hblask 1 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 A very simple question for union supporters: why are you so afraid of market forces setting your salary like the other 90+% of America? Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 When will the left condemn this culture of violence? I expect Obama, Maddow, Maher, and Olbermann all to make angry statements denouncing this kind of thing any minute now. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 A very simple question for union supporters: why are you so afraid of market forces setting your salary like the other 90+% of America?A very simple question for you Henry.Do you actually think that there is a pure market for CEO salaries or is it possible that there is an "Executive Class" that has used their positions and the use of comparables on the Compensation Committees of Corporations to systematically push up Executive pay at the expense of shareholders and other stakeholders ?The problem is that the market that you are in so much love with in many cases doesn't exist because so many of them aren't efficient and aren't pure like your ideology would like them to be. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Reasonable people can disagree. Just make sure you're doing it with accurate information and an open mind......Among the many things they've lied about, Fox News this morning compared us to the man who shot Arizona's congresswoman multiple times. These people shouldn't be allowed to call themselves journalists, or even reporters. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it's sickening to me.Care to elaborate on the lies. I mean as long as were sharing accurate information and open minds.This is pretty much my issue with the rhetoric and "protest" mentality. Everyone feels great when it is their side shouting the slogans and inflaming emotions. It was the left who originally wanted to link the AZ shooter to political rhetoric. This reliance on protests whenever you have an issue is just going to get more disruptive and potentially dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 When will the left condemn this culture of violence? I expect Obama, Maddow, Maher, and Olbermann all to make angry statements denouncing this kind of thing any minute now.Oh come on...he's clearly being funny. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 It's spreading to Tennessee. "The Senate Education Committee voted along party lines Wednesday to abolish collective bargaining between teachers unions and school boards across the state. The vote was 6-3 for SB113 with all Republicans on the panel voting for the bill and all Democrats against." Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 It's spreading to Tennessee. "The Senate Education Committee voted along party lines Wednesday to abolish collective bargaining between teachers unions and school boards across the state. The vote was 6-3 for SB113 with all Republicans on the panel voting for the bill and all Democrats against."One of the interesting things to me is that there is a large political component to this as well. Unions are large supporters of the Democratic Party and the Rebublicans are so much better at fighting dirty that it's hard not to think that a big motivation for Republican anti-Union actions is to hurt Unions and in turn hurt the Democratic Party in the pocketbook. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Care to elaborate on the lies. I mean as long as were sharing accurate information and open minds.Please keep in mind that I've been playing catch-up since last night, but this is what I've seen so far.- Glenn Beck said we've been organized by the Muslim Brotherhood.- Michelle Malkin called us thugs.- They have told viewers we were rioting- They implied many times that we were very close to being violent- Beck says we are looking to create chaos- They keep saying that we're not willing to pay more for our benefits or accept pay cutsYou get the point, I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 A very simple question for you Henry.Do you actually think that there is a pure market for CEO salaries or is it possible that there is an "Executive Class" that has used their positions and the use of comparables on the Compensation Committees of Corporations to systematically push up Executive pay at the expense of shareholders and other stakeholders ?The problem is that the market that you are in so much love with in many cases doesn't exist because so many of them aren't efficient and aren't pure like your ideology would like them to be.But CEOs don't take money from the public funds, money taken from us by the government. If Nike pays their CEO $25 Billion, I only contribute if I chose to pay their inflated prices for shoes.And the funny thing is that the alternative, a government oversight to stop CEO wage abuse...is what Walker is basically doing by denying collective bargaining. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 The Hitler comparisons are pretty stupid and show the person making them as being a moron.If they really wanted to be accurate they would equate Union busting with current China. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 The New Jews: Public EmployeesWow. I'm guessing these people were the product of Public Education. That makes for a terrible vicious cycle. Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 If they really wanted to be accurate they would equate Union busting with current China.Really? Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Care to elaborate on the lies. I mean as long as were sharing accurate information and open minds.This is pretty much my issue with the rhetoric and "protest" mentality. Everyone feels great when it is their side shouting the slogans and inflaming emotions. It was the left who originally wanted to link the AZ shooter to political rhetoric. This reliance on protests whenever you have an issue is just going to get more disruptive and potentially dangerous.I agree with you, but the protesters are within thier rights. The politicians that left the state however are trying pure and simple to undermine the elections and the democratic process. These people are not holding up to their oaths of office. As far as wide spread violence, I think we are getting close. Not because of this protest which has been mostly peaceful. But consider this. Say this strike, protest works and the governer backs down. So now with huge short fall the coming years what are they going to do to pay for this? Tax the Rich? This will only make up a fraction, and only for a short time, because as is happening in California, New Jersey, productive people and businesses will simply leave the state. Which means even less revenue for the ever expanding benefit bonanza of the Wisconson Public employees union. What now? Well, do as California is already doing, ask the Feds for a bailouy. So now not only has the union caused Wisonson to to go bankrupt but now they want to compete against Californians for the rights to loot the bank accounts of the other states workers. When this starts happening is when the shit hits the fan, and normal people decide to "spit on their hands, run up a black flag and start slashing throats. (Mencken) Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 One of the interesting things to me is that there is a large political component to this as well. Unions are large supporters of the Democratic Party and the Rebublicans are so much better at fighting dirty that it's hard not to think that a big motivation for Republican anti-Union actions is to hurt Unions and in turn hurt the Democratic Party in the pocketbook.When they can avoid campaign finance laws and give $200,000,000.00 to one person's presidential campaign...they should probably be stopped.But you are taking a view based on a left's view of politics; that hurting your opponent is a good thing. I and others look at the future of this kind of union backed spending being forced on the future budgets of our cities and states and see that there is NO WAY we can do this. Chrysler is a perfect example. They have to add $1,800 to EVERY car they sell to pay for benefits to the RETIRED workers. What happened recently? The had to be bailed out by Obama ( which was 99% due to the $200 million bribe he received before this happened )I know of so many stories of firemen and police retiring at 50-55 with full benefits etc expected for the next 25-30 years. These numbers go up and up every year, and more people are collecting.The tax revenue will not sustain these promises now. Unions caused this by getting idiot democrats and spineless republicans to ignore the reality of what they were agreeing too and will only make this worse if we don't stop them.Or you can pretend that we just want to tax the rich so that they suffer, break the unions because we hate workers. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Please keep in mind that I've been playing catch-up since last night, but this is what I've seen so far.- Glenn Beck said we've been organized by the Muslim Brotherhood. Agree, Sounds silly to me.- Michelle Malkin called us thugs. Please don't confuse opinion with Lies. I think you're thugs too. And that you're looking to overthrow normal political dialogue and process.- They have told looters we were rioting They've told looters this? I don't understand. Don't know how much physical damage has been done, but I'll bet millions of $ of economic damage has occured. Including Police and other clean up costs.- They implied many times that we were very close to being violent Again, an opinion and anytime people show up to disrupt and shout there is a very REAL threat of violence. I certainly wouldn't feel safe to go and express my views to these peaceful folks.- Beck says we are looking to create chaos You are.- They keep saying that we're not willing to pay more for our benefits or accept pay cuts Yeah. This is just about collective bargaining "rights".You get the point, I think.I get the point. Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 One of the interesting things to me is that there is a large political component to this as well. Unions are large supporters of the Democratic Party and the blicaRebuns are so much better at fighting dirty that it's hard not to think that a big motivation for Republican anti-Union actions is to hurt Unions and in turn hurt the Democratic Party in the pocketbook.Republican so much better at fighting dirty? That is a flat out stupid, false statement. Alinsky is lefty and his tactics are widely and proudly used by most all of the mainstream democratic candadates and the news media. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 And the funny thing is that the alternative, a government oversight to stop CEO wage abuse...is what Walker is basically doing by denying collective bargaining.wat? Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 The politicians that left the state however are trying pure and simple to undermine the elections and the democratic process. These people are not holding up to their oaths of office....speaking of....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZsOKNfNkfQand, to repost a link in my giant post that I think everyone should watchhttp://host.madison.com/wsj/news/video/htm...1cc4c002e0.html Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Republican so much better at fighting dirty? That is a flat out stupid, false statement. Alinsky is lefty and his tactics are widely and proudly used by most all of the mainstream democratic candadates and the news media.You're taking my fighting dirty in the wrong way. I intended it as a compliment. Republicans are so much smarter at this sort of thing than the Democrats are. Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I get the point. Do you?I don't know why I wrote "looters." I meant "viewers." There are no looters.And we're not looking to create chaos. That is a flat out lie - just because you agree with it, doesn't mean it's not a lie. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Republican so much better at fighting dirty? That is a flat out stupid, false statement. Alinsky is lefty and his tactics are widely and proudly used by most all of the mainstream democratic candadates and the news media.And I'm sure there is no one on the right like that.That sign about public employees being the new Jews makes me want to punch a kitten tho. Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 4 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 You're taking my fighting dirty in the wrong way. I intended it as a compliment. Republicans are so much smarter at this sort of thing than the Democrats are.I agree with this. We tend to adopt ideas that Republicans have already used. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Republican so much better at fighting dirty? That is a flat out stupid, false statement...Yeah. I saw that and decided to ignore it. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 wat?These debates will slow down a lot if we have to stop and explain things to the ... lawyers.Bob tried to make the case that CEOs are not playing by the same rules as everyone else and as a result are getting to loot the store, which is what the collective bargaining rights is / has been doing.I pointed out that the only way to stop what he sees as a great evil (CEO pay scales ) is to do exactly the same thing that the WI gov is doing; take away their power to stack the deck for themselves.If A=B and B=C then A=C Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now