Roll the Bones 74 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Are we talking about evlotuion or the Bible?Cause the Bible hasn't been changed once that I know of.I mean it's been perfected as new sources of manuscripts have become available to get it as accurate to the original, but in all those 'changes' over the last 1700 years, not once has the message been changed.Errr, wrong. The modern Bible was shaped by mistakes and intentional alterations that were made by early scribes who copied the texts. Words have meanings and those meanings and intents have changed often throughout the ages. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Listen, I know I nitpick, but come on.I quoted the bible passage above in post 235 (though this is not the only one). I don't understand your comment. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Does it?Hmm.And does you belief teach that you live forever if you question things?Theres a sense in which you will live forever and a sense in which you will not. Your questioning of things has no bearing on the truth of this statement, except that it may help you to recognize it as true. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Errr, wrong. The modern Bible was shaped by mistakes and intentional alterations that were made by early scribes who copied the texts. Words have meanings and those meanings and intents have changed often throughout the ages.The atheist movement is made up of pedophiles trying to get laws changed to molest children.I take it this was the place where you get to say anything you want without having to actually prove it? Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I quoted the bible passage above in post 235 (though this is not the only one). I don't understand your comment.Ah, I didn't see that. Goddamn Old Testament, always fucking things up. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Try saying you hate gays.Hate Speech!...which is protected by the First Amendment and is not in any sense illegal, and therefore does not incur any sort of legal punishment. "Hate speech" is entirely legal, and you can even organize and rally and march down the street saying how much you hate fags and niggers and kikes. It's only illegal if you become violent.So I don't know what you're talking about. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Theres a sense in which you will live forever and a sense in which you will not. Your questioning of things has no bearing on the truth of this statement, except that it may help you to recognize it as true.Oh good, you will be able to prove this and that will show how you are consistent with your demand that a person's beliefs are provable with a slide rulers in order to be true. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 ...which is protected by the First Amendment and is not in any sense illegal, and therefore does not incur any sort of legal punishment. "Hate speech" is entirely legal, and you can even organize and rally and march down the street saying how much you hate fags and niggers and kikes. So I don't know what you're talking about.Not really, some speech is more free than others. Link to post Share on other sites
Roll the Bones 74 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 The atheist movement is made up of pedophiles trying to get laws changed to molest children.I take it this was the place where you get to say anything you want without having to actually prove it?I tell you what, you show me the original and we'll compare it to what it says now, along with the meanings you imply it states.Oh wait, you don't have that do you? You can't say for sure there was an "original" can you? It could have been a collection of stories about the Jewish God that was passed down in various versions and collected later. That, by the way, provided a distinct advantage over the Roman's Pagan gods since they weren't into writing things down (scriptures) like the jews, they simply slaughtered some animals to the Gods and called it a day. Another major distinction of the times was that the Romans were polythiests compared to the evolved monotheism of the Jews.But from the book, missquoting Jesus,Ehrman lists a number of theologically important issues which rest upon textually uncertain passages. To quote Ehrman (pp. 207-208): "It would be wrong, however, to say - as people sometimes do - that the changes in our text have no real bearing on what the texts mean or on the theological conclusions that one draws from them. We have seen, in fact, that just the opposite is the case. In some instances, the very meaning is at stake depending on how one resolves a textual problem: Was Jesus an angry man? Was the completely distraught in the face of death? Did he tell his disciples that they could drink poison without being harmed? Did he let an adulteress off the hook with nothing but a mild warning? Is the doctrine of the Trinity explicitly taught in the New Testament? Is Jesus actually called the "unique God" there? Does the New Testament indicate that even the Son of God does not know when the end will come? The questions go on and on, and all of them are related to how one resolves difficulties in the manuscript tradition as it has come down to us."The above are just a few problems. Another interesting problem is whether the doctrine of the atonement is taught in the gospel according to Luke? Further, there are immense textual problems with passages such as the sayings on divorce and remarriage in the gospels (not discussed by Ehrman but addressed in detail in D. C. Parker's - The Living Text of the Gospels) and the Lord's Prayer among others. Therefore, it seems clear that the Gospels are not so well textually preserved as some people would have us imagine and that there exist many variations which have profound effects upon the meaning of texts and theological issues. Link to post Share on other sites
Roll the Bones 74 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Some more analysis of Ehrman's book. Ehrman explains the copying practises of the earliest period and how the texts of the New Testament writings were corrupted as they were copied and recopied. He begins by introducing the diverse writings produced by the early Christians, such as gospels, Acts, apocalypses, Church orders, apologies etc. Briefly, the formation of the canon is also discussed and we are informed about the literacy level among the early Christians. Thereafter we are introduced to the world of the copyists and Ehrman explains how the early scribes copied texts and the problems associated with the copying of texts. It is quite interesting to learn that even pagan critics of Christianity, such as Celsus, were quite aware at an early date that the Christian writings were being corrupted by the scribes and even Origen had to complain about the numerous differences between the gospel manuscripts. Marcion, an early Christian, corrupted the text of certain New Testament writings available to him and Dionysius is quoted who complains that his own writings have been modified just as "the word of the Lord" had been tampered. Marcion, of course, accused other Christians of corrupting the texts. In an earlier writings, "The Orthodox Corruption of Scriptures", Ehrman demonstrated in detail how proto-orthodox Christians corrupted the New Testament writings on occasions. It seems that the early Christians were quite aware that the writings in their possession had underwent corruption and were still being corrupted and they frequently accused each other of tampering with the texts. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 So you don't actually have any examples, you just expect everyone to believe that the Bible has changed and been re-written in order to support your position?Okay, I mean its a free country and stuff.But at least you are willing to use a different conditional proof for the argument Ehrman makes about how he 'knows' the Bible now is not what was originally written, without having any examples to point to except; "Come on, those guys were like sloppy scribes and stuff"Its science like this that supports the entire evolution theory.If 10,000 copies from the first 100 years of the writings of the NT are not adequate to suppose that we have an accurate copy of the original text, then I guess you and Royal Tour are right about the Bible. Link to post Share on other sites
Roll the Bones 74 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 So you don't actually have any examples, you just expect everyone to believe that the Bible has changed and been re-written in order to support your position?Okay, I mean its a free country and stuff.But at least you are willing to use a different conditional proof for the argument Ehrman makes about how he 'knows' the Bible now is not what was originally written, without having any examples to point to except; "Come on, those guys were like sloppy scribes and stuff"Its science like this that supports the entire evolution theory.If 10,000 copies from the first 100 years of the writings of the NT are not adequate to suppose that we have an accurate copy of the original text, then I guess you and Royal Tour are right about the Bible.Well, again, give me the original and we'll compare. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Well, again, give me the original and we'll compare.Here you go:All of them Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Not really, some speech is more free than others.Only as far as social acceptance. It's illegal to incite violence. Other than that, you're free to say whatever you want about how much you hate gays. I mean, look at Westboro Baptist. Our country takes freedom of speech pretty seriously, and it's one of the great things about this country. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Oh good, you will be able to prove this and that will show how you are consistent with your demand that a person's beliefs are provable with a slide rulers in order to be true.I assume I don't need to prove that there is a sense in which you die? It's just the sense in which you don't die that you are interested in? Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I assume I don't need to prove that there is a sense in which you die? It's just the sense in which you don't die that you are interested in?I don't think this means what you think it means. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Only as far as social acceptance. It's illegal to incite violence. Other than that, you're free to say whatever you want about how much you hate gays. I mean, look at Westboro Baptist. Our country takes freedom of speech pretty seriously, and it's one of the great things about this country.If I take a baseball bat and stand outside a voting booth telling all black people they better vote for the old white guy, I will get in more trouble than the black panthers did. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I don't think this means what you think it means.What do I think it means that it doesn't mean? Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If I take a baseball bat and stand outside a voting booth telling all black people they better vote for the old white guyYou will be breaking the law, and I don't know why you would want the freedom to do such an ostensibly violent thing, nor do I get what point you're trying to make. It also seems totally divorced from anything else being discussed in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 You will be breaking the law, and I don't know why you would want the freedom to do such an ostensibly violent thing, nor do I get what point you're trying to make. It also seems totally divorced from anything else being discussed in this thread.I got the reference, that's all that matters to me Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 What do I think it means that it doesn't mean?You know Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The bible days you will be put to death if you say it's wrong. That's pretty clear cut coercion.1) It's not a good idea to use a Catholic website for doctrinal issues. Seriously.2) There is nothing in Christianity that says to put anyone to death.The modern Bible was shaped by mistakes and intentional alterations that were made by early scribes who copied the texts. Words have meanings and those meanings and intents have changed often throughout the ages.Oh my hell. Your brainwashing by freethoughtforums.com is complete. Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 2) There is nothing in Christianity that says to put anyone to death.only the new testament counts argument?Your brainwashing by freethoughtforums.com is complete.come on man. brainwashing? you gonna throw that at someone else? Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 So did nobody get my "bless you" jokes, or was it just not funny? Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 i got it. just didnt seem like it needed comment. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now