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Who Knows More About Religion?


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I am not going to name names or anything but there is someone in here arguing poorly for their side. Not talking about BG because while at times I think he sounds wacky, I like him and how he argues. But someone else, wooooooow.

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If you'll pardon the irony of this metaphor, you're preaching to the choir.The fact that I think is clear is that no credible witness has seen the plates. And really, I think the existence of the plates is a tangential issue. If I claim to possess a stripey sweater granting me telekinesis, whether or not my friends have seen the stripey sweater doesn't really seem like an important distinction.
BaseJester, I'd like to buy your sweater.
He already knew that! Dummy! :club:
I am not going to name names or anything but there is someone in here arguing poorly for their side. Not talking about BG because while at times I think he sounds wacky, I like him and how he argues. But someone else, wooooooow.
Wait..what?
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Funny how christians are basically atheists with respect to all other religions. It's like BG's brain suddenly goes into sanity mode when talking about someone else's religion. If only we could find where that switch is so he could leave it on...
So you basically are agreeing with me that religious people can have tons of critical thinking skills and believe in God?Which means your entire argument up till now is not as correct as you wanted to pretend...Some people ( thinking people ) some people would argue that appearance of proof of critical thinking skills with regards to one subject, lends itself to the validity of their reasoning skills in another.So the fact that I meet your requirements of 'critical thinking skills' with regards to mormonism ( which btw has ties with masonry ) should lend itself to the possibility that I employed similar thinking skills with regards to Christianity?Or do you base the value of critical thinking skills with agreement with what your worldview is only?
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So the fact that I meet your requirements of 'critical thinking skills' with regards to mormonism ( which btw has ties with masonry ) should lend itself to the possibility that I employed similar thinking skills with regards to Christianity?
Yes, a possibility shattered by overwhelming evidence that you do not. Nice move, though. Also, I don't see why you are down on the mormons for having ties to masonry when your own religion has such strong ties to carpentry.
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Yes, a possibility shattered by overwhelming evidence that you do not. Nice move, though.
Thanks
Also, I don't see why you are down on the mormons for having ties to masonry when your own religion has such strong ties to carpentry.
Cause..cause..cause...the masons...trilateralist....but......what?
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I was giving the Ten Commandments support for their Divine origin due to their content.
OK, the Mosaic Law seems to you like the sort of thing a god would say so that overcomes any doubts you might have about their private delivery. Clearly no human could record laws such as these.
Them appearing out of thin air as it were with no codified equal in its day, lends itself more to their uniqueness.
Code of Hammurabi ?
The book of mormon was copied from a defrocked priest/pastor who wrote a story from a popular myth circulating at the time regarding the indians being descendants of Israelites who traveled here during the first century.It would be similar to the argument some on your side have made that the NT was copied from Greek myths.except in this instance we actually have proof that the area in question was rife with these types of stories, but there is no proof that Greek myths were being circulated in a religious culture adamantly closed to outside religions that also happened to be consistent with their older texts's prophecies that pre-date the so called plagiarize source of the Greek myths. SO other than that, it would be similar.
If nothing else, the various religions should make it clear that believing everything until it can be disproved isn't a good algorithm for finding truth.
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I think it's much more about what has been proven. Just as much as what hasn't been. The Jewish Bible declared that a Messiah was coming, and where he would be born, including his lineage. It also said that the temple would be destroyed and not rebuilt until God was going to return. It's almost unfathomable that the Jews haven't been able to get the scratch together in 2,000 years to rebuild the temple.As for the timing, or inserting the prophecies later: Dead Sea Scrolls. Written 100 years before Christ.

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OK, the Mosaic Law seems to you like the sort of thing a god would say so that overcomes any doubts you might have about their private delivery. Clearly no human could record laws such as these.
In the time frame of history, these were centuries in front of others. But alone this is not enough evidence I will grant you.
Code of Hammurabi ?
the_mummy_movie_image_brendan_fraser__1_.jpgDON'T OPEN THAT BOOK!
If nothing else, the various religions should make it clear that believing everything until it can be disproved isn't a good algorithm for finding truth.
Why are you guys so closed minded to think that anyone who doesn't agree with your worldview on religion must refuse to look at their religion with any rationality? It doesn't do well to dispel the stereotype that atheist are completely full of themselves and unable to admit that they don't have all the information in the entire universe necessary to make a declarative statement about the existence of God?Of course should you guys actually have all the information in the universe, then please, continue to declare yourselves the only source for truth as you casually assume that everyone who disagrees with you MUST be irrational.Or is humility de-volving and no one told me?
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Why are you guys so closed minded to think that anyone who doesn't agree with your worldview on religion must refuse to look at their religion with any rationality?
OK, I'll bite. Look at this passage rationally. Can you tell me with a straight avatar that you wouldn't be mocking the crap out of this were if from some religion other than your own?
18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die." 20 Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning." 21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was. 22 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites this: . . .
Imagine you're the son of a Hebrew slave and therefore bound to a master. You: Why am I a slave to this man?Moses: God said so.You: Really? Where was God when he told you this?Moses: Um, in a dark cloud.You: OK, no problem.
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Imagine you're the son of a Hebrew slave and therefore bound to a master. You: Why am I a slave to this man?Moses: God said so.You: Really? Where was God when he told you this?Moses: Um, in a dark cloud.You: OK, no problem.
This would be true for us, since we didn't witness the cloud. If you were the slave and it was something so weird that everyone who saw it was trembling with fear, you would probably be more apt to believe it.
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This would be true for us, since we didn't witness the cloud. If you were the slave and it was something so weird that everyone who saw it was trembling with fear, you would probably be more apt to believe it.
Ok, sure, if one personally experienced God, then that would be evidence for him.
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Ok, sure, if one personally experienced God, then that would be evidence for him.
And once someone personally experiences God, wouldn't he approach difficult situations from a position of trying to see why it is true instead of why it is false?In other words, wouldn't his bias be factually based?
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My intent with the original question was to put us into the situation of having a high personal stake in the truth of the account and only having the account to work from.

And once someone personally experiences God, wouldn't he approach difficult situations from a position of trying to see why it is true instead of why it is false?
What exactly do you mean by 'it' ? A person could feel the closeness of God, Moses could go away, and then lie about what He said. If the person just felt fear, then maybe the entity is a malign supernatural presence. Or just a scary cloud. Even if one believes that there is a God because of personal experience, other people's accounts of what He did or said are only as good as the the source. After all, other people report conflicting revelations of God's character.
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My intent with the original question was to put us into the situation of having a high personal stake in the truth of the account and only having the account to work from.What exactly do you mean by 'it' ? A person could feel the closeness of God, Moses could go away, and then lie about what He said. If the person just felt fear, then maybe the entity is a malign supernatural presence. Or just a scary cloud. Even if one believes that there is a God because of personal experience, other people's accounts of what He did or said are only as good as the the source. After all, other people report conflicting revelations of God's character.
More that the way you phrased the question asks how to believe a stand alone difficult situation.My point is that if you have a reason to believe in miracles, then the next one you are confronted with, isn't as hard to understand or believe.
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It's almost unfathomable that the Jews haven't been able to get the scratch together in 2,000 years to rebuild the temple.
You know jews, anything to save a buck!
As for the timing, or inserting the prophecies later: Dead Sea Scrolls. Written 100 years before Christ.
They are fascinating indeed, any idea if there's a public translation on the net?
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They are fascinating indeed, any idea if there's a public translation on the net?
Yes. It's the Bible. (Specifically the Old Testament.)
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