digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=343662 Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I think we have not heard both sides of this. The guy was a formal employee and then started this blog thing, then got funding revoked.We need to hear what happen on the Islander side before judgement can be passed. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 As the great band Extreme once said, there's three sides to every story...the Islanders have banned him yet they won't say why. I think that's fishy. Where is the line drawn? What if Burke started banning guys like Berger and Tessaro? The media is there to report news, not for propaganda purposes. If a guy is blatantly attacking the team then I could see an issue, but I haven't read any such thing. That doesn't mean he hasn't done so, but if he has, then lets talk about it. Why is Garth being so hush hush? Perhaps because it's just a personal issue? Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 If Tessaro got banned, we would blame it on Serge.Hey I understand the Islanders are one crazy organization (Yashin and DiPetro contracts) and I would blame them in a second, but we still need to hear the other side before we pass judgement.I have always been taught to be quiet in situations. No need to fan the flames. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 If Tessaro got banned, we would blame it on Serge.Hey I understand the Islanders are one crazy organization (Yashin and DiPetro contracts) and I would blame them in a second, but we still need to hear the other side before we pass judgement.I have always been taught to be quiet in situations. No need to fan the flames.But how long do you allow the other side to continue to not comment before you begin to form an opinion? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I think we have not heard both sides of this. The guy was a formal employee and then started this blog thing, then got funding revoked.We need to hear what happen on the Islander side before judgement can be passed.It's not that he got his funding revoked, that's not the issue. I think that happened before this season, or at least not at the same time as this scandal.The issue is that (allegedly) the Islanders weren't happy with the content (ie the truth) and completely revoked his press credentials, essentially keeping him from earning a living.I think it's a complete dick move. This isn't some kid who blogs in his basement, he's a professional journalist, and has been for decades.The fact that the Isles aren't saying why they revoked it, after receiving a ton of criticism from everyone, pretty much confirms it, in my mind, that they don't have a legitimate reason, other than Botta simply speaking the truth about the pathetic state of the franchise. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 As the great band Extreme once said, there's three sides to every story...the Islanders have banned him yet they won't say why. I think that's fishy. Where is the line drawn? What if Burke started banning guys like Berger and Tessaro? The media is there to report news, not for propaganda purposes. If a guy is blatantly attacking the team then I could see an issue, but I haven't read any such thing. That doesn't mean he hasn't done so, but if he has, then lets talk about it. Why is Garth being so hush hush? Perhaps because it's just a personal issue?While not knowing all the details, I am all for this obviously....Its their team and they can choose who they give access too...Mckenzie is obviously going to support the writer, he even admits not knowing the details..Pretty irresponsible IMO..I usually support Bobbie Mac but he is out of line here.If a writer is constantly going to trash the team and the organization, let him buy his own ticket and take his credentials away..Maybe guys like Berger(btw conveniently doesnt blog after a Leafs win) will be more responsible. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 While not knowing all the details, I am all for this obviously....Its their team and they can choose who they give access too...Mckenzie is obviously going to support the writer, he even admits not knowing the details..Pretty irresponsible IMO..I usually support Bobbie Mac but he is out of line here.If a writer is constantly going to trash the team and the organization, let him buy his own ticket and take his credentials away..Maybe guys like Berger(btw conveniently doesnt blog after a Leafs win) will be more responsible.I think we disagree on where a journalist's responsibilities lie. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I think we disagree on where a journalist's responsibilities lie.possibly..They dont have to promote the team, but if they are constantly attacking management why are they entitled to a press pass??Once again we dont know all the details...I am not really serious about banning guys like Berger if they post negative stuff..We really dont know what happened in this situation...I just think McKenzie's article is very irresponsible. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I actually also find the McKenzie article irresponsible. He says that a team should not prevent a journalist from having access to the players and team's facilities for any reason. That is wrong. While I'd like to see a team make public the reasons if they are banning someone who is generally respected and 'legit,' that is not their responsibility.If Botta is really an innocent (or close enough) victim in this case, it is up to him to make his case. Show us some transcripts of conversations, make some accusations. If he chooses not to, then I will accept this is a private business exercising their right. The Isles say Botta knows why he was banned, and McKenzie's article does not argue anything in Botta's favour, so I have to assume that Botta does in fact know why he was banned, and does not think he has a platform to argue against it.Note - I realize 10 seconds of research would tell me if Botta is arguing things. For the above, it is irrelevant, since I'm only referring to the incorrect position McKenzie takes, which is that anyone that is a 'real' journalist should not be banned for any reason. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 But how long do you allow the other side to continue to not comment before you begin to form an opinion?Let's hear Gruven take on this.I have always been taught to hear both sides before you pass judgement. Just something ingrain in me now. Now I understand that if someone does stay quiet, whispers will be heard.If the Islanders remains quiet then it will be one sided and if they are fine with that then, I guess we will only know one side of the story. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Well, I agree first of all that there are two sides to every story. A couple of points:-the NYI, while a private business, operate under the auspices of the NHL. And they must adhere to media regulations set out by the NHL. The only place where they have power is to deny Botta access to their PROPERTY, which is the arena and practice pad. The NHL has a series of guidelines for the teams to follow when dealing with the media, and there are fines to the teams for not following the guidelines. (Stuff like the dressing room must be open with 10 minutes of the end of the game, at least one team captain and the starting goaltender must be available for the media post game, etc).-Pulling a credential for being a dick is different from pulling a credential for criticizing the team or violating media guidelines (things like asking for autographs are strictly forbidden). If this was an extension of an argument between Botta and Snow, then I think the Isles are waaaaay out of line. And honestly, this is what it sounds like to me: Snow calls Botta and says 'stop slamming us', Botta says no way, you're management and team are awful, Snow says 'oh ya?', and voila... credential yanked. So I would like to hear more on the story.- It's nothing new for a writer and a team, GM, or player to have a falling out. It actually happens all the time. It's part of the game. But at the end of the day, both sides usually realize how they make their living. I remember a few years ago, Damien Cox wrote a fairly critical story on Darcy Tucker, and how his antics hurt the team. After practice that morning, Damien was in the dressing room (as was I) and Darcy walked by him and called him a name. Damien turned around and said 'Do you wanna talk about it?' Darcy came back and they went nose to nose screaming at each other. Cooler heads pulled the two apart, and Darcy never spoke to Damien again. HOWEVER... Cox wrote later stories about Tucker, and praised him when he deserved it, and criticized him when necessary. Darcy would always politely answer any of Damien's questions in a scrum, but never did a one on one interview with him again. In this case, both parties at the end of the day acted like professionals. Now, if Darcy was Garth Snow, and Damien was Botta, and that's how that played out, there's a problem.-I think the disgruntled employee part of it would be an issue. After being on the inside of an NHL team, being forced to the ropes would be tough to take. If THAT'S why Botta did it, different story again.- At the end of the day, if his columns are justifiable, then he should be able to write what he wants, as long as it's fair. Writers actually have a pretty good sense of whats fair and what isnt (By necessity, most have pretty decent educations and exposure to the real world). Remember Chad Kilger? He left the leafs for personal reasons. Every single person who covered that team knew what happened, but it never came out publicly through the media. We all knew it wasn't fair to write that story. So no one did. THAT'S what gives you the right to be critical of the team when they DO deserve it... Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Remember Chad Kilger? He left the leafs for personal reasons. Every single person who covered that team knew what happened, but it never came out publicly through the media. We all knew it wasn't fair to write that story. So no one did. THAT'S what gives you the write to be critical of the team when they DO deserve it...I don't think I ever heard a final diagnosis on what that whole situation was all about. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I don't think I ever heard a final diagnosis on what that whole situation was all about.Indiscretion with a team employee that resulted in a trade and a firing. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Playboy! Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Your buddy Steve Simmons reported about the rumours that he was linked to a massage therapist who worked for the Leafs:http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnist...929246-sun.html Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Your buddy Steve Simmons reported about the rumours that he was linked to a massage therapist who worked for the Leafs:http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnist...929246-sun.html He's not my buddy, I really dont like him. But the story you linked refers (a year later, so certainly not while he was with the team, or even shortly thereafter, but rather a long time after the fact) to a number of rumoured causes, not just one. And Simmons is careful to say that others had reported those rumours, not that HE was reporting them. Thats kind of a cheap way out, but considering the time lapse, I can accept it. Like I said, everyone knew when it happened what happened, and not one credentialed writer told the story... Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Indiscretion with a team employee that resulted in a trade and a firing.LOL, in searching the web for more on this story I came across an FCP thread where you told me the same thing last year. I have serious ADD issues methinks. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 Apparently Kilger has a better job now...a firefighter in Cornwall. Maybe with some help from his Daddy? Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Apparently Kilger has a better job now...a firefighter in Cornwall. Maybe with some help from his Daddy?Yeah, there was a shitstorm about that... his dad is mayor, or something... Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 edit... beat me to it, haha Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Apparently Kilger has a better job now...a firefighter in Cornwall. Maybe with some help from his Daddy?Direct lift from HFBoards:"Chad Kilger would prefer to run into burning buildings than play for the Florida Panthers...nice organization they've got there". LOL Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Well, I agree first of all that there are two sides to every story. A couple of points:-the NYI, while a private business, operate under the auspices of the NHL. And they must adhere to media regulations set out by the NHL. The only place where they have power is to deny Botta access to their PROPERTY, which is the arena and practice pad. The NHL has a series of guidelines for the teams to follow when dealing with the media, and there are fines to the teams for not following the guidelines. (Stuff like the dressing room must be open with 10 minutes of the end of the game, at least one team captain and the starting goaltender must be available for the media post game, etc).-Pulling a credential for being a dick is different from pulling a credential for criticizing the team or violating media guidelines (things like asking for autographs are strictly forbidden). If this was an extension of an argument between Botta and Snow, then I think the Isles are waaaaay out of line. And honestly, this is what it sounds like to me: Snow calls Botta and says 'stop slamming us', Botta says no way, you're management and team are awful, Snow says 'oh ya?', and voila... credential yanked. So I would like to hear more on the story.- It's nothing new for a writer and a team, GM, or player to have a falling out. It actually happens all the time. It's part of the game. But at the end of the day, both sides usually realize how they make their living. I remember a few years ago, Damien Cox wrote a fairly critical story on Darcy Tucker, and how his antics hurt the team. After practice that morning, Damien was in the dressing room (as was I) and Darcy walked by him and called him a name. Damien turned around and said 'Do you wanna talk about it?' Darcy came back and they went nose to nose screaming at each other. Cooler heads pulled the two apart, and Darcy never spoke to Damien again. HOWEVER... Cox wrote later stories about Tucker, and praised him when he deserved it, and criticized him when necessary. Darcy would always politely answer any of Damien's questions in a scrum, but never did a one on one interview with him again. In this case, both parties at the end of the day acted like professionals. Now, if Darcy was Garth Snow, and Damien was Botta, and that's how that played out, there's a problem.-I think the disgruntled employee part of it would be an issue. After being on the inside of an NHL team, being forced to the ropes would be tough to take. If THAT'S why Botta did it, different story again.- At the end of the day, if his columns are justifiable, then he should be able to write what he wants, as long as it's fair. Writers actually have a pretty good sense of whats fair and what isnt (By necessity, most have pretty decent educations and exposure to the real world). Remember Chad Kilger? He left the leafs for personal reasons. Every single person who covered that team knew what happened, but it never came out publicly through the media. We all knew it wasn't fair to write that story. So no one did. THAT'S what gives you the right to be critical of the team when they DO deserve it...Good points. If McKenzie had written this, I'd have no problem with it.I also think we cannot ignore the possibility that the reason Botta has been banned by the Isles has been escalated. It does make sense that a writer could be banned by his own team as a precursor to being banned by the NHL or the Writer's Association. Nothing that has been reported so far though indicates he has done anything like that.I am disturbed by the advice that there was something somewhat newsworthy that was never reported. I don't see why Kilger's story would not have been reported. If someone gets traded because his wife gets killed by the zamboni, and he can't stand to be near the rink, that is fine. But for 'indiscretions'? Not that anyone cared why Chad Kilger got traded, but I don't see why different standards would apply. If Shayne Corson or Vincent Damphousse got traded for those reasons, I'd want to know. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Direct lift from HFBoards:"Chad Kilger would prefer to run into burning buildings than play for the Florida Panthers...nice organization they've got there". LOLLOL... that's a beauty... His wife told him quit hockey or kiss the kids goodbye.. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 LOL, in searching the web for more on this story I came across an FCP thread where you told me the same thing last year. I have serious ADD issues methinks. Thanks.You're probably joking, but if you suspect as much you should do a little reading. Link to post Share on other sites
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