Sad Saga Of A Small Town

[brvheart 1,752]

but thankfully his sister got through to let us know he was okay in the nick of time.

... so what chance were you guys giving that he was going to be publicly tarred and feathered and then lynched? 80-90%?

[Roll the Bones 74]

I mean, as you write this, you understand that the conclusions you're drawing are totally incorrect, yes? You're just doing it for effect, right? This has nothing to do with the love of Jesus, it's about tradition. These people have been praying for 200 years at graduation, and now a punk wants to change that. It's totally irrelevant what is happening or if it's even illegal. People are upset about their tradition being taken away. Using your extreme leap to the civil rights movement, do you think the KKK actually represents Jesus or the Bible? Seriously?

I mean, as you write this, you understand that the conclusions you're drawing are totally incorrect, yes?

Let's compare. A minority is told to be quiet about his civil rights and accept the bigoted behavior of the majority simply because it is a long standing tradition that they don't want to abandon. Umm, no, pretty sure it's a good analogy.

This has nothing to do with the love of Jesus, it's about tradition.

Yes, they believe because of tradition, not anything rational, I get that. Is it that hard to start a new tradition? Pass out lollipops or something.

[Roll the Bones 74]

... so what chance were you guys giving that he was going to be publicly tarred and feathered and then lynched? 80-90%?

Probably alot higher if he ventures out into this town unescorted and alone. Nice of you to suggest he doesn't take the death threats serious though.

[CaneBrain 95]

I mean, as you write this, you understand that the conclusions you're drawing are totally incorrect, yes? You're just doing it for effect, right? This has nothing to do with the love of Jesus, it's about tradition. These people have been praying for 200 years at graduation, and now a punk wants to change that. It's totally irrelevant what is happening or if it's even illegal. People are upset about their tradition being taken away. Using your extreme leap to the civil rights movement, do you think the KKK actually represents Jesus or the Bible? Seriously?

Oh my hell.Good to know illegality is irrelevant if the Christian faith is involved!While I attend my Econ 101 course, feel free to look into a Constitutional Law class. It might be useful.

[Spademan 94]

Yeah, see, that doesn't phase me. I know all the arguments, and I just don't think Joe Suburbanite praying at school is a big deal. Should the school obey the law? Of course. Would I personally incur the wrath of a entire town to ensure they do? No. That's my only point, really. Other than that most of my interest here is theoretical.

It isn't supposed to phase you, dumbass. If you actually "knew all the arguments" you'd have known that.I was going to address your points individually, but you've gone on and on and have been fractally wrong in this thread. BG-in-this-forum levels of wrong. Too time consuming to address everything you've said that is stupid, unsupported, fallacious, and incongruous with reality. "I know all the arguments". lol.Randy even mentioned a place where every single thing you've spouted in this thread is eviscerated for the nonsense it is. Go through the comment sections, wait for someone to spout the accommodationist bullshit you're putting out in this thread, and see how it is dismantled.Or don't and continue to pretend you know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Oh my hell.Good to know illegality is irrelevant if the Christian faith is involved!While I attend my Econ 101 course, feel free to look into a Constitutional Law class. It might be useful.

Brv was trying to explain why they were upset, not whether they had the right to do what they were doing. I'm not sure I agree with him though.

[Spademan 94]

For the rest of you who are simply saying, "I don't see why a prayer is such a big deal", listen:1. It is a public school event. It is against the law to do so. I think everyone has noted that that much is clear.2. Some people may be "stressed out" by it, some may just be "outraged" at the Christian privilege illegally on display, some may be "creeped out" by it. Imagine, instead, that everyone but 3 people dawned robes, turned the lights down and began chanting in ritualistic monotone while the head speaker revealed a live chicken and went through the motions of ritualistic sacrifice for 3 minutes. This is no fucking different to me. I have literally the same reaction. What the fuck is this superstitious ritual doing being led at a public school, where there are children who don't believe in that fucking nonsense, or that particular brand of nonsense. Why the goddamn is my kid being led in this creepy fucking nonsense?Sacrifice your chickens at home, or at your church... wear your robes and chant to your gods in the streets if you like. But you keep your fucking nonsense out of public schools and other government funded/sanctioned shit. Furthermore, the fucking asshole chick in the practice one (I didn't watch the second one as I didn't want my head to explode) told everyone to stand for the school colors and the pledge... and THEN WENT ON TO GIVE GLORY TO HER YAHWEH... she had everyone stand up, then pulled a bait and switch and fucking forced people to stand for her invisible sky wizard. Fucking bitch. 3. Arguing that "it's no big deal" is fucking offensive and marginalizing. Do you know what else can't be led by public schools? Racism. The argument "well, most of the people there believe it, so you should just sit quietly" directly translates to: If a school in the deep south has a population that, in their private lives, are mostly racist... in your view not only is it no big deal if they have a student go up and speak about the tenets of the KKK and its stance on niggers for 3 minutes, but the 3 black guys and 2 white non-racists should just "sit there quietly... I mean, its not hurting them to hear it". Religion, like racism, is a personal ignorance based on bullshit cultural indoctrination and tribalistic stupidity. I don't give a shit if you don't see your religion, or another persons religion in that way because you are subject to it, or trained to see it as different. Neither of them are allowed to be promoted by a public school, your "belief" on the issue is irrelevant. Fuck you, you deluded-by-the-faux-sanctity-and-reverence-and-"love"-of-religious-privilege asshole. 4. I refused to say the pledge of allegiance my freshman year of high school. I got annoyed having to sit there while all of the other kids went through this odd brainwashing every morning, and was finally so annoyed having to hear "under god" every day that I went to the principle. I brought up the separation of church and state, and told him to shut that shit down.The pledge was dropped the next day without any pomp or circumstance, no newspapers, no ACLU. That's the way this shit should be handled.This death by 1000 cuts thing is fucking unacceptable. Our politicians use god speak, religiots have snuck God onto our money and into our pledge... they are trying, like, fucking WEEKLY to get creationism taught in schools, 10 commandments at courthouses, an explicit "culture war"...They legislate against homosexuals and women and... fucking every non-white, non-christian, non-male. Every single fucking one of these things, in matters related to separation of church and state, to include keeping that nonsense out of even graduation speeches at public schools should be opposed. As fucking vocally as necessary. 1000 small wounds can still bleed you out.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Camping was off by 5 months.

[Spademan 94]

Wow. A lot of grammatical and structural mistakes.I'm pretty livid.Heh.

[brvheart 1,752]

Let's compare. A minority is told to be quiet about his civil rights and accept the bigoted behavior of the majority simply because it is a long standing tradition that they don't want to abandon. Umm, no, pretty sure it's a good analogy.

Randy, it's really crazy that you're still defending this. Blacks were being actively segregated, mocked, beaten, and kill because the majority didn't like them. That punk kid sitting in the audience isn't even being noticed. No one cares what he's thinking or what he believes. He's not being segregated, mocked, beaten or killed. It's silly to suggest multiple times that it's the same thing.

[brvheart 1,752]

Oh my hell.Good to know illegality is irrelevant if the Christian faith is involved!While I attend my Econ 101 course, feel free to look into a Constitutional Law class. It might be useful.

That's not what I was talking about.Also, I know you see me post and immediately disagree with my post without reading it, but on this issue I haven't been on the standard Christian side at all.

[Spademan 94]

Randy, it's really crazy that you're still defending this. Blacks were being actively segregated, mocked, beaten, and kill because the majority didn't like them. That punk kid sitting in the audience isn't even being noticed. No one cares what he's thinking or what he believes. He's not being segregated, mocked, beaten or killed. It's silly to suggest multiple times that it's the same thing.

You fucking idiot. Have you even read the links provided? Have you even fucking looked into it?This "punk kid" (fuck you, you piece of shit) was mocked, segregated, threatened and even kicked out of his families house - his shit thrown on the lawn - by the thugish, frothy-mouthed Christian-cult majority in his town. The fact that these motherfuckers flouted the law and asserted their bully belong-to-our-cult faith at the public school ceremonies is the least of it, asshole. Might as well shut your fucking mouth if you're just going to spout ignorant, dishonest bullshit.You're free to disregard that advice, however, because unlike a public school function you're free to drip whatever stupid shit from your mouth your little heart desires here.

[CaneBrain 95]

That's not what I was talking about.Also, I know you see me post and immediately disagree with my post without reading it, but on this issue I haven't been on the standard Christian side at all.

No, I read it and then was horrified. And your insistence on continuing to call the victim a punk for asserting his Constitutional rights is sad.

[vbnautilus 48]

If you go to church, you are promoting jihad? You have to know how silly that is. When pressed, most religious people know the difference between faith and knowledge. They just choose to shut it off for the social and emotional benefits. Blaming those people for jihad is like blaming heavy metal for school shootings -- the cause and effect are backward.

People commit acts of violence because of the specific religious beliefs that they have. The guys who flew the planes into the buildings believed they were going to be rewarded by the god for doing it. The link between religious belief and acts of crazy violence is not indirect like rock music and columbine. The terrorists were theologically correct.The "moderates" who go around teaching these beliefs, asking people to accept the religious texts as the inerrant word of god are then surprised when someone takes this seriously and actually acts according to what those texts suggest? It is not a defensible position to cultivate religion, encourage people to abandon their reason and accept dogmas, and then dissociate yourself from the consequences of those dogmas when you don't like them.

I still suggest teaching reason and logic in school, and explaining why it is important.

But then celebrating the completion of this education process by singing to an invisible man at graduation? That's absurd. The school cannot be a champion of education and reason while at the same time endorsing superstition and ignorance.

That doesn't mean people should not be allowed to carve out a niche in their life for the irrational. We all do it in some way or another, it's just that religion pushed people's buttons.

No, its just that religion gets celebrated for being irrational rather than being denigrated for it. In other realms when people act irrationally we encourage them to change and help them to realize a different way...think of all the people who have been helped by cognitive behavioral therapy not to have irrational phobias. In religion the more irrational someone behaves the more praise they receive, and this is considered by mainstream society, religious and non-religious alike to be A-OK. I can't think of another domain where that happens.

I think that many people are better off with religion, if only for the social aspect of it. In fact, I would say that is the typical case.

None of the positive community aspect they get from religion requires any of the supernatural or dogma. We can do better.

These people have been praying for 200 years at graduation, and now a punk wants to change that. It's totally irrelevant what is happening or if it's even illegal.

Really brv? Really? It's irrelevant what is happening or if it's even legal? Just because they've been doing it a long time they should be allowed to continue doing it? You don't see what's wrong with that?

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I feel like everybody is talking about different things in this thread.

[vbnautilus 48]

I feel like everybody is talking about different things in this thread.

I thought we were all talking about the kid who protested prayer at his graduation.

[Spademan 94]

I feel like everybody is talking about different things in this thread.

Your feelings are wrong.There is an element condoning, however implicitly, this breach of the separation of the church and state because the religion behind it is correct or at least not-too-bad... and an element lambasting this illegal shit because it is illegal, and the religion behind it is given no privileged quarter because, aside from acting illegally in this case, it is superstitious, divisive, irrational, misogynistic, tribalistic, delusional nonsense.

[Spademan 94]

I thought we were all talking about the kid who protested prayer at his graduation.

He didn't even protest at the graduation. He went directly to the school authorities and asked them to stop it beforehand, as it was unconstitutional.They AGREED, then like the dishonest god-bots they are, they went ahead and did it anyway. To the cheers of the majority cult mob, even."Haha, your constitution can't hold down our GAWD! Take that, you hell-bound niggger! Yeeeeehhhaaaaw, Praise Jebus!"

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Your feelings are wrong.

I'm just saying that I don't think anybody in here would disagree that what this school and town did was super-awful and deserving of severe punishment.

[Roll the Bones 74]

I'm just saying that I don't think anybody in here would disagree that what this school and town did was super-awful and deserving of severe punishment.

Well, they will probably be singing a different tune when the huge as lawsuit raises everyone in town's property taxes to pay for it, which by the way will go to fund scholarships for athiests students to go to college, so I hope it was worth it to get their moment.

[Spademan 94]

I'm just saying that I don't think anybody in here would disagree that what this school and town did was super-awful and deserving of severe punishment.

Then you need to read the thread again.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Well, they will probably be singing a different tune when the huge as lawsuit raises everyone in town's property taxes to pay for it, which by the way will go to fund scholarships for athiests students to go to college, so I hope it was worth it to get their moment.

See what I mean, VB?

[vbnautilus 48]

See what I mean, VB?

.. no?edit: oh (was the quote from randy there originally?)

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

.. no?edit: oh (was the quote from randy there originally?)

No, I added it when I saw that Spade had snuck in before me.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Then you need to read the thread again.

I didn't see anybody defending the school's response to the kid.There was a bunch of discussion on whether the planned short prayer (not the subsequent reactionary prayer) at the beginning was a "big deal."