DiamondDixie 12 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I checked the flop because knowing mahgenta (CO) I expected her to bet and I was going to check raise her here. Against a lot of players I would have made a c-bet but against her I thought the check raise would work best and get the most value. She is very aggressive post flop. I could have bet more on the flop but again I was trying to get value and the board wasn't really threatening. As for the river I could see her re raising here with many other hands than the flush and I felt I was pretty much pot committed. I thought maybe AT and she did it with 2 pair so I was still good. PokerStars - $5+$0.50|350/700 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 playersHand converted by PokerTracker 3MP+1: 6,870.00CO: 21,832.00BTN: 10,614.00SB: 42,138.00Hero (BB): 20,725.00UTG: 10,745.00UTG+1: 37,633.00MP: 23,443.00MP+1 posts ante 85.00, CO posts ante 85.00, BTN posts ante 85.00, SB posts ante 85.00, Hero posts ante 85.00, UTG posts ante 85.00, UTG+1 posts ante 85.00, MP posts ante 85.00, SB posts SB 350.00, Hero posts BB 700.00Pre Flop: (1730.00) Hero has A:heart: K:spade: fold, fold, fold, fold, CO calls 700.00, fold, SB calls 350.00, Hero raises to 1,750.00, CO calls 1,050.00, SB calls 1,050.00Flop: (5930.00, 3 players) A:spade: 3:heart: K:club: SB checks, Hero checks, CO checksTurn: (5930.00, 3 players) 5:club: SB checks, Hero bets 3,150.00, CO calls 3,150.00, SB calls 3,150.00River: (15380.00, 3 players) T:club: SB checks, Hero bets 7,690.00, CO raises to 16,847.00 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls 8,050.00 and is all-inCO shows 2:club: A:club: (Flush, Ace High) (PreFlop 31%, Flop 7%, Turn 27%)Hero shows A:heart: K:spade: (Two Pair, Aces and Kings) (PreFlop 69%, Flop 93%, Turn 73%)CO wins 46,860.00 Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Based on your history and what not I understand your actions here...But I bomb that flop all day. turn bet sizing is too small imo. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Don't include results. It biases responses.I don't play donkaments so my advice is whatevRaise more pre-flop. Two limpers, take advantage by creating more passive dead money.Bet the flop. Checking is FPS imo. You expect her to bet... why? What kind of range do you assign her and what about that range makes you think she is likely to bet? Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 It looks like you got ****edand the bad beat thread is ------------------------------------> Link to post Share on other sites
CorvairShaggy 5 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 It looks like you got ****edand the bad beat thread is ------------------------------------>^^^ This. Just my .02Based on what you described, in the moment I probably would have played it similar (depends on my mood), but after going back and looking here and reading the responses, the flop bet was the best. If you bet ~4k and take it down here, you just upped your stack by ~28%. NH. It is like what they teach us in PokerVT. Small Ball. In the deep stages, win the blinds and antes. (I know you have heard that line a gazillion times). You decided to swing for the fences, and like I said earlier, I might have played the same way, and I always get the same results.EDIT: Just read the other thread where this was at a final table. I definitely try to take a pot that size down on flop. Someone please correct me, because I am still learning this, but you gain an M of ~4 (?) and that would give you, even if the levels go up 1, 3 free orbits by taking it down at the flop. As you know, 3 free orbits at a final table with 2 players under 10BBs is a good feeling. Plus you would have been a solid 3rd place, and not far off from the leader. Link to post Share on other sites
myenemy 0 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Bet the flizzy!! As it turns out, you might have gotten called. "Make them pay." Link to post Share on other sites
rcgs59 15 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Knowing Madgenta well and her stats are super aggro. that's why I said in the Ft thread to push pre flop with her or Definitely on flop. You can this get this girl Lisa , you're a better player always remember that, she is a luck box ....... Link to post Share on other sites
wsox8 10 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 yes please bet the flop or I'm going to hurt someone Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Make it more preflop. 3k or so. Makes it easier to get stacks in/extract value.It's hard to play this badly after this flop. Checking is fine. I think check/call is better than check/raise since you give her a chance to bluff. Link to post Share on other sites
JSpencer 0 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 2.5K-3k pre flopCheck the flop, ship if any bets.Bet the turn if both check the flop for 1/2 of the biggest stack. Link to post Share on other sites
armen13 0 Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Def raise more pre. 2.5-4k like others said. You need to charge them more as you are out of position and there is a limper. something like 2.5x+ 1BB per the limper + 1BB for being out of position.Don't like checking flop for a few reasons:1-you have taken the lead and they expect you to have an Ace so are less likely to bluff this flop.2-The board is not dry vs 2 limp callers ranges. Any QJT on turn might hit a straight, and of course they could hit a set or runner runner flush. You don't want to give them a free card.3-Vs hands that can get stronger but not catch up (Like KJ or KQ getting 2 pair) you want to start building a pot. Link to post Share on other sites
DiamondDixie 12 Posted November 20, 2010 Author Share Posted November 20, 2010 I've had some coaching lately and one of the main things he's been telling me is to check in these situations to try induce more action and get more value so this was what I was doing here. This flop was only slightly damp and knowing mahgenta I was actually surprised when she didn't bet here. I do agree I should have made it at least 3X or 3.5X pre being OOP and the CO limp. Link to post Share on other sites
TwstdWrstr 10 Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 after the CO limp pf you should definitely bet at least 2.5K if not pot bet it @ 2850. Remember you are oop here.I like about a 1/2 - 2/3 pot bet on the flop in most cases, the only hand you are ever behind here is 33 and you can get many Ax hands to go along for the ride. Many times they will jam AQ/AJ/AT over the top and you can snap call it.Obviously in this case you have a history with this player, and if you were in the pot HU with them a check is probably fine. However three handed I think a bet is better. Even if you bet out and they fold you have picked up a nice net pot of t4180, which adds about 20% to your stack without a showdown. You have a strong holding and want to get your chips into the middle while you are most likely ahead. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 As for the river I could see her re raising here with many other hands than the flush and I felt I was pretty much pot committed.You chose the bet sizing throughout the hand. You should decide when to commit to the pot, not feel it when you are. Link to post Share on other sites
GetSprung 0 Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 I've had some coaching lately and one of the main things he's been telling me is to check in these situations to try induce more action and get more value so this was what I was doing here. This flop was only slightly damp and knowing mahgenta I was actually surprised when she didn't bet here. I do agree I should have made it at least 3X or 3.5X pre being OOP and the CO limp.Get a new coach Link to post Share on other sites
DiamondDixie 12 Posted November 21, 2010 Author Share Posted November 21, 2010 Okay I see it - with 2 others in the hand a bet on this flop would have been better. HU a check here might have been okay but in this case betting was best. Knowing her love of ace rags and her being unlikely to ever lay down her ace no matter what I bet on any street I think the outcome would have been the same but I definitely see the point of 1. raising more pre-flop and 2. betting the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
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