Holy What Do You Do Ruling Batman!?

[dapokerbum 0]

Are you serious? This is an awful awful awful awful awful idea. "Sorry you got it in with the nuts, but we're punishing you and saving the other player!"The correct ruling for a bar league is definitely the one that keeps everyone happy. Recreate the board, reshuffle the muck, and proceed with the hand. Or if it is a super casual league ask the two players involved what they would like to do to make the situation right.

You do realize that not everyone will be happy with your ruling right?? This was a huge problem and unfortunately not everyone involved is going to be happy at the end of the ruling ... no matter what type of ruling is used.

[dna4ever 2]

I like the equity idea a lot as well.

[Balloon guy 158]

I like the equity idea a lot as well.

I like the idea of explaining pot equity to a bunch of guys in a bar league.Buying the beer for the guy was the best you could do.

[dna4ever 2]

I like the idea of explaining pot equity to a bunch of guys in a bar league.

FactHad a guy tell me last night he was racing with his 68 vs other dudes JJ cause he had two live cards. Pot equity shouldn't be that tough to explain.

[Balloon guy 158]

FactHad a guy tell me last night he was racing with his 68 vs other dudes JJ cause he had two live cards. Pot equity shouldn't be that tough to explain.

Almost as good as my home game when a guy tried to tell me that the reason we burn a card is to make the game more random by going deeper into the deck.

[Gallo 1]

As a TD myself, I haven't read the spoiler, nor any of the replies yet. I'll answer and then go back and read to see if I get it right...In my opinion the only thing possible is to divide the pot based on equity. The player with two pair had four outs, and thus an approximate 8% chance to win the pot. He gets 8% of the pot, the other player gets 92% of the pot.I remind the players that this is a human game, and honest mistakes are sometimes made, and this is the fairest ruling I can make based on the circumstances.Edit: Well, at least my answer is unique. In my defense, our rulebook addresses the fact that the floor has the power to determine when an equity situation exists and to award the pot accordingly.I also agree with the idea that whatever makes the players happy in this situation works for me. I made a ruling like that a few weeks ago.

I feel like that is a pretty awful ruling. I don't see the difficulty in putting the exact same board back out, re-shuffling the deck and dealing the river. This seems like the most fair way to go about it.

This is very interesting.Last week I was playing $1/$2 at the casino, I raised PF with JJ, got 2 callers. The flop came out 7c3cX. I checked (had my reasons), next player bets, 3rd player folds, then I call. Just when I was about to put out the call, the dealer had already mucked the flop. So we were trying to figure out what happened, dealer screwed up. So we tried to figure out what to do, we call the floor. Floor ask what the board was, the 2 other players say the board was 7c3c5h, I tell them I don't think it was, but wasn't too sure. So the floor looks through the muck and says that it definitely wasn't the 5c as there was no 5 in the muck. So after some discussion we decide to just split the pot. We showed our hands, villain had QTo. So, yeah, I probably would've preferred the equity way.JSpencer, I think that's the reason why you can't really put the same board out, sometimes people might be wrong as to what the flop cards were.

[Jargonator 0]

like totally zomg

[GetSprung 0]

You do realize that not everyone will be happy with your ruling right?? This was a huge problem and unfortunately not everyone involved is going to be happy at the end of the ruling ... no matter what type of ruling is used.

I'm just trying to say that your idea would make zero sense in any poker situation. Killing a hand and returning all bets probably makes the least sense of anything I've read in this thread.

[dna4ever 2]

Hey Alan,I think trying to do whatever you can to rectify the situation to completion. I would have given all the identified cards back and shuffled the rest turned and burned a river card and let the hand play that way.Matt Savage

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I know I was joking.So we know that the one player had AQ the allin player still has his cards in his hand and we know what the board was.I guess we could remove all those cards from the muck and reshuffle everything else and burn and turn the river. It isn't ideal but it still gives the allin player the same statistical chance of hitting his outs based on the known cards.Or you can just tell the allin he is shit out of luck due to dealer error.

Hey Alan,I think trying to do whatever you can to rectify the situation to completion. I would have given all the identified cards back and shuffled the rest turned and burned a river card and let the hand play that way.Matt Savage

[Gallo 1]

But what do you do if people don't remember the flop cards, like in my situation?

[Balloon guy 158]

But what do you do if people don't remember the flop cards, like in my situation?

Re do the entire flop, but tell everyone not to remember what the other guy had.

[sandwedge 30]

Hey Alan,I think trying to do whatever you can to rectify the situation to completion. I would have given all the identified cards back and shuffled the rest turned and burned a river card and let the hand play that way.Matt Savage

Don't listen to him. He once let a girl string bet me on national television.I've thought about this a lot for the last few days. I found something in Robert's Rules that says you should reconstruct the stub to the best of your ability and deal the final card. However, I still have a problem with the fact that there's a good chance you'll deal someone's mucked hole cards. Like I said, though, as a player I could accept it.I also still feel that my ruling would be fair.

[BaseJester 1]

I've thought about this a lot for the last few days. I found something in Robert's Rules that says you should reconstruct the stub to the best of your ability and deal the final card. However, I still have a problem with the fact that there's a good chance you'll deal someone's mucked hole cards.

Why do you think this is a greater problem than assigning the wrong pot equity? It seems like the primary merit to your ruling is to confuse simple-minded players into not arguing.Suppose we could perfectly assign the pot equity as 50% and everyone understood that this was exactly correct. Would you deal a card, flip a coin, or give them each half?

[sandwedge 30]

Why do you think this is a greater problem than assigning the wrong pot equity? It seems like the primary merit to your ruling is to confuse simple-minded players into not arguing.Suppose we could perfectly assign the pot equity as 50% and everyone understood that this was exactly correct. Would you deal a card, flip a coin, or give them each half?

I prefer Rock Paper Scissors

[JSpencer 0]

This is very interesting.Last week I was playing $1/$2 at the casino, I raised PF with JJ, got 2 callers. The flop came out 7c3cX. I checked (had my reasons), next player bets, 3rd player folds, then I call. Just when I was about to put out the call, the dealer had already mucked the flop. So we were trying to figure out what happened, dealer screwed up. So we tried to figure out what to do, we call the floor. Floor ask what the board was, the 2 other players say the board was 7c3c5h, I tell them I don't think it was, but wasn't too sure. So the floor looks through the muck and says that it definitely wasn't the 5c as there was no 5 in the muck. So after some discussion we decide to just split the pot. We showed our hands, villain had QTo. So, yeah, I probably would've preferred the equity way.JSpencer, I think that's the reason why you can't really put the same board out, sometimes people might be wrong as to what the flop cards were.

I really don't think it is difficult to come to a general consensus of what the board is, especially if you have a lotalready invested in the hand. We know the one guy had the nut flush, and the other guy had a full house draw.Based off of that information alone we can pretty much already reconstruct the hand. Was going to write a lot more, but too tired.

[Gallo 1]

I really don't think it is difficult to come to a general consensus of what the board is, especially if you have a lotalready invested in the hand. We know the one guy had the nut flush, and the other guy had a full house draw.Based off of that information alone we can pretty much already reconstruct the hand. Was going to write a lot more, but too tired.

I was using my hand as an example, 2 of the players that were in the nand said there was a 5x, the floor came by looked through the muck and there was absolutely no 5. So what do you do in this situation?