Balancing The Budget

[mk 11]

The way to make the sales tax not regressive is to not charge taxes on necessities -- food, clothes, housing, and whatever else the "necessity du jour" is. If only necessities are taxed, then, by definition, the poor don't pay any taxes, and the richer you are the more you pay. It seems like a simple and politically acceptable solution. The only hard part is the lobbyists fighting to be declared necessities.

Yeah, except the government would have to find hundreds of billions in new revenue streams somehow.

[hblask 1]

ohio and probably others already prohibit sales tax on food items. fast food included.

Yeah, that's why I think it wouldn't necessarily be so bad. In MN they don't tax clothes or grocery food, but they do tax fast food. There are limits on how much you can screw with a sales tax, because this is one that citizens care about every day. Not to dismiss TW's concerns, because certainly political pull will have more effect than necessary, but when it goes by broad categories, it's really not so bad.I think the biggest advantage of it would be that, if it were to replace all the other taxes, people would see, every day, how much they pay. If it doesn't replace the other taxes, I'm not interested. Last thing we need is a new place to hide small, barely noticeable taxes.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

High comsumption taxes lead to huge amounts of tax avoidance and fraud.I just had my bathroom renovated and there was a cash price that was lower than if I paid by check. The main reason is the 13% VAT tax we have here. If it's cash he doesn't charge it and he can undercut his competition that does.

[hblask 1]

High comsumption taxes lead to huge amounts of tax avoidance and fraud.I just had my bathroom renovated and there was a cash price that was lower than if I paid by check. The main reason is the 13% VAT tax we have here. If it's cash he doesn't charge it and he can undercut his competition that does.

I consider that an appropriate response and an important check upon overreaching government. That seems like a positive to me.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I consider that an appropriate response and an important check upon overreaching government. That seems like a positive to me.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I consider that an appropriate response and an important check upon overreaching government. That seems like a positive to me.

No, it just means when you're making tax policy you have to factor things like this in which means only a zealot would think a consumption tax on it's own could fund the entire government.

[dapokerbum 0]

High comsumption taxes lead to huge amounts of tax avoidance and fraud.I just had my bathroom renovated and there was a cash price that was lower than if I paid by check. The main reason is the 13% VAT tax we have here. If it's cash he doesn't charge it and he can undercut his competition that does.

You should report the guy and have his license revoked.

[ahosang 0]

You should report the guy and have his license revoked.

What is this license thing you speak of??

[dapokerbum 0]

What is this license thing you speak of??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/License ??

[hblask 1]

No, it just means when you're making tax policy you have to factor things like this in which means only a zealot would think a consumption tax on it's own could fund the entire government.

No, it means that only a zealot would think government needs to be so big that it cant' be funded with a consumption tax.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

No, it means that only a zealot would think government needs to be so big that it cant' be funded with a consumption tax.

So what rate of National Consumption Tax do you think will raise enough revenue for a government to run on even if the Libertarian Dream came true and all the things the government does that you don't like magically went away ?Will a 10% comsumption tax equal 10% of GDP for the government ? Of course not since comsumption is only one part of the economy.I think the Canadian GST is a pretty good example. It's a Value Added Tax which is the best type of sales or consumption tax since it doesn't layer tax on top of tax like a traditional sales tax does. Things like rent and groceries and drugs are exempted like has been suggested to make things not quite so regressive.I saw a stat that when the GST was 7% the tax raised about 2.2 % of GDP for the Federal Government. Even if the Federal Government could function on 10% of GDP that would mean a tax rate of about 32%. Is that at all realistic and can you imagine the amount of tax fraud there would be.

[hblask 1]

So what rate of National Consumption Tax do you think will raise enough revenue for a government to run on even if the Libertarian Dream came true and all the things the government does that you don't like magically went away ?Will a 10% comsumption tax equal 10% of GDP for the government ? Of course not since comsumption is only one part of the economy.I think the Canadian GST is a pretty good example. It's a Value Added Tax which is the best type of sales or consumption tax since it doesn't layer tax on top of tax like a traditional sales tax does. Things like rent and groceries and drugs are exempted like has been suggested to make things not quite so regressive.I saw a stat that when the GST was 7% the tax raised about 2.2 % of GDP for the Federal Government. Even if the Federal Government could function on 10% of GDP that would mean a tax rate of about 32%. Is that at all realistic and can you imagine the amount of tax fraud there would be.

National defense has generally taken less than 5% of GDP, so if you told people we'll give you back that 20% of your salary that we take and charge you 10% sales tax, it could easily cover that. State and local govt could add to that or use other taxes. The problem is there is no way to phase this in until after all local-problems-turned-federal are returned to the local level.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

National defense has generally taken less than 5% of GDP, so if you told people we'll give you back that 20% of your salary that we take and charge you 10% sales tax, it could easily cover that. State and local govt could add to that or use other taxes. The problem is there is no way to phase this in until after all local-problems-turned-federal are returned to the local level.

That pesky thing called reality has a way a way of getting in the way of ideological purity.Libertarian true believers have a lot in common with true Communist believers from a Century ago.

[hblask 1]

That pesky thing called reality has a way a way of getting in the way of ideological purity.Libertarian true believers have a lot in common with true Communist believers from a Century ago.

"We're doing really stupid stuff now" is hardly a solid defense of continuing to do stupid stuff. It may be an obstacle to removing the stupid stuff, but it doesn't justify it.

[mk 11]

National defense has generally taken less than 5% of GDP, so if you told people we'll give you back that 20% of your salary that we take and charge you 10% sales tax, it could easily cover that.

But what if I already pay 10% sales tax?

[mk 11]

No, it just means when you're making tax policy you have to factor things like this in which means only a zealot would think a consumption tax on it's own could fund the entire government.

What, are you new around here or something?

[Roll the Bones 74]

What, are you new around here or something?

haha

[dapokerbum 0]

So what rate of National Consumption Tax do you think will raise enough revenue for a government to run on even if the Libertarian Dream came true and all the things the government does that you don't like magically went away ?Will a 10% comsumption tax equal 10% of GDP for the government ? Of course not since comsumption is only one part of the economy.I think the Canadian GST is a pretty good example. It's a Value Added Tax which is the best type of sales or consumption tax since it doesn't layer tax on top of tax like a traditional sales tax does. Things like rent and groceries and drugs are exempted like has been suggested to make things not quite so regressive.I saw a stat that when the GST was 7% the tax raised about 2.2 % of GDP for the Federal Government. Even if the Federal Government could function on 10% of GDP that would mean a tax rate of about 32%. Is that at all realistic and can you imagine the amount of tax fraud there would be.

You mean people accepting cash and giving discounts because they aren't recording the income?

[El Guapo 8]

You mean people accepting cash and giving discounts because they aren't recording the income?

Ya that never happens in the current system.

[Balloon guy 158]

Ya that never happens in the current system.

Doesn't happen enough