or any sort of long term plan other than the maximum possible exploitation of the poor and middle class in our patriotic banana republic. Your prediction is probably accurate though. The corporate overlords exploit the useful idiots in the tea party to continue their rule, but they aren't going to let the tea party rubes destroy the US financial system.

[mk 11]

Or, we could believe The Bernank and Obama, the very people who have mismanaged the economy for the last two years and brought us to this point.

You really don't get it.

[CaneBrain 95]

You really don't get it.

I can't stop laughing at the idea that it's "the last two years" that have "brought us to this point".

[hblask 1]

It's a mistake to think that this is entirely a reasonable debate among reasonable people trying to find a solution to our debt problem. There are people who's fundamental goal is to destroy modern society. Henry is one of them.

LOL, yeah, I'm the one who asked for $14T in debt (oh wait, that was your guys), the one who is flooding the market with money (oh wait, that's your guys), the one who thinks endless irresponsible spending is OK (oh wait, that was your guys).At least try to come visit reality a little before you post, and you won't be so openly mocked here.

[hblask 1]

I can't stop laughing at the idea that it's "the last two years" that have "brought us to this point".

.He then served as Chairman of President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers before President Bush appointed him to be Chairman of the United States Federal Reserve on February 1, 2006.

2011 - 2006 = five years, and he was influential before that. Yes, the Bernank is one of the architects of this downturn, and has moved in the wrong direction every single time he had a decision to make.

[CaneBrain 95]

2011 - 2006 = five years, and he was influential before that. Yes, the Bernank is one of the architects of this downturn, and has moved in the wrong direction every single time he had a decision to make.

While I would point out that the real mistakes came in Bush's 1st term, I was more commentating on the inclusion of Obama in that statement.

[akoff 0]

I can't stop laughing at the idea that it's "the last two years" that have "brought us to this point".

there is plenty of guilt to go arund. the last two years were only far and away the biggest and most damaging parts.

[akoff 0]

It's a mistake to think that this is entirely a reasonable debate among reasonable people trying to find a solution to our debt problem. There are people who's fundamental goal is to destroy modern society. Henry is one of them. Of course in their fantasy world we will all be better off when we have the same laws as we did in the 1890's. They completely ignore that life was hell for most of the population back then, and a good part of this difference was not due to technology. Iphones are not going to help out much when there are no health standards, economic regulations, safety nets, public infrastructure, environmental laws or any sort of long term plan other than the maximum possible exploitation of the poor and middle class in our patriotic banana republic. Your prediction is probably accurate though. The corporate overlords exploit the useful idiots in the tea party to continue their rule, but they aren't going to let the tea party rubes destroy the US financial system.

our debt problem is nothing more then a spending problem...it is very simple to cut spending. of course you have to be a man about it and know that it will be a painful process. not that many in washington or other government positions would understand that.

[hblask 1]

While I would point out that the real mistakes came in Bush's 1st term, I was more commentating on the inclusion of Obama in that statement.

Obama has done everything possible to ensure that there is no chance of recovery. If he had at least picked his foot up off the accelerator, he would get some credit for that.

[SilentSnow 1]

LOL, yeah, I'm the one who asked for $14T in debt (oh wait, that was your guys), the one who is flooding the market with money (oh wait, that's your guys), the one who thinks endless irresponsible spending is OK (oh wait, that was your guys).At least try to come visit reality a little before you post, and you won't be so openly mocked here.

Can you find a single statement I have ever made that wasn't backed up by facts? So far you have not. You're the one that most people think is crazy in case you haven't noticed. If you want to assign blame for the deficit, I would guess that Republicans are responsible for 70-80% of it. And for the record, I am all for reducing the deficit. But I am for doing it in a rational manner by fixing by far the 3 biggest problems- extremely low tax rates on the rich, insane levels of military spending and lack of a single payer health plan that every other wealthy country has. See posts 147 and 161 in this thread for a few more details. Just for fun, why don't you explain what major laws you support that passed since 1900?

[hblask 1]

You're the one that most people think is crazy in case you haven't noticed.

Let's put this one up for a vote. Any wagers?

[BaseJester 1]

And for the record, I am all for reducing the deficit. But I am for doing it in a rational manner by fixing by far the 3 biggest problems- extremely low tax rates on the rich, insane levels of military spending and lack of a single payer health plan that every other wealthy country has.

You're going to fix the deficit by paying for all of the nation's health care?

[SilentSnow 1]

Maybe you missed the part that said it was a bi-partisan deal.

I should update my response. This is not a bi-partisan deal.Reid plan- 2.7 trillion in spending cuts, NO tax increases, raise the debt ceiling for about a year and a half. Republican plan- 1 trillion in spending cuts, an insane balanced budget amendment?, only put off the issue for 5 months. So Reid is offering the Republicans no tax increases and significant spending cuts. Basically, everything they claim to want. Of course they refuse to accept it because A) it doesn't allow them to hold the economy hostage again for no reason before 2012. B ) It doesn't allow them to dismantle popular government programs with no public debate or input(their real goal). Basically the Republicans are acting as economic terrorists- using their threat to destroy the economy to gain unpopular concessions that they know they currently don't have the votes for and probably won't in the future either.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Can you find a single statement I have ever made that wasn't backed up by facts?

If you want to assign blame for the deficit, I would guess that Republicans are responsible for 70-80% of it.

What do I win?

[SilentSnow 1]

You're going to fix the deficit by paying for all of the nation's health care?

It's a well known fact that the US pays twice as much on health care as other wealthy countries and is the only one without a single payer government option.

[SilentSnow 1]

What do I win?

Nothing, since that statement is true. "I'll quickly review what I've already posted before. Historically the government has taken in about 19% of GDP in revenue. Currently we are at around 14% in revenue and 24% in spending. It seems pretty clear that a significant portion of the problem is that taxes are too low.The huge majority of the deficit came from just 4 presidents- Reagan, Bush, Bush and Obama. The huge majority of the deficit was caused by tax cuts, military spending and medicaid/medicare spending. Social security did not cause any of the deficit since until now it paid for itself and all other spending is fairly trivial. So let's assign blame if you want-Tax cuts- nearly 100% republicans.Military spending- 90 % republicans. I give democrats some blame because too many corrupt democratic politicians didn't do enough to stop it.Medicare/Medicaid- Equal blame. Both parties did nothing to solve, although Republicans have done much more to prevent a solution that the rest of the civilized world uses.So Republicans get 80% of the blame for the deficit. I don't think you can reasonably interpret the facts to give them less than 70%.Also, keep in mind that Obama's deficit increasing policies towards extending the Bush tax cuts/military spending are strongly opposed by many liberals."Is there any specific part of that that you dispute?

[SilentSnow 1]

Let's put this one up for a vote. Any wagers?

The truth is not up for a vote. Why is it that you can't find a single thing that I am factually wrong about? This should be incredibly easy if I am half as crazy as you pretend.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Let's put this one up for a vote. Any wagers?

Dude, you and I have had our moments, but I'd rather have 10 of you than one Silent Snow. I know you have an underlying Personal Philosophy and work to define yourself by it in a rational manner. I don't always agree with what you say, but at least you have something to say and generally say it well.I know my "vote" doesn't count for much (especially during the times that I start to turn into the "Old RAC"), but when it comes to Crazy Irrational Statements without a shred of Rational Thought there's no contest. SS is only marginally more credible than All-In. Maybe it is a tie, because I don't even think All-In believes half the crap he himself posts and knows he's a Troll. I think SS is delusional enough to think he is scoring "points" and "winning" the Thread.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Nothing, since that statement is true. "I'll quickly review what I've already posted before. Historically the government has taken in about 19% of GDP in revenue. Currently we are at around 14% in revenue and 24% in spending. It seems pretty clear that a significant portion of the problem is that taxes are too low.The huge majority of the deficit came from just 4 presidents- Reagan, Bush, Bush and Obama. The huge majority of the deficit was caused by tax cuts, military spending and medicaid/medicare spending. Social security did not cause any of the deficit since until now it paid for itself and all other spending is fairly trivial. So let's assign blame if you want-Tax cuts- nearly 100% republicans.Military spending- 90 % republicans. I give democrats some blame because too many corrupt democratic politicians didn't do enough to stop it.Medicare/Medicaid- Equal blame. Both parties did nothing to solve, although Republicans have done much more to prevent a solution that the rest of the civilized world uses.So Republicans get 80% of the blame for the deficit. I don't think you can reasonably interpret the facts to give them less than 70%.Also, keep in mind that Obama's deficit increasing policies towards extending the Bush tax cuts/military spending are strongly opposed by many liberals."Is there any specific part of that that you dispute?

Those aren't facts, they are broad statements. To say that Republicans are "responsible" for 80% of a Deficit isn't even a provable statement. We will sit here all day and dispute who is "responsible" for what, but that isn't going to "prove" responsibility. It is a stupid statement to begin and not at all proven by your "facts" above.So again, what do I win?