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[Southern Buddhist 1]

Especially when the word in question means sevened, not days.

You're growing ever more certain of the exact meaning of the word, so it should be easy to supply the Hebrew word itself. I'd really like to see precisely what it is.

Or maybe the world did end in 1984, and we are just the final electrical impulses being played out in the dream of a giant sloth?

Probably that.

Israel has been appointed 70 weeks, 69 ended when Rome destroyed their Temple. They began wandering, a people without a country for the next 1900 years, they next time that the nation Israel will be the focus of the world will be the final 7 years of life on earth, the tribulation.

Three options:1) Then the world ended some time around 1955.2) The 63 years nine "weeks" of Israel's existence still don't throw your math off one bit. 69 + 9 +1 = 703) The world hasn't noticed Israel yet.

[Balloon guy 158]

"The blood of the just will be demanded of London,Burnt by the fire in the year 66" - Nostradamus

Close..but the correct answer was NERO.Oh wait, are you saying the correct translation of the word could be NERO?

[Balloon guy 158]

You're growing ever more certain of the exact meaning of the word, so it should be easy to supply the Hebrew word itself. I'd really like to see precisely what it is.

Here's the problem, the last time I referred you to the single best authoritative research tool for the original language of both the Old and New Testament, you poo-pooed it as slanted garbage, so I am first impacted with the notion that you don't in fact mean you really want to see 'precisely' what word they used.But irregardless I will endeavor to pretend that you actually care enough to allow yourself the option to look at what any reasonable person would see in an instant is an unbiased research tool.Strong's Concordance. this book takes EVERY English word in the Bible, shows you the location, AND THEN shows you the number corresponding to the numbered Hebrew or Greek words in the index. With this information, you can also cross reference EVERY single time that Hebrew word is used in the entire Old Testament. It also does this for the Greek NT ( but not the Aramaic words ( I don't think)).So if you look up the word week, you will find a number that can allow you to first find the Hebrew word and it's meaning, then you can take the number for that Hebrew word, flip over to the middle section where the numbers are listed with the passages it is used through the OT.I realize that the bias will be strong here, but I'm sure you will be able to use your bargain book research tools to cut through this bias and discover what has fooled scholars for 2,000 years.

Three options:1) Then the world ended some time around 1955.2) The 63 years nine "weeks" of Israel's existence still don't throw your math off one bit. 69 + 9 +1 = 703) The world hasn't noticed Israel yet.

1. Doubtful, but at least you are being 'open-minded'2. Using my numbers to prove you are right about the meaning of a Hebrew word is more crow worthy, step it up woman.3. They will soon. (((((google))))))

[Balloon guy 158]

The Sibylline Books of ProphecyAnother of the enduring legends connected with the Cumaean Sibyl is that of her nine sibylline volumes of prophecy. It is said that, in the guise of an old woman, she attempted to sell her written visions to the then king of the roman kingdom, Lucius Tarquinius Superbus. The king duly declined the offer, citing the old woman’s exorbitant fee. The sibyl proceeded to destroy three of the prophecies but again offered Tarquin the remaining six at the same original price. Again he refused, to which she burned yet a further three; for reasons unknown the king finally relented and purchased the final volumes.The books came to be revered sources from which to consult in times of turmoil. They were stored in a vault within the Temple of Jupiter on the Capitoline Hill in Rome. And there they remained until the temple was destroyed by fire in the 80s BC; hence the original sibylline books were lost forever.Rewriting the PropheciesWhen mentioned in ancient writings [1-2-3] the Cumaean Sibyl was said to have foretold her visions in leaves; scattered at the entrance to her grotto. If by chance an errant breeze would disturb these leaves the vision would be lost, never to be uttered again. And so, following the destruction of the sibylline volumes, an attempt was made to replace the lost ‘leaves’ from the four corners of the new empire. Over many years these ‘authenticated writings’ were carefully collated and again stored in the, now rebuilt, Apollonian temple.Christianity Embraces the Ancient OracleThe final fate of the books ironically elevated the Cumaean Sibyl into Christian favor. They were burned in AD 405 by General Flavius Stilicho, a Christian who believed them to be pagan heresy. But, in fact, certain passages within the books had already been perceived as prophecy pointing to the birth of Christ. And so the immortal seer of myth inadvertently formed a bridge between pagan ritual and the early establishment of Christianity. Subsequent Christian apologists would mention her many times over in their art, verse and even political aspirations.The Christian emperor, Constantine included entire passages referring to her so called ‘Christ Prophecies’ in his inaugural address to the roman assembly. In years to come Michelangelo would go so far as include her image amongst the prophets upon the Sistine ceiling (1508-12); strikingly manlike and hulking in appearance she is eloquently portrayed in the throes of Apollo’s curse.

Huh? Do we have these still or were they destroyed in a fire?What prophecies do they foretell?

[Roll the Bones 74]

Huh? Do we have these still or were they destroyed in a fire?What prophecies do they foretell?

The point is that prophecy is a normal part of myth making. It is a way for our Belief Engines to formulate estimates and guesses about the future, like a primitive tribesman predicting rain or drought, or the Gods wreaking havoc on their civilazation for not conforming to estalished tribal values. Magical thinking has been around since, well, before Adam and Eve were invented.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Strong's Concordance. this book takes EVERY English word in the Bible, shows you the location, AND THEN shows you the number corresponding to the numbered Hebrew or Greek words in the index. With this information, you can also cross reference EVERY single time that Hebrew word is used in the entire Old Testament. It also does this for the Greek NT ( but not the Aramaic words ( I don't think)).So if you look up the word week, you will find a number that can allow you to first find the Hebrew word and it's meaning, then you can take the number for that Hebrew word, flip over to the middle section where the numbers are listed with the passages it is used through the OT.

Sounds like an excellent way to waste a lot of time.

[Balloon guy 158]

The point is that prophecy is a normal part of myth making. It is a way for our Belief Engines to formulate estimates and guesses about the future, like a primitive tribesman predicting rain or drought, or the Gods wreaking havoc on their civilazation for not conforming to estalished tribal values. Magical thinking has been around since, well, before Adam and Eve were invented.

Except that we have the Dead Sea Scrolls, a collection of scrollls hiden away BEFORE the birth of Christ, with the entire OT in it, thereby allowing us to definitavely state that the prophecies in the OT about Christ all predate His birth.We don't really have that for any of those other ones..do we?

Sounds like an excellent way to waste a lot of time.

It is an amazing way to expand your understanding of something important to you. Like you might see the value of learning how to use an abacus and appreciate the symmetry of the form and function and see math as a harmonious music that is the background music to life. ( Or just think them asian were wicked smart )

[Roll the Bones 74]

Except that we have the Dead Sea Scrolls, a collection of scrollls hiden away BEFORE the birth of Christ, with the entire OT in it, thereby allowing us to definitavely state that the prophecies in the OT about Christ all predate His birth.We don't really have that for any of those other ones..do we?It is an amazing way to expand your understanding of something important to you. Like you might see the value of learning how to use an abacus and appreciate the symmetry of the form and function and see math as a harmonious music that is the background music to life. ( Or just think them asian were wicked smart )

I have a question. If I get this right, this is the following basis for your prophecy.1. There would be a decree to rebuild Jerusalem.2. Jerusalem and the Temple would be rebuilt.3. Then an anointed one (messiah) would be "cut off" (or "rejected" or "killed").4. Then Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed again.So, the first question would be, the dating would start from the "decree", correct? If so, was that decree in the Dead Sea Scrolls or wher is it?

[Roll the Bones 74]

2. The Babylonians supposedly destroyed Jerusalem and later the Persian came along and conquered them. At this point, the Persians told the Jews they could re-build a city there and a temple. Now, assuming that all Jewish communities had temples or wanted them, isn't that kind of a given? This temple seems to be a pretty big deal, why? Alot of cities had temples and stories about Gods surrounding them. Is this the same temple that Judas Maccabaeus rebuilt in Jerusalem as well? Wouldn't that be the second time it was built?3. What evidence do you have that Jesus was the Messiah they were predicting other than coincidence?4. The temple was destroyed until 40 years after this prediction. Umm, isn't that reaching a little?And finally, is this really the best God could do as far as prophecy and the whole bible goes? Really, an omnipotent, omniprescient being couldn't do better than this? Nothing about finding millions of people on the other side of the world or anything good?

[Balloon guy 158]

I have a question. If I get this right, this is the following basis for your prophecy.1. There would be a decree to rebuild Jerusalem.2. Jerusalem and the Temple would be rebuilt.3. Then an anointed one (messiah) would be "cut off" (or "rejected" or "killed").4. Then Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed again.So, the first question would be, the dating would start from the "decree", correct? If so, was that decree in the Dead Sea Scrolls or wher is it?

1. Yes2. Temple was not part of the prophecy3. The end of the 69 weeks would be when Messiah enters the city of Jerusalem4. Nothing about those two things in this prophecy

2. The Babylonians supposedly destroyed Jerusalem and later the Persian came along and conquered them. At this point, the Persians told the Jews they could re-build a city there and a temple. Now, assuming that all Jewish communities had temples or wanted them, isn't that kind of a given? This temple seems to be a pretty big deal, why? Alot of cities had temples and stories about Gods surrounding them. Is this the same temple that Judas Maccabaeus rebuilt in Jerusalem as well? Wouldn't that be the second time it was built?3. What evidence do you have that Jesus was the Messiah they were predicting other than coincidence?4. The temple was destroyed until 40 years after this prediction. Umm, isn't that reaching a little?

2. There is only one Jewish Temple, the one that they placed the Ark of the Covenant ( Made famous by Spielberg ) and the tablets with the ten commandmentsThis is also the only place God allowed any sacrifices to take place to Him for the sins of the nation. Without a Temple, there is no sacrifice possible.3. Rising from the dead.4. Again, the Temple was not part of this prophecy.

And finally, is this really the best God could do as far as prophecy and the whole bible goes? Really, an omnipotent, omniprescient being couldn't do better than this? Nothing about finding millions of people on the other side of the world or anything good?

He also predicted the Jets over the Patriots, but it is in an obscure verse formerly translated :

"The Antagonist of the Sharks will surprise the drinkers of Chinese leaves supporters when they misuse the forbidden meat made roundish."

But you are right, 400+ year predictions are so easy, I can understand why you are skeptical.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Gotta admit I wasn't really up on the Daniel quote so I checked it out."Seventy sevens have been decreed for your people. . . . So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven sevens and sixty-two sevens; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. Then after the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.”

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c] 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. So, tell me again how the rebuilding the city isn't part of the prophecy? You exclude this but include the big clue would be that the guy is riding in on a "donkey"? It would have been more impressive if he had said he would ride in on a Harley Davison, but really, didn't they all ride around on donkeys? Were they so out of the ordinary compared to camels or something?Oh, and where is the decree again? Who wrote it? What kingdom or person or united coalition wrote and announced the decree?

[Roll the Bones 74]

Looking at other biblical prophecy. I am assuming to make Daniel's accurate do to the prophetic word of God they all have to be.Here is Zechariah 9:3-4:Tyre has built herself a stronghold; she has heaped up silver like dust, and gold like the dirt of the streets. But the Lord will take away her possessions and destroy her power on the sea, and she will be consumed by fire.So, assuming it was Tyre, Lebanon since it's close by and all...It has about 130,000 residents and appears to be doing quite well. I mean, it's been at least a couple thousand years, so umm, how long do you get before we can call a prophecy a dud?

[Balloon guy 158]

Looking at other biblical prophecy. I am assuming to make Daniel's accurate do to the prophetic word of God they all have to be.Here is Zechariah 9:3-4:Tyre has built herself a stronghold; she has heaped up silver like dust, and gold like the dirt of the streets. But the Lord will take away her possessions and destroy her power on the sea, and she will be consumed by fire.So, assuming it was Tyre, Lebanon since it's close by and all... I mean, it's been at least a couple thousand years, so umm, how long do you get before we can call a prophecy a dud?

This is a newsflash:New York is not the actual York England. They just brought the name over. Also New Jersey, Newark, and one or two other names for cities have been recycled long before global warming made recycling vogue.2, the Tyre prophecy in the Bible has been gone over 2 other times that I know of. And you are returning to what at best could be considered kindergarten arguments about this. Are you in fact just finding the newest "The Bible is false" website and cut and pasting without reading, or did you forget that we already established the prophecy of Tyre was and is confirmed?

[Balloon guy 158]

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c] 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. So, tell me again how the rebuilding the city isn't part of the prophecy? You exclude this but include the big clue would be that the guy is riding in on a "donkey"? It would have been more impressive if he had said he would ride in on a Harley Davison, but really, didn't they all ride around on donkeys? Were they so out of the ordinary compared to camels or something?

The final 'week' has not started, when it does the rest of the prophecy will be realized. Nobody will make it to the end alive though, so best to not make plans you know, for pointing out how the world wasn't completely destroyed by fire etc...

Oh, and where is the decree again? Who wrote it? What kingdom or person or united coalition wrote and announced the decree?

you obviously spend time looking at anti-Bible websites, try one based on facts and stuff:

This period of 70 Weeks, or 490 years, is broken into two parts: a period of 483 years, which concluded with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ in A.D. 33; and one, final seven-year period that leads up to Armageddon. This is where Christians get the seven-year "tribulation period," which is more accurately called "the 70th Week of Daniel":

[BaseJester 1]

Close..but the correct answer was NERO.Oh wait, are you saying the correct translation of the word could be NERO?

What the **** are you talking about?

[vbnautilus 48]

2, the Tyre prophecy in the Bible has been gone over 2 other times that I know of.

You must be getting Tyred of that!

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Okay, Strong's it is:http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/he...jv/shabuwa.htmlAccording to the sidebar, the word "shabuwa," occurs 17 times in the KJV. Five of those times are for this one prophecy (because the word is repeated five times in three verses). So it occurs in 12 separate instances, including this one where it occurs five times in quick succession.In eleven of those twelve times, spanning nine different books, it means a seven-day period, the thing we actually call a week. Only for this prophecy does its meaning suddenly get changed to something different. Every other time it refers to a literal week of seven days. Only now, when "week" would prove to be a most inconvenient meaning, do people (although not Hebrew scholars) say, hey, it can mean other stuff, too.BTW, it is neither the word "seven": http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/he...jv/sheba-2.html;nor the word "year": http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/he...in-pl-only.htmlStrong's has convinced me: the word really does just mean "week."

[Balloon guy 158]

You must be getting Tyred of that!

Good night folks.Glad to see I could set one up for you there big guy!

[Balloon guy 158]

Okay, Strong's it is:http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/he...jv/shabuwa.htmlAccording to the sidebar, the word "shabuwa," occurs 17 times in the KJV. Five of those times are for this one prophecy (because the word is repeated five times in three verses). So it occurs in 12 separate instances, including this one where it occurs five times in quick succession.In eleven of those twelve times, spanning nine different books, it means a seven-day period, the thing we actually call a week. Only for this prophecy does its meaning suddenly get changed to something different. Every other time it refers to a literal week of seven days. Only now, when "week" would prove to be a most inconvenient meaning, do people (although not Hebrew scholars) say, hey, it can mean other stuff, too.BTW, it is neither the word "seven": http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/he...jv/sheba-2.html;nor the word "year": http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/he...in-pl-only.htmlStrong's has convinced me: the word really does just mean "week."

Well at least NOW you are using a good resource to be wrong about your understanding of the Bible.So much better than quoting some horrible author's bad reasoning to justify your incorrect conclusions.

[Roll the Bones 74]

The final 'week' has not started, when it does the rest of the prophecy will be realized. Nobody will make it to the end alive though, so best to not make plans you know, for pointing out how the world wasn't completely destroyed by fire etc...you obviously spend time looking at anti-Bible websites, try one based on facts and stuff:

Actually no, I was looking at biblical websites to try to get an understand of where you are coming from. If it will be "decreed" or someone will issue a "decree" who is doing this? King Nebuchadnezzar? Is the decree written down? Is there a copy? Any references to it some where else? Does any other historical evidence validate this decree?Secondly, if the final week hasn't started then the prophecy is not fulfilled. Why do you keep saying this is evidence that it was a true prophecy if it hasn't happened yet?edit- I did some looking on my own. Which if these is the correct decree?1. The decree from Cyrus in 539 BC. (see Ezra 1:1-4)2. The decree from Darius in 519 BC. (see Ezra 5:3-7)3. The decree from Artaxerxes to Ezra in 457 BC. (see Ezra 7:11-16)4. The decree from Artaxerxes to Nehemiah in 444 BC. (see Nehemiah 2:1-8)What do you want to bet it's the one that fits the date of the prophecy, eh?