Union Worker Protests In Wi

[Oggmonster 0]

But he ran against a guy that, like Doyle, was an idiot. Hell, I almost voted for Walker and I never vote republican. Unfortunately, the democratic party had gotten weak over the last 6 years. That's likely changing.Understand that this isn't all Madison people protesting. I saw thousands of shirts and signs today of people from Waukesha (republican city near Milwaukee), Green Bay, Eau Claire (near MN), La Crosse, Wausau, etc. This protest was hastily thrown together on Tuesday and has been gaining incredible steam since then. We've done a lot of on-the-fly organizing since then. I never expected anything like this. And it's only going to get larger.

Quoted in today's paper, the union rep in my area (La Crosse) had these doozies. "Ultimately, what we're talking about here is workers' rights. Once they're done with the public sector, they'll come for the private workers as well." "This has nothing to do with balancing the budget, it has everything to do with whittling away the middle class, and ending workers' rights in the state.Which leads me to believe that he is either functionally retarded or, like all union reps I've met in my life, deliberately disingenuous and hyperbolic in order to further his political agenda.

[Balloon guy 158]

lol at the 9 1/2 work month per year. As a teacher I put in well over 2000 hours per year (averaging out to a 40+ hour work week x 50 weeks, figuring in the other 2 weeks as 'paid' vacation.We chose this profession, not for the pay, but to do something we love to do (mostly that, and summers off to spend time with my own kids). That said, the pay is adequate...until recently. Pay cuts (health care increases of 600% over the last 14 months-granted it was really, really low before the increases), and no raises since 2008, and none forthcoming for the foreseeable future.Granted, it would be nice for administrators to be able to get rid of the dead wood. But is this protest about that?As a conservative I am disconcerted about the flack received from the 'right' on this, and it has put me on the side of the unions on this issue.

Well for comparison, my health insurance has a $5,600 deductible per person each year for my wife and I in 2008 and we went from $280 a month to $860 a month now.We had to raise our deductible to $10,600 each. This lowered our monthly payment to $350 a month.I have not received a paycheck for 2 years because work is that slow. Living on savings and credit cardsSo I am not the right person to feel sympathy for anyone dealing with 5%-10% pay cuts with full benefits.But I did go to a fundraiser for a local private school this morning for their annual fundraiser and got the full court slam for needing money. If I had some I would have given some.

[El Guapo 8]

How many times do we have to have this argument? Unions were necessary when we had gross negligence and had horrible situations for child labor. Like many things, unions, across the board, have gotten too much power and unfortunately are not as concerned with the best interests of the employees like they once were.

[Balloon guy 158]

How many times do we have to have this argument? Unions were necessary when we had gross negligence and had horrible situations for child labor. Like many things, unions, across the board, have gotten too much power and unfortunately are not as concerned with the best interests of the employees like they once were.

You just want children to dig coal for $.05 a month while rich people get tax cuts

[slink 1]

So I am not the right person to feel sympathy for anyone dealing with 5%-10% pay cuts with full benefits.

If it was implied that I was looking for sympathy, my bad. I do know that some have it tougher. There will always be those that have it better, and those that have it tougher.Thought we were discussing specific issues about teachers and other public sector employees.And I believe you may be implying that 'full benefits' means that they are paid for, completely by others. I have also worked many years in the private sector with 'full benefits'. Doesn't mean they were free in either case.

[ol'number7 0]

Lol, fine. Much of the state. Whatever.One aspect of this has been sorely under-reported, in my opinion: Yes, 14 democratic state senators walked out. But you know who was with them? 2 republican state senators. I haven't been able to find names yet (granted, I haven't looked hard), but they should be commended for standing up for what they (or the people they represent. hopefully both) believe in, despite the party line.

How are they "Standing Up"? Why aren't they on the airwaves supporting the protesters? I don't get it, forgive me for being naive, but let us know why Dems aren't all over this supporting the protesters...

[Balloon guy 158]

If it was implied that I was looking for sympathy, my bad. I do know that some have it tougher. There will always be those that have it better, and those that have it tougher.

I didn't think you were, I was kind of speaking over your shoulder there.

Thought we were discussing specific issues about teachers and other public sector employees.And I believe you may be implying that 'full benefits' means that they are paid for, completely by others. I have also worked many years in the private sector with 'full benefits'. Doesn't mean they were free in either case.

The point was that health care cost are going up crazy ( probably because of Obama (who was given $200 million by unions to get elected( so you could say this was caused by the unions))) while the revenue of governments has dropped significantly, so to expect that anyone is off limits from feeling the results of the economy...that is my point.Plus teachers get free lunch..SHEPARD'S PIE FOR FREE!????

[Balloon guy 158]

How are they "Standing Up"? Why aren't they on the airwaves supporting the protesters? I don't get it, forgive me for being naive, but let us know why Dems aren't all over this supporting the protesters...

By not going in to work while getting full pay and benefits, they are showing their solidarity.

[BaseJester 1]

Because bad teachers won't work for more money?Or good teachers who care for kids and want to teach won't do it for less?

I'm not sure why teachers are constantly getting this argument when it applies equally well to other people as well.for $important_profession in {Doctor,Nurse,Soldier,Priest, Aircraft Mechanic,Pilot,Civil Engineer,Congressman, etc.}{Do you really want a person to do $important_profession because the money is good? Therefore, we shouldn't pay them well.}

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

... Pay cuts (health care increases of 600% over the last 14 months-granted it was really, really low before the increases), and no raises since 2008, and none forthcoming for the foreseeable future...

This is the way things are working for the rest of us in this economy. Most of us, even in "Corporate America", are being affected like this.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

Thank you BG.Even if this doesn't agree with your politics, we are still a blue state and I can tell you with ....85% certainty, that this is what the majority of Wisconsin wants.

I'm proud of you son even though I totally disagree with you.But your state elected Republicans in a landslide so your 85% can't be correct.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

We chose this profession, not for the pay, but to do something we love to do (mostly that, and summers off to spend time with my own kids). That said, the pay is adequate...until recently. Pay cuts (health care increases of 600% over the last 14 months-granted it was really, really low before the increases), and no raises since 2008, and none forthcoming for the foreseeable future.

Then the vast majority of the country has received the exact same type of pay cut why should teachers be exempt?

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Because smarter people that would normally be working in other occupations would consider teaching instead.

I'm almost positive this is the argument that was being made for doctors in the healthcare thread. If their pay is reduced, less people will look to become doctors.

This is the way things are working for the rest of us in this economy. Most of us, even in "Corporate America", are being affected like this.

Then the vast majority of the country has received the exact same type of pay cut why should teachers be exempt?

Yeah. I mean, I haven't been following this at all, but rising healthcare and no raises seems pretty standard to me.

I can't tell you why people are dressing in gorilla suits. I have no idea what that's about.

This made me laugh.

[brvheart 1,752]

"He [the governor] is basically saying, state workers, which have extremely generous benefit packages relative to their private sector counterparts, they contribute next to nothing to their pensions, very, very little in their health care packages," Ryan responded "He's asking that they contribute about 12% for their health care premiums, which is about half of the private sector average, and about 5.6% to their pensions. It's not asking a lot, it's still about half of what private sector pensions do and health care packages do. So he's basically saying, I want you public workers to pay half of what our private sector counterparts are, and he's getting, you know, riots."

[brvheart 1,752]

How are they "Standing Up"? Why aren't they on the airwaves supporting the protesters? I don't get it, forgive me for being naive, but let us know why Dems aren't all over this supporting the protesters...

Because they want to get re-elected and the majority of the people in WI don't support their cause. At least that's what 20 of Hblask's relatives are saying.

[akoff 0]

My younger brother is a teacher and I have two kids in public school (at least for now) and to be honest our school system where I live is very good and for the most part I am very happy with what I have seen. What I don’t understand is why teachers, only because that is the topic of this particular conversation but it could be any public union, feel they are special. Years ago teachers and government jobs were lower paying then private sector but had better benefits, more time off and generally a mush less stressful work environment. There were choices of money VS lifestyle that you had to make. In the last 15 years our government has sold the taxpayers out, given the unions more then anyone in any profession would or should be able to get and they had no accountability to anyone. The facts are government employees (including teachers) make more money per year then their counter parts in business for the type of work they do. Our business climate has changed drastically in the last 5 years and the only ones who don’t realize it are the government / public unions…hell even most of the private sector unions know that they need to shut the hell up and hang in with the rest of us. continuing with the way things are today it isn't going to be an option and this may shock some people but unions jobs are a very small percentage of the overall work force...and they are going to lose. These people claim to be intelligent hard working folks but yet they refuse to see the obvious…this whole topic only going to get more confrontational and it is going to end as all problems do….with what the money allows. I think the countries debt and coming fiscal crisis will be obvious to all in a few years and these arguments will seem silly. They are going to get clipped hard and it isn’t going to go be pretty. It is my belief that worst is yet to come because we have to start paying the bills...thanks Barak

[loogie 115]

I'm almost positive this is the argument that was being made for doctors in the healthcare thread. If their pay is reduced, less people will look to become doctors.

Good point. There probably needs to be an in-between.

[Balloon guy 158]

In order to maintain my detached aloofness to the issues allowing me to declare my opinion without fear of being tainted by the left or the right I have purposefully not clicked the link on the OP and have only caught bits and pieces on the news.As such I am unaware of what exactly the people are protesting.But I heard on Rush's show that they are mostly upset about two things:1. The increase in their shared payment for their health care from less than 5% to around 12% with the government paying the other 78%, and increasing their retirement contribution to half.2. Something about them not being allowed to change this via strikes ( collective bargaining )Are we really fighting over this? Their requirement to pay less than 15% of their own health care? And half of their own retirement? And then not be allowed to go behind closed doors and get those changes cut back?Whatever happened to JFK's speech; "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"?

[CaneBrain 95]

In order to maintain my detached aloofness to the issues allowing me to declare my opinion without fear of being tainted by the left or the right I have purposefully not clicked the link on the OP and have only caught bits and pieces on the news.As such I am unaware of what exactly the people are protesting.But I heard on Rush's show that they are mostly upset about two things:1. The increase in their shared payment for their health care from less than 5% to around 12% with the government paying the other 78%, and increasing their retirement contribution to half.2. Something about them not being allowed to change this via strikes ( collective bargaining )Are we really fighting over this? Their requirement to pay less than 15% of their own health care? And half of their own retirement? And then not be allowed to go behind closed doors and get those changes cut back?Whatever happened to JFK's speech; "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"?

People fell in love with tax cuts even during war?The idea that losing collective bargaining rights is not a big deal is ridiculous. That's a much bigger blow than the health care increase or the retirement decrease. I love that the idea of a union doing a deal with someone else in good faith behind closed doors is terrible in your world-----but you have no problem with the legislature reducing their benefits and unilaterally taking away any future bargaining power behind close doors. So trustful of government now, you are.

[Balloon guy 158]

People fell in love with tax cuts even during war?The idea that losing collective bargaining rights is not a big deal is ridiculous. That's a much bigger blow than the health care increase or the retirement decrease. I love that the idea of a union doing a deal with someone else in good faith behind closed doors is terrible in your world-----but you have no problem with the legislature reducing their benefits and unilaterally taking away any future bargaining power behind close doors. So trustful of government now, you are.

Only in a liberal utopia of socialism would the right of the worker to quit his job be infringed upon.And I don't get how this can be considered behind closed doors, the legislative process is happening as it does for all bills.The complete collapse of the teacher's unions would be a positive for the country imo, so I am not really perturbed by their losing this part now.In fact the complete outlawing of all government unions would be the absolute best thing this country could do for its future.this doesn't mean they won't get pay etc, it just means they will not get fire-proof jobs without any requirement to perform to a standard, like you me and everyone else that isn't working for the government deals with every single day.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

Just watched the news and heard some of these wonderful people who are teaching our kids say things like "this isn't how a democracy works" and we "should have a say in this." Well this is exactly how a democracy works, you had your say in it, you backed the wrong horse and got you asses kicked. STFU and get back to your jobs.

[slink 1]

This is the way things are working for the rest of us in this economy. Most of us, even in "Corporate America", are being affected like this.

Really? I thought it was just us teachers....My point was that we are being affected like the rest of y'all.

[slink 1]

Then the vast majority of the country has received the exact same type of pay cut why should teachers be exempt?

They shouldn't. All I hear all over and over is how great we have it. Yeah we do enjoy some pretty nice perks, but last I checked nobody prevents anyone from seeking the profession that they want.

[hblask 1]

Really? I thought it was just us teachers....My point was that we are being affected like the rest of y'all.

See, but the rest of us aren't lying to our employers to take the day off to try to use the force of government to do the economically impossible.Do you see the difference? Do you see why you are getting so little support and sympathy except from other people who think they can use force of government to get *their* slice of the pie?

[hblask 1]

They shouldn't. All I hear all over and over is how great we have it. Yeah we do enjoy some pretty nice perks, but last I checked nobody prevents anyone from seeking the profession that they want.

Exactly, and when there are a dozen teachers applying for every opening (except in the really dangerous districts), in free markets that is taken as a sign that pay is too high. In government, apparently, it means pay is not high enough.