Random News Observations

[Fenxis 99]

So he tried to create a law with an EO that everyone knows was a bad law?

 

A. it wasn't an EO, it was a "policy memorandum"

B. if "everyone" knew it was a bad law how did it pass the House of Congress multiple times? Unless 'everyone' is a chunk of Replicans then ok.

[GOCUBSGO 77]

Nope, don't trust you. You've demonstrated nothing but name calling. Why would anyone trust you with a bet?

 

Just know the offer stands. I have plenty of people who will vouch for me.

 

And when you say idiotic things, you get called an idiot. That's just life.

[JustDoIt 10]

A. it wasn't an EO, it was a "policy memorandum"

B. if "everyone" knew it was a bad law how did it pass the House of Congress multiple times? Unless 'everyone' is a chunk of Replicans then ok.

 

B. if "everyone" knew it was a bad law how did it pass the House of Congress multiple times? Unless 'everyone' is a chunk of Replicans then ok.

 

LOL.......multiple times really. Passed by the Democratic House in 2010, end of story.

 

Amazing we would not be having this conversation if Obama had kept his election promises to Hispanics and brought it forward when he was elected. It would

be law today.

[Balloon guy 158]

Reality is politicians are following the wishes of donors who want cheap labor. Both sides are complicit.

 

Short term thinking with huge downsides.

 

Increase labor pool, drive down wages across the board.

 

Increase welfare assistance

 

Increase demands on housing which raises costs.

 

Increase burden on city services like police and fire.

 

Facebook news said kicking out dreamers will result in 600,000 jobs needing to be filled, that is 600,000 Americans who will become employed, 600,000 federal assistance recipients who will get off public dole.

 

America's immigration policy should benefit Americans first.

 

Not a really radical idea.

[GOCUBSGO 77]

Reality is politicians are following the wishes of donors who want cheap labor. Both sides are complicit.

 

Short term thinking with huge downsides.

 

Increase labor pool, drive down wages across the board.

 

Increase welfare assistance

 

Increase demands on housing which raises costs.

 

Increase burden on city services like police and fire.

 

Facebook news said kicking out dreamers will result in 600,000 jobs needing to be filled, that is 600,000 Americans who will become employed, 600,000 federal assistance recipients who will get off public dole.

 

America's immigration policy should benefit Americans first.

 

Not a really radical idea.

 

Except for the glaring fact that your Republican talking points are false.

 

1. Wages are not stagnant due to immigrants adding to the labor pool. They are stagnant due to globalization, automation, the need for people to be re-trained/educated, companies underinvesting in modern tools/technology that would significantly increase productivity, and less of the workforce being represented by labor unions. Absolutely not from immigrants.

 

2. Immigrants commit violent crimes at rates less than people born in the US.

 

3. Undocumented immigrants contribute far more in state and local taxes than they cost in social services. And because many of them do not have savings or investments, they end up spending almost their entire paycheck on goods and services meaning that money is pumped right back into the economy.

 

4. Mass deportations would have a negative impact on our economy's growth. The very bottom of the labor pool may benefit from less immigrants, but the economy as a whole gains far more from a large labor pool than it would from a smaller labor pool / lack of immigrants. Deny it all you want, immigrants add a ton of value to our economy.

 

5. Undocumented immigrants often pay into programs like Social Security and Medicare, but never end up collecting given their undocumented status which further adds to their value.

 

These are facts that have been proven over and over again but you and other Republican parrots can't do anything except regurgitate talking points that are undeniably false.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

The Lump of Labor Fallacy. No immigrants do not take jobs away.

 

Lump of labour fallacy

[Dubey 1,035]

There are lots of generally accepted facts that have for whatever reason become a partisan issue for republicans that they are clearly (to any rational person) on the wrong side of. Climate change, gun control, evolution, illegal immigrants are stealing my job etc...

[FCP Bob 1,312]

always remember that consumers are victims whenever countries use trade protectionism.

 

An “America First” policy on trade with Canada is going to hit Harvey victims hardest

[Balloon guy 158]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/03/la-made-1-3b-in-illegal-immigrant-welfare-payouts-in-just-2-years.html

 

Don't you guys get a little suspicious that massive numbers of poor people flooding a country don't have any negative effects at all according to liberal talking points?

 

Illegal immigrants have a huge disproportionate footprint in prison, but they commit almost no crimes.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/more-than-90-percent-of-foreign-born-federal-prison-inmates-are-illegal-immigrants/article/2621872

 

And illegal immigrants somehow bypass supply and demand laws wrt to labor.

Adding to the low wage labor pool doesn't keep wages low at all...

 

https://www.creators.com/read/thomas-sowell/06/13/economics-vs-need

 

I'll stick with my side's talking points since they line up so much better with reality than yours.

 

I used Fox News for the first link so you can ignore it because facts hurt you so I'm giving you your out. Your welcome. But if you refuse to read the labor link you are a racist

[brvheart 1,752]

The Lump of Labor Fallacy. No immigrants do not take jobs away.

 

Lump of labour fallacy

 

haha. That article says that Automation doesn't cause unemployment. I think I'll jump of BG's "illogical" side of this argument.

[GOCUBSGO 77]

Illegal immigrants have a huge disproportionate footprint in prison, but they commit almost no crimes.

 

http://www.washingto...article/2621872

 

More than 90 percent of foreign-born federal prison inmates are illegal immigrants

 

you mean to tell me that illegal immigrants make up a large percentage of the total number of foreign born inmates in our federal prison?!?! how shocking.

 

These are federal numbers only and exclude the vast majority of people in prison. Anything related to immigration is almost always prosecuted at the federal level, which skews the data since illegal immigrants are way more likely to be sent to federal prison than the average criminal.

 

 

These are the sort of "stats" that Trump, Fox News, and Breitbart push because they can ignore facts and claim huge percentages of people in prison are illegal immigrants. Once you fold in the state/local numbers, the percentages fall to a negligible level.

 

Our side doesn't need to use talking points. We have actual facts on our side.

 

http://www.politifac...hird-federal-i/

[Fenxis 99]

These are the sort of "stats" that Trump, Fox News, and Breitbart push because they can ignore facts and claim huge percentages of people in prison are illegal immigrants. Once you fold in the state/local numbers, the percentages fall to a negligible level.

 

Because it's a lot easier to create a "win" if you create your down reality and define the game, rules and the players. Everyone 'frames' the discussion to some extent so it's nothing new -- but it's going off the charts in politics.

 

We are past the point where we can no longer have meaningful conversations with "other side" about solutions because we are at the point where what we even consider problems are completely different.

[JustDoIt 10]

Love in Florida

 

https://youtu.be/U8SAh9eta6g

[JustDoIt 10]

Well written article on the Democrats history on DACA.

 

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/09/09/democrats-daca-dishonesty-carl-cannon/

[scuudagouch 15]

this is surprising to nobody but those folks on the left who have their heads in the sand.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Really interesting article about what hopefully the future of farming looks like.

 

This Tiny Country Feeds the World

The Netherlands has become an agricultural giant by showing what the future of farming could look like.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Listening to this podcast will make you much smarter.

 

a16z Podcast: Adjusting to Trade… and Innovation

[Balloon guy 158]

Back when there was a nation fear of over population because of a book written called the population explosion, there was a rebuttal book that pointed out that the farm land in India could feed the entire world, and everyone alive could live in a house for 4 in the state of Texas.

 

Farming now is better, in fact it's fine, the problem is distribution, not farming.

[Balloon guy 158]

Every illegal immigrant 'paying into the system' had to commit a felony to do so.

Forging ss numbers is a felony.

 

But it's okay to break some laws?

 

 

[Balloon guy 158]

Hillary book tour is going great.

 

Clinton fatigue is nearing the point even the media is only kissing up at 50%

 

40% off already at major retailers.

 

Hold of a bit and you'll get a signed copy for only $1k any day now.

[GOCUBSGO 77]

Every illegal immigrant 'paying into the system' had to commit a felony to do so.

Forging ss numbers is a felony.

 

But it's okay to break some laws?

 

That's not the argument you were making.

 

If you simply said, I support the ending of DACA and mass deportations of undocumented immigrants because they are breaking the law and everyone should follow the law blah blah blah, then I wouldn't say much to you other than I think the value they add to our economy is more important than the use of a fake SSN to collect a paycheck. Do I actively support the breaking of laws? No, but I also realize that the government can't fight and win every battle. Look at the nightmare that was/is the war on drugs. They need to utilize their resources wisely and in my opinion, mass deportations of a demographic that provide a net gain to our economy isn't a smart use of their time and money.

 

Buuuuut, you are arguing that illegal immigrants take American jobs (they don't), that they are a drain on our social services (they aren't), that they are violent criminals (the numbers disagree), and that our economy would somehow benefit if we kicked them all out (it wouldn't).

 

Protest all you want BG, these are things that have been proven over and over again. Unfortunately, when facts don't back up the narrative you wish to be true, you transform back into a Republican parrot and start right back up with the same old talking points that have no basis in reality (or something something the Clintons).

[Balloon guy 158]

Large immigration of poor people and low wage earners do effect an economy, always have, always will.

 

The reason people on the right and the left want it is for similar reasons, low paid workers make more profits for large companies.

 

H1B visas allow Silicon valley to bring in high wage earners and replace higher wage earner Americans. Why would any government program replace high wage earning Americans unless they were getting donations from these industries that are gaining the benefit of lower pay for same work?

 

Driving the wages down should never be the goal of a government program. Just the concept is antithetical to what a government employee is there for.

 

Poor people have a much higher crime rate, pretty much across the board. People from corrupt countries like Somalia do not change from the magic dirt of the US.

 

Having a system where we look the other way while laws are broken so we can have a small decrease in our cost of lettuce is the beginning of not having a system of laws at all.

 

Illegal immigrants vote 8:1 democrat to republican. Funny that this statistic exist at all since they are not allowed to vote, but someone did the study and found this to be true.

 

Specifically, their analysis of 2008 data from an extensive Harvard/You Gov survey indicates that 7.9 million noncitizens were illegally registered to vote — and 594,000 to 5.7 million did so.

Justfacts

 

So democrats get donations and votes, republicans just get donations. You can see why I'm at odds with the republicans here.

 

As far as my original link regarding prisons, that percentage of federal prisoners 22% reflected a larger population of illegal immigrants in federal prison to their percentage of the population 13.5%. Math is hard.

 

We have an immigration system. If it needs overhauled, then fix it. But allowing people to ignore the law because most of them are good people is naively stupid at best, dangerous at worst. I've asked before; How many Americans is an acceptable number to be murdered, raped, or maimed in a drunk driving by illegals before its too many?

 

Open borders means you do not have a country. And the only argument against open borders is that the country has the right to restrict access to its land.

 

Supreme Court just agreed with Trump's travel ban. What a surprise that the job of protecting the citizens of the country is greater then the feelings of a judge in Hawaii. The clear common sense of this ban was mind bottling that anyone could disagree with it. 7 countries with almost no practical government in place, does not allow for any vetting process to take place, therefore until a vetting process can be implemented, we aren't going to allow people form these countries in.

 

Add to it that these countries are largely hostile to America, and its such a no-brainer that only democrats could be against it.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Please link your source for the quoted claim that non citizens are voting in those numbers since every academic study that I've seen shows the number of those votes to be very very very very very low.

[Balloon guy 158]

First:

 

What have you seen more retorted in the msm?

 

Ted Cruz liked a porn tweet?

Seattle mayor quitting after 5 months of child abuse allegations?

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-mayor-ed-murray-resigns-after-fifth-child-sex-abuse-allegation/?utm_content=buffer5ec8f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=owned_buffer_tw_m

[Balloon guy 158]

Please link your source for the quoted claim that non citizens are voting in those numbers since every academic study that I've seen shows the number of those votes to be very very very very very low.

 

http://www.justfactsdaily.com/politifact-deceptive-report-on-illegal-voting-by-non-citizens/

 

This article links their findings, while defending themselves from the liberal "kill the messenger" deniers.

 

I do place much more faith in a study that has a huge variance since it's almost impossible to verify what criminals are doing since they have to self report.

 

But given that illegal immigrants are fine forging SS cards and Ids to claim benefits, it would be naive to assume they stop their criminal behavior at the voting booth.

 

Trusting that this isn't happening so we have no safe guards in place is just crazy stupid