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You can only prove this by showing where the current versions are wrong.You keep making nice comfortable broad brush statements about how the Bible is so easily disproven, yet you refuse to list some examples of these major tenets that are in limbo.The rest of the scholarly world looks at the differences and work on finding the most accurate translations. You guys look at two different manuscripts and pretend that the one written in Latin ( a hard language to translate into English and has many examples of corruption in regional areas which are easy to pin down ) is to be granted equal status to a version 500 years earlier that is supported by thousands of corroborating texts.If your goal is to cast dispersions, you have approached it correctly.If you want to find truth, your approach is seriously flawed.
Humans are terribly susceptible to confirmation bias and all sorts of other fallacies. We don’t just look for information that agrees with what we already believe, but we subconsciously ignore information that shows we’re wrong. I've always been the kind of person that questions everything, and when someone offers me a bit of information, the most important question I think I can ask is, “How do you know that?“ I guess I am not satisified with just having an answer, I want the "right" answer. I am also perfectly fine with saying, "I don't know" to things I don't. You seem to think my approach is wrong because I don't believe the accepted dogma on the issue from a Christian apologists aspersions that the 50 or so divisive issues aren't important. Well, umm, to me they are. I am skeptical about those issues. To say they aren't important and then tell me that I should live my life by someone's guess as to what was meant, it becomes very important. When you couple this with the other historical inaccuracies and dozens of scientific impossibilities it becomes more and more ridiculous to not question it's "divine" words.And again, if we actually looked past all those immense problems and blindly decided to accept it as a the best source for moral guidance, it falls extremely short, once again. So, I agree with you. To believe in it blindly like you do, "I am doing it wrong". I am fully aware of that. I could look at any source as you do and blindly accept it. That is faith. If faith is your yardstick, the Qur’an is just as true as the Bible, which is just as true as the Book of Mormon, which is just as true as Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone.So when you tell me I'm doing it wrong, all I can say is, "Thanks!"
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I actually believe that, and it's one of the reasons that I've always been a very big fan of yours. You're sincere, and the rarity of sincerity never ceases to amaze me. More importantly, though: you

I looked up that passage and didn't see where it said "salvation is by good works." 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save t

I think it's more like, "Without faith, it doesn't matter what you do." Meaning you can't just be a good person to get into heaven.Regarding the first point, if you're standing in the middle of the r

We can take the letters written by early church fathers that quote all the major tenets, all the minor ones, and most of the obscure ones.Then we grab the ten thousand copies and compare the entire thing verse by verse. There is no confusing, there is no doubt, there is no reasonable person who would make the statements you are saying.
Okay, fine. I'm willing to listen. According to the bible, how do we get saved?
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Accept that Jesus died on the cross for your sins.I'm curious to see where this goes.
How do you know that? Does it say it in the bible?edit- Does it say that we all get salvation because Jesus died on the cross for our sins? Is that all I have to do?
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(Balloon guy @ Wednesday, October 26th, 2011, 9:10 AM) Age changed dramatically all at once after the flood.Pre-flood= 900+ yearsPost-flood = <130 years
Or ya know, they just exagerated their ages because they thought age was a sign of wisdom.
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How do you know that? Does it say it in the bible?edit- Does it say that we all get salvation because Jesus died on the cross for our sins? Is that all I have to do?
Well, I think John 3:16 is the famous citation, right?Also, Romans 10:9-10 - "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
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Well, I think John 3:16 is the famous citation, right?Also, Romans 10:9-10 - "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
Nope nothing to do with faith or Jesus dying.Salvation is by good works, apart from faith. (James 2:17, 20, 26)
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Nope nothing to do with faith or Jesus dying.Salvation is by good works, apart from faith. (James 2:17, 20, 26)
Well, I can see why this is confusing because it also says,Salvation is by faith, apart from works. (Romans 3:28; Galatians 2:16) and it says,Salvation comes from confessing and repenting of one's sins. (1 John 1:9; Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19)So the next question becomes, "Can all sins be forgiven?"
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Nope nothing to do with faith or Jesus dying.Salvation is by good works, apart from faith. (James 2:17, 20, 26)
I looked up that passage and didn't see where it said "salvation is by good works."

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

I interpret that as saying that if you truly believe, then you will want to show it by your actions. If you just say you believe, but never show it, then you don't really believe.

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Well, I can see why this is confusing because it also says,Salvation is by faith, apart from works. (Romans 3:28; Galatians 2:16) and it says,Salvation comes from confessing and repenting of one's sins. (1 John 1:9; Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19)So the next question becomes, "Can all sins be forgiven?"
You could let me respond before you jump ahead or this is going to get a little convoluted.
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I looked up that passage and didn't see where it said "salvation is by good works."

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

I interpret that as saying that if you truly believe, then you will want to show it by your actions. If you just say you believe, but never show it, then you don't really believe.

James ridicules those who say salvation is by faith alone. He says the devils believe in God. Will their faith save them?
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James ridicules those who say salvation is by faith alone. He says the devils believe in God. Will their faith save them?
But I don't think he's talking about "faith alone" as much as he's talking about "real faith." When someone says you must believe in God, that's short for you must believe that God is your savior. The devils believe in God, but they don't believe he's their savior.I think.
So the next question becomes, "Can all sins be forgiven?"
I think so.
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But I don't think he's talking about "faith alone" as much as he's talking about "real faith." When someone says you must believe in God, that's short for you must believe that God is your savior. The devils believe in God, but they don't believe he's their savior.I think.
No, it's pretty clear. He says that you have to have good deeds along with faith, or else faith is meaningless. In other parts of the bible it contradicts that message. So the questions abound. If it was divnely inspired, why didn't the different Gospels agree on such a basic premise?
I think so.
No - "Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:32) "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark 3:29)
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No, it's pretty clear. He says that you have to have good deeds along with faith, or else faith is meaningless. In other parts of the bible it contradicts that message. So the questions abound. If it was divnely inspired, why didn't the different Gospels agree on such a basic premise?No - "Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:32) "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark 3:29)
Kidding!Yes - "Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." (Acts 10:43) "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
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Let's do something simple. I am trying to think of things to show BG that doctrine is messed up, but let's take something really simple. Is it a big deal in the realm of things, no. But would divinely inspired writers have a major event completely wrong?What time of day was Jesus crucified?

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No - "Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:32) "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark 3:29)
Well that's interesting.
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Nope nothing to do with faith or Jesus dying.Salvation is by good works, apart from faith. (James 2:17, 20, 26)
Oh heck no. This is a complete misunderstanding of James.
I interpret that as saying that if you truly believe, then you will want to show it by your actions. If you just say you believe, but never show it, then you don't really believe.
... and this is obviously correct.
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Humans are terribly susceptible to confirmation bias and all sorts of other fallacies. We don’t just look for information that agrees with what we already believe, but we subconsciously ignore information that shows we’re wrong. I've always been the kind of person that questions everything, and when someone offers me a bit of information, the most important question I think I can ask is, “How do you know that?“ I guess I am not satisified with just having an answer, I want the "right" answer. I am also perfectly fine with saying, "I don't know" to things I don't. You seem to think my approach is wrong because I don't believe the accepted dogma on the issue from a Christian apologists aspersions that the 50 or so divisive issues aren't important. Well, umm, to me they are. I am skeptical about those issues. To say they aren't important and then tell me that I should live my life by someone's guess as to what was meant, it becomes very important. When you couple this with the other historical inaccuracies and dozens of scientific impossibilities it becomes more and more ridiculous to not question it's "divine" words.And again, if we actually looked past all those immense problems and blindly decided to accept it as a the best source for moral guidance, it falls extremely short, once again. So, I agree with you. To believe in it blindly like you do, "I am doing it wrong". I am fully aware of that. I could look at any source as you do and blindly accept it. That is faith. If faith is your yardstick, the Qur’an is just as true as the Bible, which is just as true as the Book of Mormon, which is just as true as Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone.So when you tell me I'm doing it wrong, all I can say is, "Thanks!"
So what would you have done before germ theory? Just ignored the advice of the crazy wacko that said to wash your hands?I mean, you can take the high road, and say, "since it can't be proven, then I'll take the skeptical approach".But it might cost you your life.
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I think so.
Correct. Blasphemy of the holy spirit is the only sin mentioned in the Bible as unforgivable, and most Scholars believe that that was a sin that could only be committed when Jesus was on Earth and immediately after. It was seeing a work of God, and attributing it to Satan.
No, it's pretty clear.
incorrect. All the Gospels fully agree that you can't say you believe in Jesus and then completely ignore the fact that you have supposedly given your life to Jesus. Jesus himself says to not only stop committing murder, but also stop hating people in your heart. It's 100% compatible with James in every single way. James is reinforcing that fact that, everything you hate about Christians, is in fact wrong.... the attitude of "It doesn't matter if I sin, because I'm forgiven."
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