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feral_cow_icon.gifCows play poker with cow chipsHEM/Bodog NL Hold'em $2.00/$4.00 - 7 playersUTG: $134.00 UTG+1: $354.00 HJ: $844.85 CO: $1,017.10 (Hero)Button: $1,240.10 SB: $378.25 BB: $332.50 Preflop: ($6.00) Hero is CO with :5c:3h (7 players)3 folds, Hero raises to $12.00, Button raises to $32.00, SB folds, BB calls $28.00, Hero calls $20.00Flop: ($98.00) :4h:ts:club: (3 players)BB checks, Hero ?Button is new to Bodog, so don't have too much history with him. He's got a 3bet of 3.3% over 148 hands. This is the third time he'd done this smallish 3bet on me in position. I'd folded the other times (I believe on the flop). He won a big pot against a reg earlier with 22 against 44 on a 42xx2 board. He also slowplayed the nut flush a bit when he flatted A8s in LP against an MP raise, flatted a small donk with the flush draw, hit the turn and smooth called, and then 1/3 potted river. BB is a super donk. Oh, and I guess I might look kind of LAGgy for what it's worth as I recently went on a decent heater.
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gahhhhh, i'm tornit seems like we don't have a read on buttons play in multiway 3b pots so I would say that the standard villain will play rather straight forward, we cool with that assumption?If we bet, we get value from the super donk, and we ensure some money goes in on the flop, which is a positive as the board is suuuuuuper coordinatedBy checking, we might get a bet if villain takes a stab with air. And if he does have teh KK or JJ, he'll check back and we can pot control deep oop ;)And then we can turn a set into a bluff when the Qd hits, and make him fold KKI'm really unsure here, but I'll keep thinking...I'm going to say lead >>>> check but reserve the right to change my vote

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i would assume a new guy to bodog playing in 2-4 is prob a reg from another site and 2-4 is generally aggro for the most part ( and plenty of his 3 bets are probably smacking this board) that i still prefer to check. I mean what are we opening, calling, and leading multiway?

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it seems like we don't have a read on buttons play in multiway 3b pots so I would say that the standard villain will play rather straight forward, we cool with that assumption?
Probably.If we lead, what are we doing facing a button raise? (BB would probably fold...but could also flat or shove.)
I mean what are we opening, calling, and leading multiway?
If anything, probably KJ, sets, and big draws.
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Probably.If we lead, what are we doing facing a button raise? (BB would probably fold...but could also flat or shove.)If anything, probably KJ, sets, and big draws.
Wouldnt people expect that more from c/ring? imo c/ring seems more balanced to me but idk
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If we lead, what are we doing facing a button raise? (BB would probably fold...but could also flat or shove.)
cryingif he only gets it in with combo draws, AKdd, AA, KK and JJ, we're a flip, so weeeee variance
Hold'em Simulation ? 15,840 trials (Exhaustive)board: Ks8dJdHand Equity Wins Ties8c8h 50.85% 8,054 0AA,KK,JJ,AdKd,AdQd,QdTd,KdQd 49.15% 7,786 0
if we remove AA, we're a pretty big dog
Hold'em Simulation ? 9,900 trials (Exhaustive)board: Ks8dJdHand Equity Wins Ties8c8h 28.90% 2,861 0KK,JJ,AdKd,AdQd,QdTd,KdQd 71.10% 7,039 0
So does he have the KQdd and QTdd type hands, does he stack off 250 with AA? big questions itt
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prob should add a few KJ combos... although KJ is a trrbl hand to 3b that deep, rio and such blah blah
In position, it's not so bad to 3-bet.Also, I don't know if he'd stack off with AA, though I would expect him to continue at least a street if he holds AA/AK with the Ad.
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In position, it's not so bad to 3-bet.Also, I don't know if he'd stack off with AA, though I would expect him to continue at least a street if he holds AA/AK with the Ad.
alright, so you lead??? and then what?
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alright, so you lead??? and then what?
Unfortunately, I acted too quickly and did not lead. In contrast to what I think is the best option now, I checked.feral_cow_icon.gifCows play poker with cow chipsHEM/Bodog NL Hold'em $2.00/$4.00 - 7 playersUTG: $134.00 UTG+1: $354.00 HJ: $844.85 CO: $1,017.10 (Hero)Button: $1,240.10 SB: $378.25 BB: $332.50 Preflop: ($6.00) Hero is CO with :5c:3h (7 players)3 folds, Hero raises to $12.00, Button raises to $32.00, SB folds, BB calls $28.00, Hero calls $20.00Flop: ($98.00) :4h:ts:club: (3 players)BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $72.00, BB calls $72.00, Hero ?
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Yes.Since it's a 3bet pot, it's like stacking 100BB in a raised pot
Just for the sake of argument...I think this is the range of hands that button will give us decent action with facing raises...equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 41.671% 41.48% 00.19% 31249459 145877.00 { 8c8h }Hand 1: 58.329% 58.14% 00.19% 43800163 145877.00 { AcAd, AdAh, AdAs, KK, JJ, AdKd, AdQd, AdTd, KdQd, KJs, KdTd, QdTd, Td9d, AcKd, AdKc, AdKh, AdKs, AhKd, AsKd, KJo }
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That range is fairly problematic, but with dead money and generated uncontested wins a check-shove is still fairly profitable.What turns are we going to have to make tough folds on? What turns are going to kill our action? Besides cards 8 and under non-diamond is there a good turn (leaving only 22 good turns)?Do we donk shove good turns? Do we check hoping one of the other two will ship with worse after our scary overcall and risk free cards?I personally ship because the number of turn cards that make our hand impossible to play correctly is simply too high, and I am not confident that we can play in a +EV manner after flatting.

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So you're happy to get in 250bb with the third nuts then?
I would be. This seems like a no-brainer to me, but maybe that's why you're more successful.
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I actually think that donking the flop is the best way to go, though I'm torn between a donk/call and donk/3bet. That said, in the hand, I just called and then started regretting it based on stacks. The turn was the :club:: and checked through (button took a really long time to check), I bet SB's $230 remaining on the :ts: river (with plans to fold to a button raise). Both villains thought for a while and folded.

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I actually think that donking the flop is the best way to go, though I'm torn between a donk/call and donk/3bet. That said, in the hand, I just called and then started regretting it based on stacks. The turn was the :club:: and checked through (button took a really long time to check), I bet SB's $230 remaining on the :ts: river (with plans to fold to a button raise). Both villains thought for a while and folded.
This is why we raise the flop? There was no KK JJ out there and we could have made mad $.
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This is why we raise the flop? There was no KK JJ out there and we could have made mad $.
If they're both folding the river, I'm not sure what we would've made a lot of money from.
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Just for the sake of argument...I think this is the range of hands that button will give us decent action with facing raises...equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 41.671% 41.48% 00.19% 31249459 145877.00 { 8c8h }Hand 1: 58.329% 58.14% 00.19% 43800163 145877.00 { AcAd, AdAh, AdAs, KK, JJ, AdKd, AdQd, AdTd, KdQd, KJs, KdTd, QdTd, Td9d, AcKd, AdKc, AdKh, AdKs, AhKd, AsKd, KJo }
I don't see what you're doing with this range. You're doing a preflop analysis with no board, but limiting the villain to hands with a diamond. When all the money goes in on the flop, the hero is a 2:1 favorite.Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 29,700 games 0.005 secs 5,940,000 games/secBoard: Ks 8d JdDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 64.485% 64.48% 00.00% 19152 0.00 { 8c8h }Hand 1: 35.515% 35.52% 00.00% 10548 0.00 { AcAd, AdAh, AdAs, KK, JJ, AdKd, AdQd, AdTd, KdQd, KJs, KdTd, QdTd, Td9d, AcKd, AdKc, AdKh, AdKs, AhKd, AsKd, KJo }--- 75,341,376 games 0.156 secs 482,957,538 games/secBoard: Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 41.671% 41.48% 00.19% 31249459 145877.00 { 8c8h }Hand 1: 58.329% 58.14% 00.19% 43800163 145877.00 { AcAd, AdAh, AdAs, KK, JJ, AdKd, AdQd, AdTd, KdQd, KJs, KdTd, QdTd, Td9d, AcKd, AdKc, AdKh, AdKs, AhKd, AsKd, KJo }---
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If they're both folding the river, I'm not sure what we would've made a lot of money from.
All the AK hands. All the OESD hands. All the AA hands.QKFlush drawsI mean ... the hands we made money from heavily outnumber the hands we paid off.
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