Us Online Poker Regulation Since Black Friday Thread

[DiamondDixie 12]

Wednesday night I'm in on a conference call with John Pappas (PPA) let me know if there are any questions you would like asked.

[MaxStPolish 4]

So I know at least KJ and DD are still playing in the US, KJ pretty much throughout this period. What are your thoughts, comfort factors, etc. with playing on these sub tier network(s)??I really don't plan on jumping on board 1) with all the issues still going on domestically and 2) for the same reasons I only played on Stars and Tilt (oops) once upon a time (party prior to UIGEA)...but just curious to hear input from those that are playing anyways.

[SuperJon 175]

I've been playing on the Merge network for awhile now.My comfort level is pretty high. Of course, some of that may be due to the fact that I'm only playing micro stakes, and I haven't attempted any cash outs.I can imagine though that as my BR rises, it's very likely my comfort level will drop. I'm sure KJ will share my sentiments in that it's not even close to being about the money right now. The main reason we kept playing is because we love the game. We love learning and and we love studying. We both probably have somewhat of a blind faith that online poker will be regulated in the US sometime in the near future, and when that happens, we want to make sure that we're on top of our game.

[DiamondDixie 12]

Ditto to what SuperJon said! I've played since 4/16, I went right over to Carbon where I had a little money and deposited immediately on Cake and Bodog. I lost my initial deposits since I was so pissed about BF. I was way too tilted to be trying to play but I learned my lesson, got my head outta my ass and pulled my game back together. 1. I'm not going to let some stupid law keep me from playing a game I worked hard on and love. As long as there is a place to play I will continue to play. 2. The money I'm playing with now was built up from the $100 I won in the Hero freeroll in May. I have almost $2K now and if it gets much above that I'll withdraw some but if we get DOJ'd again and I lose it I can live with it since none of it came out of my own pocket. I won't like it one bit but I can live with it. 3. I feel it's very important to keep working as hard on my game as I can in the event we do get legislation. I want to be in a position to make as much as I can if that happens. As for Merge, they're not Stars and I don't trust them too much. I do trust David with Hero as much as I could trust anyone at this point. I think they will eventually get shut down but I hope it will be awhile at least and maybe legislation will happen soon. One thing is for sure, playing all the damn good regs on Merge has made me work harder on improving my game than I ever would have without BF, so in the long run it might be a bit of a blessing for me personally.

[KingJames 11]

I've been playing on the Merge network for awhile now.My comfort level is pretty high. Of course, some of that may be due to the fact that I'm only playing micro stakes, and I haven't attempted any cash outs.I can imagine though that as my BR rises, it's very likely my comfort level will drop. I'm sure KJ will share my sentiments in that it's not even close to being about the money right now. The main reason we kept playing is because we love the game. We love learning and and we love studying. We both probably have somewhat of a blind faith that online poker will be regulated in the US sometime in the near future, and when that happens, we want to make sure that we're on top of our game.

:D I deposited $100 with the intention that it was gone already.... so if I never see my balance I won't fret. I've run it up nicely but its still funny money in my mindThe software is a lot worse, there are a lot less games (especially tournies) but it's great for this prohibition time...I'm seriously looking to move to Canada (BC) in May for a year or two. If I can find a decent accounting or finance job I'm going for sure; and then grind online and ski up at whistler; lol-land of the free-aments. Jobs, consumer protection (and freedom), tax revenue... such a no brainer but the system is flawed

[DiamondDixie 12]

Just a question for those of you US players who choose not to play online anymore, what is your reasoning? If you'd spend $100 on dinner and a movie why would you not put that same $100 online and continue to play? If you grind it up, great if you grind it up and we get DOJ'd again and you lose what you grind up to you've still kept up your game and got to enjoy playing and in the end your only out your $100 since everything else is won money. I know I'm a total degen and poker fanatic so no way I quit but I just haven't really understood why so many people don't want to play, yet many of you still bet money on sports and other things. Yes the competition is tougher than before and the games are fewer and the software and structures aren't the greatest but I still get in a reasonable number of MTTs and a few sngs. I'm keeping up my ability to multi-table and improving my game due to the increased skill of the field. I'm not criticizing at all here I'm just trying to understand the thinking. And of course to encourage you to play to increase the game volume :-)

[DiamondDixie 12]

The PPA has learned that the U.S. House of Representatives’ Subcommittee for Commerce, Manufacturing, and Trade will hold a hearing on Internet gaming on Tuesday, October 25, 2011. The subcommittee of the House Energy and Commerce Committee will bring forward a variety of witnesses to discuss regulation of Internet gaming and gather information for a future hearing to examine the merits of Rep. Joe Barton’s Online Poker Act of 2011 (H.R. 2366). At the time of this email the witnesses for the hearing are still unknown. The PPA and its lobbying team will continue to meet with members of the subcommittee and their staffs leading up to next week’s hearing. We will be asking PPA members whose U.S. Representative is a member of this committee to contact their member directly before the hearing. Please check the PPA website and your inbox for future announcements about this very important hearing.http://energycommerce.house.gov/subcomms/subcommittees.shtmlIf anyone on the sub-committee is from your area please send them an email asking for their support. There are pre-written letter on the PPA website which you can copy and paste to the sub-committee members. http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/home/

[MaxStPolish 4]

Just a question for those of you US players who choose not to play online anymore, what is your reasoning? If you'd spend $100 on dinner and a movie why would you not put that same $100 online and continue to play? If you grind it up, great if you grind it up and we get DOJ'd again and you lose what you grind up to you've still kept up your game and got to enjoy playing and in the end your only out your $100 since everything else is won money. I know I'm a total degen and poker fanatic so no way I quit but I just haven't really understood why so many people don't want to play, yet many of you still bet money on sports and other things. Yes the competition is tougher than before and the games are fewer and the software and structures aren't the greatest but I still get in a reasonable number of MTTs and a few sngs. I'm keeping up my ability to multi-table and improving my game due to the increased skill of the field. I'm not criticizing at all here I'm just trying to understand the thinking. And of course to encourage you to play to increase the game volume :-)

A lot of answers to this....but the core is that while I play poker for fun, I find the money (or prospect of winning/losing) most fun. I played Party and then FTP/PS when they left via UIEGA for a reason. They were the most reputable sites around with the the largest volume. Then shit hit the fan and 60% of my 'fun money BR' (not all too much of anything, but that's besides the point) disappeared. At the end of the day I know it's not "illegal" to play....but between the gov't drawing a line in the sand (albeit absurd) and seeing the fallout/failure of FTP, I'm not gonna scrape and deposit to a site that I didn't play in the first place for a reason. The notion of "if it gets DOJ'd again....I don't view it the same way. I'd look at it as getting fun money cleaned out.I've got enough stuff in life that have all sort of combined to take chunks of that poker time and put it toward other things. Don't get me wrong, if the game were legislated and legalized tomorrow, I'd have plenty of time to put right back into it without taking too much away from other facets of life....but on the same token, once I got past that original BF heartbreak, life has gone on.If I spend 100 on dinner and a movie, that's what I get. If a drop a buck into merge, I have no confidence about its worth....and I don't want to pay just to get to keep playing. I'll worry about catching back up to the curve if/when it gets legalized. We'll see if that changes as time goes on. For now I'll just play a rare home game and tourney (actually playing WSOP Circuit Event-Limit O/8 tourney tomorrow afternoon!).

[r23y 2]

Do I Love the game of poker? yesDo I miss playing every chance I would get? Yes I play on merge and still have not put money on their. Just still worried what will happenI play the freerolls and will see what happens

[KingJames 11]

For now I'll just play a rare home game and tourney (actually playing WSOP Circuit Event-Limit O/8 tourney tomorrow afternoon!).

zomg win!!!!!!!

[DiamondDixie 12]

Do I Love the game of poker? yesDo I miss playing every chance I would get? Yes I play on merge and still have not put money on their. Just still worried what will happenI play the freerolls and will see what happens

Hero may be re-opening and they are more reliable (only my opinion based on my interactions and the 2p2 interactions with the CEO) and they have a couple of freeroll MTTs and some freeroll PLO sngs and some super micro PLO/HORSE etc MTTs available that the rest of the network doesn't have. These make it a bit easier to grind up a bankroll, so if they are indeed reopened you might want to think about giving them a try.@Max thanks for the reply and I do understand how you feel.

[DiamondDixie 12]

Key points from the conference call with John Pappas tonight:Fairplay USA isnt as "out there" as we would like. PPA has little contact with them -- mostly via their lobbiest.The South Carolina law suit is in Supreme Court and awaiting decisiion (skill vs luck).The Virginia law suit regarding the Port Smith poker room is scheduled for NOV 9, skill vs luck.A hearing on the HR 2366 the Barton bill is scheduled for Oct. 25 in the commerce sub-committee. Fair Play USA's Board members Freeh and Ridge were both invited to participate in hearing next week in D.C. but both will be out of country so they won't be testifiying.Alfonse D'Amato will be testifying. If you have suggestions or questions, contact Rich.Deficit committee still looks like a possibility, although we got a resounding hell no from Kyl.There will be an omnibus bill coming around at some point that could be another vehicle.AGA expects to introduce their own bill soon.John didn't seem concerned about any of the witnesses for the hearing.Things get more difficult after March, 2012. We basically have 6 months to get something passed or we're out of luck for awhile.One really good thing is per John the lobbyist in DC are saying we are being heard! :-) ONE TIME PLEASE!!!

[UncleHoot 0]

A lot of answers to this.... <snip>

Your post is pretty much exactly how I feel (the entire post).Another big thing to me, is that Pokerstars still has over 100K players most of the time. I get on Carbon, and there are 7500 players. During my entire online poker existence (since 2005), I've never been on a site with that few players.

[DiamondDixie 12]

@UncleHoot but but but if you and Max would play there would be 7502 players online! On a more serious note:Trump teaming with big hedge fund manager on online poker room! http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-1...ng-venture.htmlIf the Donald is getting involved there may be hope on the horizon.A couple of the members of the commerce sub-committee have mentioned the HR2366 and internet gaming hearing on their tweets and FB pages. https://www.facebook.com/bonomack/posts/10150422264840664 Mary Bono Mack's post, please like the poker comments and make your own response if you like. I got this comment from another member to my post on his wall, pretty non committal but beats a resounding Hell No!

@Lisa, as a member of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Manufacturing, and Trade I will be participating in an important hearing on the issue set for Tuesday, October 25, 2011, at 10:30 a.m. I look forward to hearing testimony and will keep you informed of my position on the issue. Best wishes, Leonard.

[MaxStPolish 4]

zomg win!!!!!!!

Fail 100/245.I literally floated between 13k and 8k (10k start) for 8 levels, dipping as low 6k....but keeping a steady edge as the blinds raised (at 500/1k at my end).Back to back coolers to end it.AJT4 on a 2 5 T flop, J turn....I check call the K on the river and get scooped by QJ97 for half my stack.So down to 6k. Very next hand...AAK3.T J 2 flop. 4 on turn (last of my chips in on turn).......King on river and guys two pair 2s and 4s scoops up 16k pot.It was nice to play though. This is a great example of the absurdity of the whole situation though. I basically had to take 1.5 days off of work to play this as it started at noon yesterday and was a two day tourney (even getting ko'd on day 1 lateish, I would have been useless to go into office anyways). If online poker is around I can play the same tournament without nearly the imposition, never mind the 2 hours of driving and gas, etc. therein.Edit: what skins do you guys play through? I wouldn't mind getting around even just playing freerolls, etc. perhaps.

[KingJames 11]

Fail 100/245.I literally floated between 13k and 8k (10k start) for 8 levels, dipping as low 6k....but keeping a steady edge as the blinds raised (at 500/1k at my end).Back to back coolers to end it.AJT4 on a 2 5 T flop, J turn....I check call the K on the river and get scooped by QJ97 for half my stack.So down to 6k. Very next hand...AAK3.T J 2 flop. 4 on turn (last of my chips in on turn).......King on river and guys two pair 2s and 4s scoops up 16k pot.It was nice to play though. This is a great example of the absurdity of the whole situation though. I basically had to take 1.5 days off of work to play this as it started at noon yesterday and was a two day tourney (even getting ko'd on day 1 lateish, I would have been useless to go into office anyways). If online poker is around I can play the same tournament without nearly the imposition, never mind the 2 hours of driving and gas, etc. therein.Edit: what skins do you guys play through? I wouldn't mind getting around even just playing freerolls, etc. perhaps.

gfg, tonylock poker ftw

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Good interview with Gambling Law expert I. Nelson Rosehttp://calvinayre.com/2011/10/21/legal/pro...industry-video/

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Editorial From Bloomberg NewsOnline Poker Should Be Dealt a Fresh Hand With Regulation: View

[DiamondDixie 12]

FairPlayUSA from FB: In advance of tomorrow's congressional hearing on online gambling, please tell us why you want to see online poker strictly regulated: http://action.fairplayusa.com/p/sals...111024facebook

[KingJames 11]

So my friends can have their motha effin jobs back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Tuesday’s House Subcommittee on Internet Gaming Preview

[DiamondDixie 12]

Good news today:

“The National District Attorneys Association is encouraged by the efforts of Former Governor Tom Ridge, Judge Louis Freeh and FairPlayUSA to combat illegal internet gambling and create a strong regulatory framework for legal online poker. “In the current environment, law enforcement officials and prosecutors lack the tools necessary to put the illegal offshore sites out of business and protect consumers and children from the operators who engage in illegal activity. As the oldest and largest professional organization representing criminal prosecutors in the world, we are pleased to see a group like FairPlayUSA dedicated to protecting the public and calling on Congress to provide the tools necessary for law enforcement—not financial institutions—to crack down on illegal Internet gambling.”

Fair Play USA is taking a regulate it for protection of consumers and to prevent under age gambling and identify problem gamblers point of view. Which since the PPA's game of skill argument hasn't gotten us very far might be a better angle. You can see all the witness testimony here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost...p;postcount=128More info here and it's supposed to be streamed. It starts at 10:30 am ESTCan we get a one time for tomorrow's hearing!!!

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Online gambling finds support in House

Online gambling finds support in HouseBy Gautham Nagesh - 10/25/11 02:51 PM ET A House subcommittee signaled Tuesday that it will move forward with legislation to legalize some forms of online gambling.Rep. Mary Bono Mack (R-Calif.), chairwoman of the House Energy and Commerce Manufacturing subpanel, said the committee would be deliberate before acting on any legislation. But lawmakers and industry players at a Tuesday hearing on Internet gambling seemed to be in broad agreement that the time has come to let the nation’s casinos, cardrooms and racetracks operate online as a regulated industry.Bono Mack noted that some form of Internet gambling is already legal in every state except Hawaii and Utah. “I learned to play poker, believe it or not, in the Boy Scouts,” said Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas), who introduced legislation this summer that would legalize and regulate online poker. “If you learned something in the Boy Scouts, it has to be a good thing,”Lawmakers at the hearing pointed to statistics that show millions of Americans gamble online, sending as much as $6 billion to illegal offshore gambling sites each year.Several members said regulating and taxing the industry could provide a steady stream of revenue to help close the federal deficit. ARTICLE CONTINUED AT LINK ABOVE

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I was e-mailed the below statement from the AGA about Tuesday's hearings.Below is a statement from Frank J. Fahrenkopf, Jr., president and CEO of the American Gaming Association regarding today’s Commerce, Manufacturing and Trade Subcommittee hearing entitled “Internet Gaming: Is There a Safe Bet?” “Today’s hearing on Internet gambling made it abundantly clear that the “safe bet” is to allow states, following federal guidelines, to license and regulate online poker. Such action would protect U.S. consumers, keep children from gambling on the Internet, and provide the tools law enforcement needs to shut down illegal Internet gambling operators. It would also create new jobs and tax revenue at a time when our country sorely needs both. “Testimony heard today and other testimony presented in writing, such as ours, demonstrates that new technology and processes used in ecommerce have been successfully adapted in jurisdictions where Internet gambling is legal, such as Great Britain, France, Italy and provinces in Canada, to keep minors from betting online and prevent illegal activities, such as money laundering and fraud. “The subcommittee today heard clear evidence that millions of U.S. residents who play online are being put at risk because they are playing illegally with companies that are poorly regulated and, in the vast majority of the cases, outside the reach of U.S. law enforcement. The only way to protect U.S. consumers and ensure that minors aren’t gambling on the Internet is to allow the states to license and regulate the online poker. “We support state licensing and regulation, following federal guidelines, on online poker because it is substantially different than other forms of gaming. First, it is a game that vast numbers of Americans have historically played and that millions of Americans still play. “Second, unlike other forms of Internet gambling, poker is primarily a game of skill. And, poker is played between or among individuals, whereas in other forms of Internet gambling the customer is playing against the “house.” Finally, the support we’ve seen around the country is really focused on online poker and not on other forms of Internet gambling. “We do not support any specific legislation, but there are certain provisions that any change should include:- Each state should have the right to determine whether online poker should be legalized within their jurisdictions. - Federal guidelines should be established that the states must follow to insure a consistent regulatory and legal framework.- U.S. law enforcement should be provided with the ability to go after illegal operators and successfully prosecute them. “We welcomed the hearings today and urge Congress to act to protect the U.S. consumer and ensure that online poker is being provided by law abiding, responsible companies.” For a full copy of Mr. Fahrenkopf’s testimony that was submitted into the record during hearing, visit the AGA website, http://www.americangaming.org/newsroom/spe...se-committee-on.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Former Senator Al D'Amato Carefully Distances Himself From Full Tilt Poker