Easter Quiz

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

[Balloon guy 158]

I've been accused of not supplying facts, by a post empty of facts.And one filled with the straw man of misdirection. The entire post is filled with nothing but snapping fingers crying look here, at least when its not making supposed personal anecdotes of questioning 10 different people to compare results and getting 12 answers ( try it sometimes.)Me thinks thou protesteth too muchBut making the case that muslims who strap bombs 1500 years after their religion was created is EXACTLY the same thing as the original con men who knowingly wrote a false Bible and died refusing to deny it?Those two things are exactly the same thing...if you want to avoid honesty.

[BaseJester 1]

I've been accused of not supplying facts, by a post empty of facts.And one filled with the straw man of misdirection. The entire post is filled with nothing but snapping fingers crying look here, at least when its not making supposed personal anecdotes of questioning 10 different people to compare results and getting 12 answers ( try it sometimes.)Me thinks thou protesteth too muchBut making the case that muslims who strap bombs 1500 years after their religion was created is EXACTLY the same thing as the original con men who knowingly wrote a false Bible and died refusing to deny it?Those two things are exactly the same thing...if you want to avoid honesty.

They aren't exactly the same thing. They are exactly the same in the way that's relevant to your specific argument.Which biblical authors do you think died for their beliefs and what makes you think this?

[Spademan 94]

Thanks go out to BG for providing a short enough post to be useful as a practical exercise for the reader:

I've been accused of not supplying facts, by a post empty of facts.And one filled with the straw man of misdirection. The entire post is filled with nothing but snapping fingers crying look here, at least when its not making supposed personal anecdotes of questioning 10 different people to compare results and getting 12 answers ( try it sometimes.)Me thinks thou protesteth too muchBut making the case that muslims who strap bombs 1500 years after their religion was created is EXACTLY the same thing as the original con men who knowingly wrote a false Bible and died refusing to deny it?Those two things are exactly the same thing...if you want to avoid honesty.

Alright, here we have a much shorter example of the previously deconstructed post. Previously, BG has made the claim that the "problems" in the OP, which were referenced with the verses you can read to verify they are not distorted or taken out of context, are "not problems at all". He has claimed that these "problems" have been "trounced for centuries".Instead of providing any content relating to these alleged refutations we can parse the thread and find literally no counter to these "problems" outside of baldly claiming they are refuted. Now we have this post.Questions:1. In what way has he addressed the "problems" that "have been trounced for centuries"? Has he addressed them at all, let alone provided us the information that "trounces" them? If so, how?2. In what way has he defended any of his implicit claims concerning the authors of the Gospels? Has he defended them at all? If so, how?3. If he has not provided any refutation, or has provided insufficient refutation, what has he been doing otherwise? He has clearly been writing words and responses, what is the content and intent of these words and responses?4. Do you see any fallacious statements in this post? If so, what are the fallacies? 5. Do you see any bald statements? If so, which? How could he have attempted to support them? Which claims would have been a reasonably supported claim if actually supported?This is a short enough post that these questions can be examined and answered, at least to yourself, relatively quickly. Not all of them may apply. Discerning which do apply is another important skill-set when examining an argument with critical thought. One should not throw out scatter-shot accusations of "fallacy" or "bald-statement", rhetorically hoping some of them will stick.

[brvheart 1,752]

So one is left wondering what these "easy answers" are, since he does not provide them despite how easy they are.

Did you see how many points he made? I don't have that kind of time.

[Spademan 94]

Did you see how many points he made? I don't have that kind of time.

Uh huh.Keep waving your hands around instead of providing the "easy answers", because the "easy answers" are, strangely, too time consuming.To put it into the hand movement argument you're utilizing: *facepalm*

[DinkDonk 1]

The only time I come into the religion forum is when I see LG or Spade as the last poster. I find them both very sexy.

[brvheart 1,752]

Uh huh.Keep waving your hands around instead of providing the "easy answers", because the "easy answers" are, strangely, too time consuming.To put it into the hand movement argument you're utilizing: *facepalm*

Are you trying to imply that every single "easy answer" has in common the fact that it is not time consuming? Because I would have to respectfully disagree with you on that point.

[Spademan 94]

Are you trying to imply that every single "easy answer" has in common the fact that it is not time consuming? Because I would have to respectfully disagree with you on that point.

What I mean to imply is that you are implying that every single "easy answer" is time consuming, since you haven't provided a single "easy answer", and your only defense to this glaring omission is "time consuming".What I have explicitly said is that your responses are hand waving and content-free.

[vbnautilus 48]

How is that Encyclopedia of Fallacies coming along?

[Spademan 94]

How is that Encyclopedia of Fallacies coming along?

Conservatively at 39%.

[SuperJon 175]

The only time I come into the religion forum is when I see LG or Spade as the last poster. I find them both very sexy.

Same

[Balloon guy 158]

Uh huh.Keep waving your hands around instead of providing the "easy answers", because the "easy answers" are, strangely, too time consuming.To put it into the hand movement argument you're utilizing: *facepalm*

Here is a good start to discuss the so called contradictions in the GospelsIt explains everything easily...knowing Greek will make it easierIt has been done multiple times in the past, which in the politics section was a good enough reason for you to not supply any data when you pointed out something you disagreed with. But far be it from me to expect you people to not be hypocrites.Knowing that the 4 Gospels were written for different readers gives us an easier understanding of why the focus of each book is slightly different.The correct response you should use would be to imply my Arguing to Authority since CRI is an authority on this stuff and I am sending everyone there.Next try to ignore the link, it will be best while you employ: Spurious Delegitimization of Evidence or CriticismThen you should Deligitimize Criticism and Rebuttal in Advance again. This has been your best tool so far with Brv.The job of Creating a Granfalloon has worked wonderfully for you so no reason to stop using that...plus it gives you that needed smokescreen to avoid actually having any point.Good luck.

[Balloon guy 158]

They aren't exactly the same thing.

Saracasm...it's a common tool to suspect when the meanings are obviously opposite from the words

They are exactly the same in the way that's relevant to your specific argument.

How? I am pointing out that making the claim that a person invented a religion then died penniless and painfully for that religion is different than a person 1500 years removed who believes the religion is 100% correct. So in fact they are not even remotely in the same ball park of being the same thing. One guy believes in his religion, the other guy knows his religion is a lie because he was the inventor of the lie. Explain how that is even remotely the same thing.

Which biblical authors do you think died for their beliefs and what makes you think this?

Most of them, the Roman persecution of Christians under Nero and beyond is an historic fact. John dies by being burned in oil on Patmos is also historical, as is Peter's being crucified upside down.Since we don't know who wrote Hebrews, we can't say all of them. But with the timeframe what it was, I highly suspect that all of them in fact did die horrible deaths.Fox's Book of Matyrs will help you understand the times better.

[SweetDee 0]

At work some guy who claims to be pretty religious was explaining how Easter morning he was just too tired from the night before to make it to the 10 A.M. service, further explaining how 10 was just too early. I was just kind of listening in to the conversation and just bellowed out what was in my head: "Jesus take a back seat!" Quite a few people laughed but I may have embarrassed the poor guy.Incidentally, in my head I was thinking of the Carrie Underwood song "Jesus take the wheel" and was trying to fit backseat in phonetically so I could sing it, and obviously couldn't so I just yelled it out. In all seriousness, 10 A.M. is too early. I should apologize to that guy.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Oh cool. I love historical facts.Tutankhamen (c. 1361-1352 BCE), the son in law of Akhenaten, succeeded his brother Smenkhkare when he was only nine years old. His vizier Ay restored the traditional polytheistic religion, abandoning the monotheistic cult of Aten of Akhenaten, its religious centre at el Amarna and returning to the capital Thebes. By reviving the cult of the state god Amen he strengthened the position of Amen's priesthood. The pharaoh changed his name Tutankhaten, (living image of Aten), to Tutankhamen, (living image of Amen). Poor kid got killed when he was 18. Obviously since these are historical facts the Egyptian polytheistic culture of worshipping Sun Gods is indeed all the factual evidence we need to know enough to take this as a fact and have faith in it. Besides, even though it's much older than the time of Jesus there is much more evidence thanks to the Rosetta Stone and a bunch of heiroglyphics.

[Roll the Bones 74]

David Fitzgerald who did the quiz wrote the book- Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All But anyway, since it is a bit much to expect anyone to address all the questions in the quiz, I will just point out my favorite.2. What supernatural events occurred at his death?d. A mass resurrection of all the Jewish holy men, who crawl out of their graves and appear to many in Jerusalem. Matthew 27:51-5351At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.This is part of the reason they call it Zombie Jesus Day and here is someone trying to make sense of that passage.

Zombie mini-apocalypses must happen often enough in that part of the world that they’re not even worth recording. Come on! No one else even mentions it! I gotta hand it to whoever wrote the book of Matthew for having the foresight to include this enlightening event in the most infallible book ever written. If it hadn’t been for him, we’d only have one zombie stumbling around on Easter Sunday.We’re not given a lot here, so let’s see if I got this straight.Friday.■Jesus yells and dies■An atomic bomb of Jesus Juice rips through Jerusalem, causing an earthquake and a ****ing curtain to be torn. OH. MY. GOD.■Zombies with halos wake up and start scratching at the walls of their damaged tombsSaturday.■Zombies still trying to get out■Those that are out are wreaking havoc en route to Jerusalem■No one can repel zombies because it’s the ****ing SabbathSunday.■Ta-da! Zombie Jesus is back playing hide-and-seek and cooking fish at a campfire■Hordes of zombies, awake since Friday and undoubtedly hungry, finally descend upon JerusalemIt took most of those zombies two days stuck inside their half smashed tombs before they could get out. Two days! While Jesus is out on holiday playing the last level of Doom III, a whole bunch of generally nice undead are stuck inside their graves scratching and moaning and breaking fingernails just trying to get a breath of fresh air. And brains.This couldn’t have gone unnoticed. There have got to be a bunch of freaked out caretakers scared shitless because half their crop is trying to escape through damaged tombs. Did it make any difference that these zombies were holier than others? My guess is no. By the way, how could they even be holy if they haven’t accepted Jesus as their own personal savior? Something is amiss.Back to the point. It’s Friday and you’re a caretaker of one of these graveyards. You’ve got a ton of cleanup to do after the earthquake and to make matters worse, a bunch of smug, holier-than-thou zombies are further damaging your tombs in their escape efforts. What do you do? Shit, they didn’t even have shotguns back then! I, for one, know when to get the hell out of town. I’d high-tail it out of Jerusalem, shrieking like a little girl all the way.But, I have to assume that the general population of Jerusalem was more manly than me. These people get so pissed off at little things like someone having to work on the weekend, that they’ll ****ing throw stones at you UNTIL YOU DIE. No, these people didn’t run. The caretakers are dutifully stuck to their job cleaning up the mess wrought by the explosion of the atomic J-bomb.I don’t know how they’re defending against the zombies. We do know that none of the undead made it to the city until Sunday, so the graveyard workers must have been doing something right. My guess is they were busy throwing rocks like they were correcting a crowd of gays. It probably works pretty well for a while. These Jews have good throwing arms. But it can’t last long. They soon have a little bullshit called Sabbath that they can’t get around.Good, observant Jews can only repel the undead until sundown on Friday night and then they have to twiddle their thumbs for a whole day, praying that the zombies are as holy as they say they are. Holy enough to remember the Sabbath.What happens on Saturday is anyone’s guess. From my experience, the undead don’t have much concept of time. They’ve been underground or in caves for weeks and months, rotting and decomposing. How are they going to know what day it is when they wake up? I don’t want to question their dedication to their religion, but I’m guessing they don’t give a shit about this particular Sabbath. I bet they kept on clawing through the rubble of their broken tombs and digging out of their graves. It’s the caretakers of the graveyards I’m concerned with.It seems they’ve got two options: Do you sit around on Saturday as instructed by the big guy, all the while glancing furtively out the windows across the yard to make sure the undead are still underground? Or do you risk breaking the Sabbath by either repelling zombies or running like hell? I’m assuming, of course, that it is considered work to kill the undead. I have no proof of this. These poor saps are backed into a corner. It’s either death by zombie or death by zealous law abiding Jew. I sympathize with these guys. I really do. Jesus had a bad weekend. These guys lived through hell and couldn’t do anything about it.Again, we’re left with scant information. We’ve only got two verses of absolute truth to deal with, and we’ve got to fill in the blanks. The main fact is this: zombies are slow. We have to calculate the time it took for them to stumble out of their burial sites to the epicenter of Jerusalem on Sunday, where they “appear” to “many” people. We all know what that means. Zombie ****ing apocalypse, man.I suck at this type of calculation, so I’m going to have to rely on divine inspiration. I wouldn’t be writing this shit if God wasn’t speaking to me, now would I? Here’s what happened. A lot of those caretakers took the high road and observed the Sabbath. They died. A few more ran like hell. They died too. The first rule about Sabbath is that you don’t ****ing run on Sabbath. Zombies get a pass. They shuffle.The rest of the caretakers? Those that could tell their story? They climbed trees or roofs on Friday night and sat shivering in the cold until Sabbath was over. Zombies can’t climb trees. A lot of those guys lost family. They must have felt like Noah, who was ridiculed for building a boat when there was no water. They were laughed at for high-tailing it up trees, only to see their mockers overcome by a slow-moving wave of brain-eating zombies. Holy and generally considerate brain-eating zombies, but there you have it.Sunday morning must have revealed a massacre, but it’s overshadowed by Zombie Jesus’ game of hide-and-seek. The passage is so focused on that particular zombie that they completely forget to mention the destruction wrought by the roving gangs of holy undead. Instead, they soften the blow by saying, oh, those brain-devouring hordes were just “appearing to many people.” Such an understatement.We’ll never know the death toll that weekend. We’ll never know what happened to these holy zombies. Did they start their own religion and eventually float into the stratosphere like Zombie Jesus? Did they get wiped out by a bunch of zealots throwing stones? Will they accept Zombie Jesus as their own personal savior so they won’t have to go to hell again? Did they reintegrate into their previous holy life as if nothing had happened, as if such a thing were possible? We’ll never know.This Easter, don’t get caught up in all the hubbub about eggs and crucifixions. Remember those who took a stand against the undead. Those who weren’t afraid to back down from reanimated corpses, except for, well, a short time while they hid in trees. Sometimes you have to fight. Sometimes you have to run. And sometimes, the best thing you can do is to hide your ass from zombies and zealots. It’s about survival, people. Protect yourself from brain-devouring zombies. Especially Jesus.

[vbnautilus 48]

LOL. Nice, Randy.

[timwakefield 68]

The only time I come into the religion forum is when I see LG or Spade as the last poster. I find them both very sexy.

This is yet another logical fallacy. Spademan or LG could have made posts which you have not read but which are also not the most recent post in the religion forum and/or any given thread. I believe it's called a

.Edited to include link.

[BaseJester 1]

Saracasm...it's a common tool to suspect when the meanings are obviously opposite from the words

I didn't miss the sarcasm.

How? I am pointing out that making the claim that a person invented a religion then died penniless and painfully for that religion is different than a person 1500 years removed who believes the religion is 100% correct. So in fact they are not even remotely in the same ball park of being the same thing. One guy believes in his religion, the other guy knows his religion is a lie because he was the inventor of the lie. Explain how that is even remotely the same thing.

You're positing a malicious liar rather than someone who is merely delusional or someone who is consciously lying for a greater good at the expense of literal truth. The bomber example just debunks the idea that a willingness to die for a cause makes that cause right and true. If you accept that, then we can move on from it.

Most of them, the Roman persecution of Christians under Nero and beyond is an historic fact.

With you there.

John dies by being burned in oil on Patmos is also historical, as is Peter's being crucified upside down.

Fuzzier. Do you believe that the same John is the apostle, author of the Gospel, and author of Revelation? An eye-witness to the resurrection?

Since we don't know who wrote Hebrews, we can't say all of them. But with the timeframe what it was, I highly suspect that all of them in fact did die horrible deaths.

How did Paul die? You're taking the authorship of the gospels on faith, are you not?

[Spademan 94]

Here is a good start to discuss the so called contradictions in the GospelsIt explains everything easily...knowing Greek will make it easierIt has been done multiple times in the past, which in the politics section was a good enough reason for you to not supply any data when you pointed out something you disagreed with. But far be it from me to expect you people to not be hypocrites.Knowing that the 4 Gospels were written for different readers gives us an easier understanding of why the focus of each book is slightly different.The correct response you should use would be to imply my Arguing to Authority since CRI is an authority on this stuff and I am sending everyone there.Next try to ignore the link, it will be best while you employ: Spurious Delegitimization of Evidence or CriticismThen you should Deligitimize Criticism and Rebuttal in Advance again. This has been your best tool so far with Brv.The job of Creating a Granfalloon has worked wonderfully for you so no reason to stop using that...plus it gives you that needed smokescreen to avoid actually having any point.Good luck.

Ok. I'm not being flip here, and I am not attempting to subvert your argument here, but I need to ask you a question before I even respond to this post (which I would respond to in the "to the reader" way). I want you to answer me seriously here.Are you trolling? Like, one of the greatest trolls ever? Is this a serious post, and are you really using that as a citation that "explains everything easily", is a scholarly peer-reviewed work, uses even the slightest standard of evidence and reflects objective research into biblical issues and history?Are your italicized phrases a deftly created play on the cargo cult phenomenon:Cargo cult activity in the Pacific region increased significantly during and immediately after World War II, when the residents of these regions observed the Japanese and American combatants bringing in large amounts of material. When the war ended, the military bases closed and the flow of goods and materials ceased. In an attempt to attract further deliveries of goods, followers of the cults engaged in ritualistic practices such as building crude imitation landing strips, aircraft and radio equipment, and mimicking the behaviour that they had observed of the military personnel operating them. - SourceThat is to say, are you trolling an incredibly subtle joke like, "When he describes my fallacies with the terms it brings power to his argument. I shall find (irrelevant) phrases and italicize them and add them to my post, thereby stealing his magic word power!"?PM me if about it if you have to, because if you are trolling, which I strongly suspect given this post, we wouldn't want to out it.

[brvheart 1,752]

Randy, I'm sad that you picked #2. I didn't like that one... too easy.

[Balloon guy 158]

Ok. I'm not being flip here, and I am not attempting to subvert your argument here, but I need to ask you a question before I even respond to this post (which I would respond to in the "to the reader" way). I want you to answer me seriously here.Are you trolling? Like, one of the greatest trolls ever? Is this a serious post, and are you really using that as a citation that "explains everything easily", is a scholarly peer-reviewed work, uses even the slightest standard of evidence and reflects objective research into biblical issues and history?Are your italicized phrases a deftly created play on the cargo cult phenomenon:Cargo cult activity in the Pacific region increased significantly during and immediately after World War II, when the residents of these regions observed the Japanese and American combatants bringing in large amounts of material. When the war ended, the military bases closed and the flow of goods and materials ceased. In an attempt to attract further deliveries of goods, followers of the cults engaged in ritualistic practices such as building crude imitation landing strips, aircraft and radio equipment, and mimicking the behaviour that they had observed of the military personnel operating them. - SourceThat is to say, are you trolling an incredibly subtle joke like, "When he describes my fallacies with the terms it brings power to his argument. I shall find (irrelevant) phrases and italicize them and add them to my post, thereby stealing his magic word power!"?PM me if about it if you have to, because if you are trolling, which I strongly suspect given this post, we wouldn't want to out it.

I actually never troll. That was an assertion made falsely by dutch in the bracket thread.What I do is respond in kind.If you go to the beginning, Randy made unabashed accusations with no scholarly peer-reviewed work. Brv and I responded in kind.You are the one who now holds our posts to higher standards than the OPYou did this by your propaganda debate definitions. Which really did not apply, since the post you were applying these too was never meant to be an exhaustive response, or a dodge for lack of evidence.I clearly pointed out how you also post like we did in the politics section when you discarded one of my posts by stating that 'this has been covered' ibid.I found this propaganda definition site years ago and used it to defeat crow who has left leaving me the clear victor ( #12 Unsupported Claims )So no, I am not trolling.And to be honest I am not playing fair either.Randy has obviously just read a book/found a website with a clear bias and is passing it off as fact. I get his enthusiasm, but as in the last thread he started trying to make Job prove that God was a bad guy, it is just the current trend amongst atheist selling books. I know because now the current trend in apologetic book stores is the rebuttal to these arguments.I am comfortable in my faith, I do not fear questions, but I also do not enjoy reading post by people, like you, who mock and degenerate God for the sole reason of being shocking. Shock and Awe ( George Bush term ) works better when capturing a town then capturing an honest debate.Therefore I do not waste my time being honestly challenging, which is probably wrong of me, and Brv will point it out like the last time I was failing in my duty to 'defend the faith' I have no excuse for being lazy in this, but I took you off ignore a month ago, so I must be a glutton for punishment.I have a dream of finding an atheist web site and trolling it like you guys troll this section by constantly pointing out how they are going to hell etc. But I am not arrogant enough I guess.

[Balloon guy 158]

Oh cool. I love historical facts.Tutankhamen (c. 1361-1352 BCE), the son in law of Akhenaten, succeeded his brother Smenkhkare when he was only nine years old. His vizier Ay restored the traditional polytheistic religion, abandoning the monotheistic cult of Aten of Akhenaten, its religious centre at el Amarna and returning to the capital Thebes. By reviving the cult of the state god Amen he strengthened the position of Amen's priesthood. The pharaoh changed his name Tutankhaten, (living image of Aten), to Tutankhamen, (living image of Amen). Poor kid got killed when he was 18. Obviously since these are historical facts the Egyptian polytheistic culture of worshipping Sun Gods is indeed all the factual evidence we need to know enough to take this as a fact and have faith in it. Besides, even though it's much older than the time of Jesus there is much more evidence thanks to the Rosetta Stone and a bunch of heiroglyphics.

First those 'books' telling this story were written 200 years after the event, by people who benefited by Egypt being a strong nation.2nd, hierolgyphics is open to interpretation, most scholars disagree with the current held translation.c: Nobody was there, were you?And finally Ay was also a known drunk and child molester, good job getting your 'facts' from a drunken child molester.Next, if the only requirement to have faith in something was for someone a long time ago to say it was true, then why are you doubting the Bible?

[Balloon guy 158]

LOL. Nice, Randy.

I can see why you liked that post.It had nothing but a misguided attempt at mocking something for the sole purpose of being a pecker head.Good job finding 'truth' in that kind of writing.