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Holy shit, this can't be serious. Are you fcking kidding with this? I mean, this is a home, right? Attacked a guy on a sidewalk? You CAN'T be this stupid. Can't be.

 

What would you do if some guy flashed a piece at you? GZ ran up on a dude, got in that kid's shit by asking the kid's business and nnot minding his own, got his ass whipped and resorted to deadly violence.

 

Wow brv, seriously? You think GZ just politely asked what the kid was up to and got attacked?

 

You've made a ton of assumptions that aren't backed up by evidence. That's not how courts work.

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The most interesting thing about the worlds largest beaver dam is that it was discovered via Google Earth and some guy trekked out there to see it IRL and was the first person to ever set foot in that

Beware of overcharging someone. Thats the #1 lesson learned from the Zimmerman case. He was guilty of avoidable behavior that ultimately culminated in a fatality- manslaughter- but he was not guilty

You should've tried to get on the jury and convince the rest that he was not guilty.

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Correct. Only the dead kid and GZ know the real truth. NOBODY else knows.

 

GZ stays in his car and/or minds his own business, none of this happens. He isn't carrying a gun, he probably stays in his car.

 

Whatever. He shouldn't have been convicted based on the case, it's the rest of it, gun laws, vigilante running wild, etc that is sad

 

My scenario was speculation, obviously, but brvy"s two quotes about TM just punching GZ unprovoked is speculation as well

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I know the first thing I do when the police tell me "we don't need you to do that" is doing that exact thing. Are you serious?

 

I guess it's more of an instruction than an order. So he didn't disobey a direct order. He disregarded an instruction. I guess that's not illegal, but it stinks a little.

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To me, disregarding is reckless and they have reckless homicide. (Manslaughter in the second or third degree). Carries a 2-5 year prison sentence usually and I think the jury convicts given they asked specifically for the language on man one. I'm sure they heard the language on man one and decided the state simply didn't prove that much.

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You said that the police told him NOT to do that. That was untrue.

 

Also, he had lost visual contact with him and was trying to reestablish his location when the dispatcher said that, which isn't the definition of following that you are labeling him with.

 

Do you believe that Zimmerman acted responsibly or reasonably? Do you believe Trayvon Martin intended to kill George Zimmerman? Do you believe, if Martin attacked Zimmerman, Martin was tunprovoked? Do you believe that race played a part in the way the investigation was handled? The verdict?

 

Do you believe black on black violence in Chicago is relevant to this discussion?

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Even in the prosecution's version of events, this was never a murder case.

 

 

Whether or not it was manslaughter is dependent on a series of events that happened after the phone call to 911 took place. Unfortunately, nobody except for Zimmerman knows what took place in those few minutes. With no evidence, I don't see how this verdict could have been anything but not guilty.

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And that's why stand your ground laws and hyper aggro self defense laws are inherently flawed. Just kill someone out of sight, claim self defense, walk free.

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Do you believe that Zimmerman acted responsibly or reasonably?

 

Not necessary, and probably not. However, if he just got out of his car to peek around the corner and make sure he could give the coming police officer good directions, then while going back to his car was attacked, then I think he did zero wrong, and acted responsibly AND reasonably. However, I have no idea if this is what actually occurred. The only thing I know for sure, is that he didn't murder anyone, and as Cane has repeated over and over, the prosecuters were retarded.

 

 

Do you believe Trayvon Martin intended to kill George Zimmerman?

 

No idea, but I would guess he just wanted to beat the **** out of him. That's not a fact though, just my opinion. Maybe he was trying to kill him.

 

 

Do you believe, if Martin attacked Zimmerman, Martin was unprovoked?

 

Depends on your definition of unprovoked. If unprovoked includes someone peeking around the corner to see where you are running, then yes, I think it's absolutely possible that he attacked GZ unprovoked.

However, I would guess that 90% of the black community would say calling the cops on someone means they were provoked. So I would say this depends on the definition of the word.

 

Do you believe that race played a part in the way the investigation was handled? The verdict?

 

Maybe. I have no idea. The black lady on the jury obviously didn't think so.

 

Do you believe black on black violence in Chicago is relevant to this discussion?

 

No, unless it's a good reason to post this video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME

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Lol Zimmerman's own defense team stated SYG didn't apply. I still don't think the verdict is terrible but more proof juries are basically a collection of morons.

 

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Your right he could have just walked around all he wanted. Police would have come and checked him out, explain the concerns and everything is cool.

 

I'd love to see the reaction of a young black man when you tell him he should just explain to the police what he's doing and everything will be cool.

 

Brv, you need to go listen to John Amaechi on the LeBatard show yesterday.

 

 

By the way this case was never a stand your ground case.

Matt Bors@MattBors11m

Juror on CNN right now: Zimmerman innocent "because of stand your ground... that's how we got to not guilty."

more proof juries are basically a collection of morons.

 

So sad and terrible.

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I'd love to see the reaction of a young black man when you tell him he should just explain to the police what he's doing and everything will be cool.

 

Brv, you need to go listen to John Amaechi on the LeBatard show yesterday.

 

 

 

 

So sad and terrible.

 

Totally did not say that! Of course he would have to explain why he did not just go home, about a minute away.

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Totally did not say that! Of course he would have to explain why he did not just go home, about a minute away.

 

So he's walking around, the police ask him why he won't go home, and he says, "I don't really feel like it." Then what?

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Calgary jewellery store employee knocks would-be robber out cold with baseball bat

 

 

CALGARY — A baseball bat, a stool and a couple of burly firemen were waiting for some would-be thieves who tried to rob a jewellery store in northwest Calgary.

 

Surveillance video from the store has surfaced on the Internet, showing a pair of young men in hoodies walk into the store with crowbars and start to threaten staff and customers.

 

However, someone behind the counter clocks one of the thieves with a baseball bat and while his buddy tries to drag him out of the store, a customer wielding a stool at the door prevents him from leaving.

 

http://youtu.be/oVmvUC95qt0

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So he's walking around, the police ask him why he won't go home, and he says, "I don't really feel like it." Then what?

 

Ah, were are finally getting there for the second time. The police arrive resolve the call Zimmerman made, explain the purpose of the call (problems with break in's the last few months) and everyone moves on. Problem Solved.

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I'd love to see the reaction of a young black man when you tell him he should just explain to the police what he's doing and everything will be cool.

 

Did you see this Mexico? It's the same thing I said in a different fashion when you called me a racist.

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Brv, you need to go listen to John Amaechi on the LeBatard show yesterday.

 

I listened to it, and I don't disagree with anything he said. I like Amaechi a lot.

 

He also said he would have voted not guilty if he was on the jury, which I appreciated.

 

I definitely believe that Obama is the exception and Trayvon is the rule, although I'm sure I would disagree with him on why that is.

 

 

btw, he tweeted this video, which is just so sad. I feel terrible that black people have to endure this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=M-ckDJ3xTaE

 

I have a feeling that officers would have a rebuttal for possible reasons other than racism, but if it's happening, it doesn't really matter the reason.

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My biggest gripe about the whole self defense law is that it allows someone with a gun to claim self defense over someone without one. Escalation is no good.

 

Even though George got out of his car, the evidence shows that TM was the physical aggressor. So with the case that the prosecution brought to the table, I don't see how the jury could have come up with anything other than "not guilty"

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Did you see this Mexico? It's the same thing I said in a different fashion when you called me a racist.

 

I hate you for making me read all your posts a second time. I'm still not sure what you're talking about.

 

My only point is that black people have to deal with other people, including cops (especially cops?), being nervous around them for no reason. To be suspicious of them. How would you feel if you're walking in your neighborhood and somebody calls the cops on you and you have to wait for the cops to arrive to explain to them that you're walking in your neighborhood and then being told that maybe you should just go home because you're making people nervous?

 

Read this:

 

http://nymag.com/dai...-aint-shit.html

 

 

For me, the interesting thing about this case isn't the legal details, it's the underlying attitudes about what should or shouldn't have happened.

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I hate you for making me read all your posts a second time. I'm still not sure what you're talking about.

 

My only point is that black people have to deal with other people, including cops (especially cops?), being nervous around them for no reason. To be suspicious of them. How would you feel if you're walking in your neighborhood and somebody calls the cops on you and you have to wait for the cops to arrive to explain to them that you're walking in your neighborhood and then being told that maybe you should just go home because you're making people nervous?

 

Read this:

 

http://nymag.com/dai...-aint-shit.html

 

 

For me, the interesting thing about this case isn't the legal details, it's the underlying attitudes about what should or shouldn't have happened.

 

Yeah, all of the "Trayvon could have just gone home" talk is disturbing. People are seriously suggesting that if Martin didn't want to get shot, he should have listened to the white man who just called the police on him.

 

If it had been a 20 year old white woman or a white guy strolling around, does anybody think Zimmerman calls the police? or assumes the other person doesn't belong?

 

Martin was under no obligation to go home. And anybody who says he should have has quite obviously never been in his shoes.

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My biggest gripe about the whole self defense law is that it allows someone with a gun to claim self defense over someone without one. Escalation is no good.

 

Even though George got out of his car, the evidence shows that TM was the physical aggressor. So with the case that the prosecution brought to the table, I don't see how the jury could have come up with anything other than "not guilty"

 

False. The evidence shows Martin was winning the fight. It is completely inconclusive as to who started the fight. Martin being the aggressor is just the version offered by Zimmerman, a man with every motive to lie to save his own ass.

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Inconclusive ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reasonable Doubt

 

That X20 to get from 'reasonable doubt' to 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

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Inconclusive ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reasonable Doubt

 

That X20 to get from 'reasonable doubt' to 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

 

Wat

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btw, he tweeted this video, which is just so sad. I feel terrible that black people have to endure this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=M-ckDJ3xTaE

 

I have a feeling that officers would have a rebuttal for possible reasons other than racism, but if it's happening, it doesn't really matter the reason.

 

The reason is because cops are the people who have to deal with ugly reality on a daily basis.

They don't have the luxury of high-minded idealism.

 

It sucks when you fall into a 'disfavored' group but the guys who are on the ground having to handle the potentially life threatening situations don't have the luxury of 'benefit of the doubt' in some situations.

 

It's one of those nasty realities, kinda like civilian casualties in wartime, where it's easy to sit in front of a computer and judge on the basis of idealism. The people who've seen reality realize that sometimes, the world is just ****ing unfair for totally credible reasons.

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The reason is because cops are the people who have to deal with ugly reality on a daily basis.

They don't have the luxury of high-minded idealism.

 

It sucks when you fall into a 'disfavored' group but the guys who are on the ground having to handle the potentially life threatening situations don't have the luxury of 'benefit of the doubt' in some situations.

 

It's one of those nasty realities, kinda like civilian casualties in wartime, where it's easy to sit in front of a computer and judge on the basis of idealism. The people who've seen reality realize that sometimes, the world is just ****ing unfair for totally credible reasons.

 

The problem with the "that's just the way things are" argument is that you don't know whether that attitude is WHY things are that way.

 

Said another way, It's a pretty transparent form of begging the question, isn't it?

 

 

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