Creation Museum

[Balloon guy 158]

Maybe what I wrote came out wrong. It is simply different bantering with you vs Brv. You add a ton of humor and are a blast to banter with, along with being very informed. I missed you actually. When responding to posts I think alot of us respond differently, or at least I do, to you than we would to brv. It's more about how I respond to the posts, and I am much more sarcastic responding to you than I would be to brv and it's hard to go back and forth. In other words I am conscous of hurting his feelings but think you understand the difference. But I would love it if you would jump in and respond to some various posts.

In that case.....Randy, you ignorant slut,

Dear Evangelical Christians:God here.First, I do not exist. The concept of a 13,700,000,000 year old being, capable of creating the entire universe and its billions of galaxies, monitoring simultaneously the thoughts and actions of the 7 billion human beings on this planet is ludicrous. Grow a brain.Second, if I did, I would have left you a book a little more consistent, timeless and independently verifiable than the collection of Iron Age Middle Eastern mythology you call the Bible. Hell, I bet you cannot tell me one thing about any of its authors, their credibility or their possible ulterior motives, yet you cite them for the most extraordinary of claims.Thirdly, when I sent my “son” (whatever that means, given that I am god and do not mate) to Earth, he would have visited the Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, Russians, sub-Saharan Africans, Australian Aboriginals, Mongolians, Polynesians, Micronesians, Indonesians and native Americans, not just a few Jews. He would also have exhibited a knowledge of something outside of the Iron Age Middle East.Fourthly, I would not spend my time hiding, refusing to give any tangible evidence of my existence, and then punish those who are smart enough to draw the natural conclusion that I do not exist by burning them forever. That would make no sense to me, given that I am the one who withheld evidence of my existence in the first place.Fifth, I would not care who you do or how you “do it.” I really wouldn’t. This would be of no interest to me, given that I can create universes. Oh, the egos.Sixth, I would have smited all evangelicals and fundamentalists long before this. You people drive me nuts. You are so small minded and yet you speak with such false authority. Many of you still believe in the talking snake nonsense from Genesis. I would kill all of you for that alone and burn you for an afternoon (burning forever is way too barbaric for me to even contemplate).Seventh, the whole idea of members of one species on one planet surviving their own physical deaths to “be with me” is utter, mind-numbing nonsense. Grow up. You will die. Get over it. I did. Hell, at least you had a life. I never even existed in the first place.Eighth, I do not read your minds, or “hear your prayers” as you euphemistically call it. There are 7 billion of you. Even if only 10% prayed once a day, that is 700,000,000 prayers. This works out at 8,000 prayers a second — every second of every day. Meanwhile I have to process the 100,000 of you who die every day between heaven and hell. Dwell on the sheer absurdity of that for a moment.Finally, the only reason you even consider believing in me is because of where you were born. Had you been born in India, you would likely believe in the Hindu gods, if born in Tibet, you would be a Buddhist. Every culture that has ever existed has had its own god(s) and they always seem to favor that particular culture, its hopes, dreams and prejudices. What, do you think we all exist? If not, why only yours?Look, let’s be honest with ourselves. There is no god. Believing in me was fine when you thought the World was young, flat and simple. Now we know how enormous, old and complex the Universe is.Move on — get over me. I did.God

The notion that a person who has spent considerable effort using feeble logic and 1% of the available information ( which is likely<1% of the actual information ) To come up with this letter shows the depravity of atheism in America.Pretending you can deny and mock God, but then understand who He is, what He thinks, and why He does things shows that any attempt to achieve parity with common sense was abandoned years ago. How about you guys spend 1 minute less thinking up stupid ways to justify your poorly thought conclusions and use that time to brush your tooth and leave the thinking to people better suited to it, namely the Christian community that has founded almost every school of higher education in this country, while you guys have been the parasites inherent in your movement to usurp the good work they were doing.Oh and Little Dickie Dawkins is one of the best you guys got....that alone should tell you to run away from this way of thinking. Just run away.

[BillyPilgrim 1]

Pretending you can deny and mock God, but then understand who He is, what He thinks, and why He does things shows that any attempt to achieve parity with common sense was abandoned years ago. How about you guys spend 1 minute less thinking up stupid ways to justify your poorly thought conclusions and use that time to brush your tooth and leave the thinking to people better suited to it, namely the Christian community that has founded almost every school of higher education in this country, while you guys have been the parasites inherent in your movement to usurp the good work they were doing.Oh and Little Dickie Dawkins is one of the best you guys got....that alone should tell you to run away from this way of thinking. Just run away.

[Roll the Bones 74]

In that case.....Randy, you ignorant slut,The notion that a person who has spent considerable effort using feeble logic and 1% of the available information ( which is likely<1% of the actual information ) To come up with this letter shows the depravity of atheism in America.Pretending you can deny and mock God, but then understand who He is, what He thinks, and why He does things shows that any attempt to achieve parity with common sense was abandoned years ago. How about you guys spend 1 minute less thinking up stupid ways to justify your poorly thought conclusions and use that time to brush your tooth and leave the thinking to people better suited to it, namely the Christian community that has founded almost every school of higher education in this country, while you guys have been the parasites inherent in your movement to usurp the good work they were doing.Oh and Little Dickie Dawkins is one of the best you guys got....that alone should tell you to run away from this way of thinking. Just run away.

Dear BG,You priveledged misogynist pig,Your religous extemism has left you with candidates like Cain, Perry, Bachmann and Gingrich, which makes Sarah Palin the voice of intellectualism in regards to the "best you guys got". All of which proclaim piety when they are not coveting their neighbors asses. If one did pray, it should be that any of them could find an ounce of common sense or empathy for their fellow human beings. You think world renowned biologists are evil yet money scammering religous apocalyptic Christian apologists promoting Crusaders and Dinosaurs as history are to be admired? You're a clueless snake handler preacher wannabe .Love,RTB

[Balloon guy 158]

Dear BG,You priveledged misogynist pig,Your religous extemism has left you with candidates like Cain, Perry, Bachmann and Gingrich, which makes Sarah Palin the voice of intellectualism in regards to the "best you guys got". All of which proclaim piety when they are not coveting their neighbors asses. If one did pray, it should be that any of them could find an ounce of common sense or empathy for their fellow human beings. You think world renowned biologists are evil yet money scammering religous apocalyptic Christian apologists promoting Crusaders and Dinosaurs as history are to be admired? You're a clueless snake handler preacher wannabe .Love,RTB

I give it a 6. It could have been better.I mean mixing in politicians who try to use Christianity as a ratings booster isn't doing your side any favors.But I still liked the effort.BG

[BillyPilgrim 1]

Brvy: Where does your Christianity stand on pre-marital sex? Is it just frowned upon or are we talking a deal breaker?

[brvheart 1,752]

Brvy: Where does your Christianity stand on pre-marital sex? Is it just frowned upon or are we talking a deal breaker?

I have no idea what you mean by "deal-breaker", bu it's definitely sinful, since sex is designed for marriage only. However, it's no better or worse than any other sin.Jesus says somewhere in Matthew - edit: Matthew 5:27 - that "lust" is a sin, which you can't really not have in your heart if you are having sex or masturbating or whatever.On the other hand, you are supposed to lust after your wife, so if you desire to honor Christ, you get married prior to sex.

[BaseJester 1]

Brvy: Where does your Christianity stand on pre-marital sex? Is it just frowned upon or are we talking a deal breaker?

I have no idea what you mean by "deal-breaker", bu it's definitely sinful, since sex is designed for marriage only. However, it's no better or worse than any other sin.Jesus says somewhere in Matthew - edit: Matthew 5:27 - that "lust" is a sin, which you can't really not have in your heart if you are having sex or masturbating or whatever.On the other hand, you are supposed to lust after your wife, so if you desire to honor Christ, you get married prior to sex.

For a lot of people, sex outside of marriage is their favorite sin so much that they aren't really willing to quit doing it.An unmarried sexually active man wants to be a Christian. He wants to socially be a Christian. He wants to socially have a romantic partner or partners. He intends to keep on breaking that rule, and that intent is fairly obvious if he has a live-in partner. So the question is, does God realize this person is full of shit in his repentance and exclude him from grace for it, or is it forgivable to give himself to Christ (except for this one thing, which is really important to him)? The man is trying to amend the contract just a bit. Do you think this is a deal-breaker for God? Should other Christians socially exclude him from their circle? In my humble opinion, there's nothing special theologically about sexual sins (as brvhrt says), but you don't find people hell-bent (so to speak) on taking the Lord's name in vain.

[Balloon guy 158]

1 Corinthians 5:9-139 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

[BillyPilgrim 1]

I have no idea what you mean by "deal-breaker", bu it's definitely sinful, since sex is designed for marriage only. However, it's no better or worse than any other sin.Jesus says somewhere in Matthew - edit: Matthew 5:27 - that "lust" is a sin, which you can't really not have in your heart if you are having sex or masturbating or whatever.On the other hand, you are supposed to lust after your wife, so if you desire to honor Christ, you get married prior to sex.

so even wanting to have sex before marriage is wrong? and i thought jesus put a stop to all those impossible standards.

[brvheart 1,752]

For a lot of people, sex outside of marriage is their favorite sin so much that they aren't really willing to quit doing it.An unmarried sexually active man wants to be a Christian. He wants to socially be a Christian. He wants to socially have a romantic partner or partners. He intends to keep on breaking that rule, and that intent is fairly obvious if he has a live-in partner. So the question is, does God realize this person is full of shit in his repentance and exclude him from grace for it, or is it forgivable to give himself to Christ (except for this one thing, which is really important to him)? The man is trying to amend the contract just a bit. Do you think this is a deal-breaker for God? Should other Christians socially exclude him from their circle? In my humble opinion, there's nothing special theologically about sexual sins (as brvhrt says), but you don't find people hell-bent (so to speak) on taking the Lord's name in vain.

Correct. I think that it would be obvious that that person wasn't serious about following Christ. If you are following Christ you are going to change your lifestyle. I have had TWO different friends who gave their life to Christ only AFTER making a long decision to quit drinking. It wasn't because drinking was bad, but it was because they were alcoholic drunks and knew that they wouldn't be able to not get drunk if they continued to drink. They were "all-in" as it were, and were willing to quit drinking entirely in order to avoid the temptation to get drunk.The answer to the exclusion question is absolutely yes. It's Biblical that if your brother (in Christ) continues to live in sin that you shouldn't associate with him. This is because if you show him that you are complacent with him living in sin, then it will not only infect you and your family, but it will look very hypocritical to the outside world. We are supposed to hate sin, so how can we willingly ignore it? I can find verse on it, if you need me to.This is one of the main issues that "real" Christians have with other detonations, like Catholics or Episcopalians or whatever. Catholics have almost no issue with being drunk or with living with a girlfriend. I have witnessed a Catholic priest telling a guy that he should move in with his girlfriend so that he knows so sure that they were a match. And yet they are staunchly anti-birth control... WHICH ISN'T EVEN IN THE BIBLE. It's ridiculous. Most pastors I know will refuse to marry two "Christians" that are living together. My kids know that the only "curse" word that gives them a spank is saying "God" "oh my God" or "Jesus. Anything else is just a talk. (I don't think any of them have ever cussed). HOWEVER, the "taking God's name in vain thing" is OT and not repeated in the NT, therefore, I think you could make a case that it's not a sin. I however, am teaching my kids to be extremely respectful of God, since I think he deserves it.

so even wanting to have sex before marriage is wrong? and i thought jesus put a stop to all those impossible standards.

I'm trying to be patient with you SA, I really am... but we have been over this ad nauseam, and you are so hateful of religion in general, that it's really affecting your mental abilities in this area. The entire point of him saying that was to reinforce the impossibility of us saving ourselves. In the face of the impossible, the only option is turning to Christ.Again, Jesus didn't "change" any of the standards. God standards are exactly the same. The justification of our sins is what changed. We no longer have to know and understand all the rules perfectly. We just have to have a heart to follow Christ and we can let Him take care of all that stuff.

[brvheart 1,752]

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

This is exactly why I'm so different than most conservatives politically. The far majority of conservatives want to ban gay marriage, but I don't have any idea why. It's really stupid. Abortion, I view as baby murder, so I will be against it until I die, but gay marriage? It's not my business.

[BillyPilgrim 1]

Be patient with me, Brvy...

I'm trying to be patient with you SA, I really am...

Hey thanks.

Correct. I think that it would be obvious that that person wasn't serious about following Christ. If you are following Christ you are going to change your lifestyle.

But this right here is where you keep losing me. Do you have to follow christ or is it just belief in him being the way to salvation? Because to me, following someone requires action - requires living a certain way, not just believing something. You say they wouldnt act that way if they really believed in salvation through jesus and I say they can believe that and still have sex before marriage.

[Dread Aidan 8]

Do you have to follow christ or is it just belief in him being the way to salvation? Because to me, following someone requires action - requires living a certain way, not just believing something.

You just have to believe for salvation. If you do believe, your actions will necessarily follow. It doesn't mean that you will be perfect obviously, but you will try. You keep trying to make it one or the other when it's really one first then the other comes with it.

You say they wouldnt act that way if they really believed in salvation through jesus and I say they can believe that and still have sex before marriage.

They can have sex before marriage, but they'll feel guilty about it. Also, I bet there are plenty of people around here who wish that pre-marital sex was a given. Maybe you should shift the conversation to masturbation; that's something we know everybody is doing.

[BillyPilgrim 1]

You just have to believe for salvation. If you do believe, your actions will necessarily follow. It doesn't mean that you will be perfect obviously, but you will try.

so you can believe in jesus being salvation and still be what i would consider a bad person. the guy who drank and cheated on his wife for years, hit her when he she would talk back - he gets into heaven if he accepts jesus and feels bad, but me, i dont get it in because i dont believe in what cannot be proven. that's my problem with this point of view. it makes devotion to an idea more important than being a good person.

[Dread Aidan 8]

it makes devotion to an idea more important than being a good person.

What would your standard of a "good person" be? Do you set the good acts on one side and the bad acts on another and see which side tips the scales? Do you only weigh the bad acts and if it crosses some line, then you're out? Or maybe you only weigh the good acts until you cross that particular line of having done enough good? I imagine that if any one of our lives were reviewed in detail and all the "bad" acts were listed out, we'd probably be mortified. I think the point of the Biblical story is that nobody is a good person.

[BaseJester 1]

My kids know that the only "curse" word that gives them a spank is saying "God" "oh my God" or "Jesus. Anything else is just a talk. (I don't think any of them have ever cussed). HOWEVER, the "taking God's name in vain thing" is OT and not repeated in the NT, therefore, I think you could make a case that it's not a sin. I however, am teaching my kids to be extremely respectful of God, since I think he deserves it.

Jesus does indeed confirm and amplify this commandment in the New Testament. So, good job.

33 “Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.’ 34 But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING. 36 Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.

[brvheart 1,752]

I imagine that if any one of our lives were reviewed in detail and all the "bad" acts were listed out, we'd probably be mortified. I think the point of the Biblical story is that nobody is a good person.

All correct.Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[speedz99 145]

The answer to the exclusion question is absolutely yes. It's Biblical that if your brother (in Christ) continues to live in sin that you shouldn't associate with him. This is because if you show him that you are complacent with him living in sin, then it will not only infect you and your family, but it will look very hypocritical to the outside world. We are supposed to hate sin, so how can we willingly ignore it? I can find verse on it, if you need me to.

You don't follow that, do you?

My kids know that the only "curse" word that gives them a spank is saying "God" "oh my God" or "Jesus. Anything else is just a talk. (I don't think any of them have ever cussed). HOWEVER, the "taking God's name in vain thing" is OT and not repeated in the NT, therefore, I think you could make a case that it's not a sin. I however, am teaching my kids to be extremely respectful of God, since I think he deserves it.

So if I'm having a conversation with your son, and I'm like, "I think religion is kind of silly," and he rolls his eyes and is all like, "Oh my god," you'd spank him?

[BillyPilgrim 1]

What would your standard of a "good person" be? Do you set the good acts on one side and the bad acts on another and see which side tips the scales? Do you only weigh the bad acts and if it crosses some line, then you're out? Or maybe you only weigh the good acts until you cross that particular line of having done enough good?

I dont know. I think there are certain things that if done disqualifiy you from being a "good person" (murder, rape, being a red sox fan). But I do know that a book written thousands of years ago isnt a very good option for figuring it out.

I think the point of the Biblical story is that nobody is a good person.

But this is stupid. There absolutely are "good" people, both religious ones and athiests.

[brvheart 1,752]

You don't follow that, do you?

Yes. However, the situation* you are referring to is very very rare in my church or any church I would attend. The people that go to my church actually care about sin.*That is... outward, public, ongoing, unrepentant sin.

So if I'm having a conversation with your son, and I'm like, "I think religion is kind of silly," and he rolls his eyes and is all like, "Oh my god," you'd spank him?

He wouldn't say that because of past discipline. If any of my kids ever said that, then everyone else in the family would be very surprised. However, I would love you to have that conversation with any of my kids, as I would be very interested in seeing where they would take it. I would hope that their initial response would be, "I agree. Religion is pretty terrible."However, if what you are specifically getting at is mentioning "God" in the context of a religious discussion, then no, they wouldn't be in trouble. But if in the religious discussion they were flippantly using the name "god" as a throwaway, like "oh my god", then I would be pretty disappointed. My kids know how important it is to respect the creator of the universe.

[BillyPilgrim 1]

do you have any qualms about forcing your beliefs on your children? dont you want them to make up their own minds about jesus?

[brvheart 1,752]

do you have any qualms about forcing your beliefs on your children? dont you want them to make up their own minds about jesus?

Of course I don't. Why would I not want to tell the people I love the most about Jesus? That would be crazy to keep that a secret. I have no problem talking about it with my friends, so how much more do I care about the salvation of my children? However, I can't save my kids. They have to make up their own minds. For instance, I think being baptized is an important step in following Christ, since he told us to be baptized. My oldest son has come to me to tell me that he wants to be baptized but is very scared to get up in front of the whole church. I told him that the decision is his, but the entire point of being baptized is to public profess unashamedly that he is a believer in Christ, so if he isn't ready to do that, then he should just wait until he is. I would never even consider forcing my kids to be baptized.

[Dread Aidan 8]

[BillyPilgrim 1]

They have to make up their own minds.

how can they do that if the most influential people in their lives dominate their young minds with the "truth" of god's existence, and furthermore, that your view of god is the only acceptable one?you must see that you're programming them to think as you want them too, and not for themselves.

[Dread Aidan 8]

Mrs. Essay: Junior, stop! Don't touch that pot of boiling water!Essay: No no, honey, he needs to figure that out on his own.Edit: For some reason I'm picturing Mrs. Essay as a 1950's style homemaker.