Hayek Vs. Keynes Debate

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this is really awesomehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of...erstellar_Trade

[Balloon guy 158]

this is really awesomehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of...erstellar_Trade

First he wants us to pretend we can transport goods at the speed of light,Then he wants us to pretend that aliens are going to be attackingI guess pretend world is a good place for Krugman's ideas. Its the only place they actually work.

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First he wants us to pretend we can transport goods at the speed of light,Then he wants us to pretend that aliens are going to be attackingI guess pretend world is a good place for Krugman's ideas. Its the only place they actually work.

I want to buy one of his books but I'm afraid my parents would kick me out if they saw me reading it.

[Balloon guy 158]

I want to buy one of his books but I'm afraid my parents would kick me out if they saw me reading it.

Try this one instead

[akoff 0]

I want to buy one of his books but I'm afraid my parents would kick me out if they saw me reading it.

good to see you come from a solid home!!!

[Balloon guy 158]

Try this one instead

Well, here's a ringing endorsement I guess. The most recent cover of the Economist:

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http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/2...still-progress/

I’ve never liked the notion of talking about economic “science” — it’s much too raw and imperfect a discipline to be paired casually with things like chemistry or biology, and in general when someone talks about economics as a science I immediately suspect that I’m hearing someone who doesn’t know that models are only models.[...]What I’d add to that is that at this point it seems to me that many economists aren’t even trying to get at the truth. When I look at a lot of what prominent economists have been writing in response to the ongoing economic crisis, I see no sign of intellectual discomfort, no sense that a disaster their models made no allowance for is troubling them; I see only blithe invention of stories to rationalize the disaster in a way that supports their side of the partisan divide. And no, it’s not symmetric: liberal economists by and large do seem to be genuinely wrestling with what has happened, but conservative economists don’t.

I really like the stuff I quoted. I think what he's saying in the last sentence is just the natural conclusion: liberal economists got to try their hand at this crisis and didn't get the result they wanted, so it's on them to explain why it didn't work.as I've said a few times before, I'm not really convinced in one direction or the other. see the first paragraph I quoted from krugman for more info.

[hblask 1]

I notice he makes no mention of the economists who got this one right, and the one before that and the one before that. At what point does Krugman start to think maybe there's something to this Austrian school?

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I notice he makes no mention of the economists who got this one right, and the one before that and the one before that. At what point does Krugman start to think maybe there's something to this Austrian school?

Except the Austrians have been you know wrong about so much.

[LimbaughGod 0]

liberal economists got to try their hand at this crisis and didn't get the result they wanted, so it's on them to explain why it didn't work.

They did? lol. up until this recent Job (killer) (socialism) bill Obama has been pushing recently, taxes have been effectively lower on the wealthy than any time before since Bush took over and tried to fix this country. i thought liberals wanted to tax the hell out of the job creators.No, liberals haven't got their shot yet, which is why we still exist as a country. If the libs get their chance we'll be the The Socialist United States of Communist America and you'll be standing in bread lines and sending your grandparents to death camps.

[LimbaughGod 0]

Hey "Strat", you want me banned, answer my last post first you dumbass. good luck in stifling my free speech doing so sport. Enjoy your Socialist country without anyone questioning you if you succeed.

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sure

They did? lol. up until this recent Job (killer) (socialism) bill Obama has been pushing recently, taxes have been effectively lower on the wealthy than any time before since Bush took over and tried to fix this country. i thought liberals wanted to tax the hell out of the job creators.No, liberals haven't got their shot yet, which is why we still exist as a country. If the libs get their chance we'll be the The Socialist United States of Communist America and you'll be standing in bread lines and sending your grandparents to death camps.

the thing is, whether you lean left or right, your #1 goal as president (or as a politician in general) is to get elected again. so you do whatever you can to make the economy look better when you're in power. running a big gaping deficit with low taxes is actually the best solution to that short-term problem.I mean, the left did have effective full control over the government in the aftermath of the crisis. I might be wrong to say they got to try their hand at this recession, I don't know. you seem to be talking about other policy measures well outside the scope of this discussion.

[LimbaughGod 0]

surethe thing is, whether you lean left or right, your #1 goal as president (or as a politician in general) is to get elected again. so you do whatever you can to make the economy look better when you're in power. running a big gaping deficit with low taxes is actually the best solution to that short-term problem.I mean, the left did have effective full control over the government in the aftermath of the crisis. I might be wrong to say they got to try their hand at this recession, I don't know. you seem to be talking about other policy measures well outside the scope of this discussion.

Except I'm not at all. "Liberals" didn't get their shot. i'm pretty sure nearly every critical minded person would agree that Obama's first term has been slightly "right" of center. "liberals" want a heavy tax on people who take the most from society. They claim that if you're a million to billionaire you should be putting a shit ton of your money back into society. They claim that it is where your money came from, so you should be giving a higher percentage back. They constantly point to the pre-Bush taxation as an example. They claim that under Clinton taxation we exploded into surplus. They talk about Reagan raising taxes 11 times, and not looking to cut waste enough, as an example. They claim that no society has ever worked when the distribution of wealth is as heavy as it is in the U.S. They are wrong, of course. The reality is that you need about a 99% wealth on the top, vs our current 92% or whatever it is, so the wealth will trickle down. so clearly libs are Communist/Socialists who want the "poor" (which means niggers, immigrants, women and idiots of course) to take money from the job creators. It's dumb, but that's what they want.So no, Obama and the policy of his administration have not "shown" anything about how "progressive" (socialist) or "liberal" (communist) economics have failed. They even claim that the constitutional and perfect Citizens United ruling and the idea that money = free speech HURTS democracy. LOL. They claim that corporations being able to donate billions anonymously affects the voice of the "little guy" who can donate a dollar is a BAD thing. LOL.What they don't understand is the corporations, the oil companies, the bankers... these are the guys who are JOB CREATORS... so they deserve to have their voices heard over the 99% of people who aren't million/billionaires. They don't understand you have to deregulate everything and let these guys do what they want to at everyone else's expense FOR EVERYONE ELESES EXPENSE. Duh. It's simple math. Stop being a sheepish idiot. Turn on Fox, listen to Rush and Glenn and fix your stupid ideas about the world, thank you very much.

[brvheart 1,752]

I'm bored.

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I'm bored.

yeah, it's pretty obviously a troll. not sure why the mods just don't give a fuck.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

yeah, it's pretty obviously a troll. not sure why the mods just don't give a fuck.

c'mon, of course it's a gimmick account, that doesn't mean it should be automatically banned.We have a pretty Libertarian moderation policy for the most part and look for reasons not to ban accounts.

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c'mon, of course it's a gimmick account, that doesn't mean it should be automatically banned.We have a pretty Libertarian moderation policy for the most part and look for reasons not to ban accounts.

he brings petty, tired insults and constant thread derailment. that's about all I see. maybe I'm biased?fine, I'll employ the ignore system.also, I see you jonesing for henry's support, you sly bastard

[hblask 1]

Except the Austrians have been you know wrong about so much.

The last three major crises have all been warned about by the Austrians for years ahead of time. Check out Ron Paul warning about the housing crisis; or look back at CATO writing about the S&L crisis years before it happened. No other school of economics is close.

[hblask 1]

c'mon, of course it's a gimmick account, that doesn't mean it should be automatically banned.We have a pretty Libertarian moderation policy for the most part and look for reasons not to ban accounts.

Yeah, it's a boring gimmick, but no reason to ban it. It's very easy to just skip over them because they are half a page long and devoid of content.

also, I see you jonesing for henry's support, you sly bastard

Apparently it worked

[FCP Bob 1,312]

The last three major crises have all been warned about by the Austrians for years ahead of time. Check out Ron Paul warning about the housing crisis; or look back at CATO writing about the S&L crisis years before it happened. No other school of economics is close.

Nouriel Roubini also predicted the housing bubble and he certainly isn't an Austrian.Austrians also predict that large fiscal deficits lead to high interest rates. Well during massive contractions like we're in now that isn't the case as the all time low interest rates are showing.Austrians also say that Austerity is the answer to everything. A large part of the reason for the double dip that is happening in for example the UK is the government austerity. The US government sector has actually been contracting for the last 2 years when you factor in local and State governments. The Austrian school of thought helped to make the Great Depression far worse with the government austerity that happened in 1930 and 31.Personally I believe in counter cyclical fiscal policy. The problem is that we've had expansionary policies during times of growth and right now when we're in a massive liquidy trap and there is a huge gap in demand governments worldwide are going into austerity mode at the wrong time.

[vbnautilus 48]

I say we make a collective pact to ignore him.

[brvheart 1,752]

I say we make a collective pact to ignore him.

*wink*

[Balloon guy 158]

Nouriel Roubini also predicted the housing bubble and he certainly isn't an Austrian.Austrians also predict that large fiscal deficits lead to high interest rates. Well during massive contractions like we're in now that isn't the case as the all time low interest rates are showing.Austrians also say that Austerity is the answer to everything. A large part of the reason for the double dip that is happening in for example the UK is the government austerity. The US government sector has actually been contracting for the last 2 years when you factor in local and State governments. The Austrian school of thought helped to make the Great Depression far worse with the government austerity that happened in 1930 and 31.Personally I believe in counter cyclical fiscal policy. The problem is that we've had expansionary policies during times of growth and right now when we're in a massive liquidy trap and there is a huge gap in demand governments worldwide are going into austerity mode at the wrong time.

I'm still pretty new to economic theory.But isn't Austrian theory basically that cycles are going to happen, best not to make them worse by 'fixing them'?And Keynesian theory in practice in the US is: Have politicians spend a lot of money anywhere and the economy will magically get better?

[ahosang 0]

he brings petty, tired insults and constant thread derailment. that's about all I see. maybe I'm biased?fine, I'll employ the ignore system.also, I see you jonesing for henry's support, you sly bastard

I gave some cryptic clues as to who the account was. It's Spademan... Why not just ask him to stop making you miserable??

[strategy 4]

I gave some cryptic clues as to who the account was. It's Spademan... Why not just ask him to stop making you miserable??

lol? I'm not miserable over anything related to the joke account.