How To Properly Play Deep In Tourney With ~10bb

[CorvairShaggy 5]

I am having a little trouble with this. When you are deep in a tourney with blinds and antes at about ~10-12 effective BB, what is it better to do?? Shove certain ranges, or just 2.5x-4x raise, and lay down to a shove, or call it off?? I knwo they say call it off, but I guess I am having trouble playing certain hand ranges here? For example:Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($10+$1) t200/t400 ante t25 - 7 playersBB Big_M: t21,065 UTG Eyekall: t12,459 UTG+1 intrepid007: t12,236 HJ dna4ever: t14,409 CO Hero: t4,876 Button tbrick412: t17,227 SB r23y: t10,728 Preflop: (t775) Hero is CO with (7 players)3 folds, Hero raises to t4851 and is all-in, 3 foldsHero collected t1175Is it better to open shove this? I assume this is the lowest range here (maybe too low??), against tighter opponents. I shoved here wanting to pickup the blinds/antes, but would this be better to 2.5x and call a shove??? Maybe I am having trouble knowing how to get good value in these spots??

[HighwayStar 8]

Shove your range here as a default. Maybe get tricky with premiums vs randoms/lagtards.edit - don't even consider raise folding this stack in MTTsAlso does "I assume this is the lowest range here" mean you think A9o is at the bottom of hands you can shove? You can shove a ton wider than A9o

[lurbz 2]

Shove your range here as a default. Maybe get tricky with premiums vs randoms/lagtards.edit - don't even consider raise folding this stack in MTTsAlso does "I assume this is the lowest range here" mean you think A9o is at the bottom of hands you can shove? You can shove a ton wider than A9o

best i could do on short notice

[CorvairShaggy 5]

Shove your range here as a default. Maybe get tricky with premiums vs randoms/lagtards.edit - don't even consider raise folding this stack in MTTsAlso does "I assume this is the lowest range here" mean you think A9o is at the bottom of hands you can shove? You can shove a ton wider than A9o

(1) Ok. So at these levels, at CO/Button you are just open shoving any Ax, KJ, Q10, any PP, etc.??? I thought that shove range was more for about ~5-7 BB. (2) Also, would you open shove A9o from early position, and would this be considered low end of range, or go wider here?(3) Also, if the blinds/antes in the pot is about 20% or better vs your stack, are you 2.5x-3.5x open raising in these spots, or just open shoving with stuff like A9o, KQs, etc.Question 3 maybe just re-asking the topic question, but for some reason I am seeing as two separate concepts. IDK. I will try to post a hand or two to better explain, because it is kinda hard to explain on paper. More of a verbal discussion maybe??

[TrueAce13 18]

you can prolly find a good shove chart online somewhere that will tell you what is a +EV shove depending on position

[nutzzcase 0]

Is it correct to raise with 10bbs in a turbo structure?

[TrueAce13 18]

Is it correct to raise with 10bbs in a turbo structure?

no...but highway is better w/ turbos...let him explain!

[HighwayStar 8]

(1) Ok. So at these levels, at CO/Button you are just open shoving any Ax, KJ, Q10, any PP, etc.??? I thought that shove range was more for about ~5-7 BB. (2) Also, would you open shove A9o from early position, and would this be considered low end of range, or go wider here?(3) Also, if the blinds/antes in the pot is about 20% or better vs your stack, are you 2.5x-3.5x open raising in these spots, or just open shoving with stuff like A9o, KQs, etc.Question 3 maybe just re-asking the topic question, but for some reason I am seeing as two separate concepts. IDK. I will try to post a hand or two to better explain, because it is kinda hard to explain on paper. More of a verbal discussion maybe??

Just gonna answer these regarding this exact hand.1) With this stack from the CO (barring some ICM issue, which is 95% of the time) you can profitably shove22+ A2s+ A7o+ A5o K3s+ KTo+ Q6s+ QTo+ J7s+ JTo T7s+ T9o 97s+ 87s 76s I may leave out the bottom end of this or open it up wider depending on who is in the blinds.2) The earliest you can shove this is CO/HJ, You can shove the suited variety from anywhere. 3) I really don't understand. If I'm open raising this stack I'm doing it exploitatively with a specific read on one or more* of the players to act...and I'm usually doing it with a strong range. With hands like A9o/KQs you get flatted a lot and have to attempt to play postflop with ridiculously shallow stacks when 2/3s of the time you don't hit the flop. This isn't something I'm comfortable doing. Raise/calling these is rarely better EV than just shoving. Yu have to have a complete maniac reshoving Q5o to make it a lot better. *note this read may be as little as someone I haven't played with before.

Is it correct to raise with 10bbs in a turbo structure?

Sometimes but not in general...see above

[CorvairShaggy 5]

Just gonna answer these regarding this exact hand.1) With this stack from the CO (barring some ICM issue, which is 95% of the time) you can profitably shove22+ A2s+ A7o+ A5o K3s+ KTo+ Q6s+ QTo+ J7s+ JTo T7s+ T9o 97s+ 87s 76s I may leave out the bottom end of this or open it up wider depending on who is in the blinds.2) The earliest you can shove this is CO/HJ, You can shove the suited variety from anywhere. 3) I really don't understand. If I'm open raising this stack I'm doing it exploitatively with a specific read on one or more* of the players to act...and I'm usually doing it with a strong range. With hands like A9o/KQs you get flatted a lot and have to attempt to play postflop with ridiculously shallow stacks when 2/3s of the time you don't hit the flop. This isn't something I'm comfortable doing. Raise/calling these is rarely better EV than just shoving. Yu have to have a complete maniac reshoving Q5o to make it a lot better. *note this read may be as little as someone I haven't played with before.Sometimes but not in general...see above

So, basically I need to throw out the 3x open raise mentality, unless I am willing to put it all in. Last night in the Neg-o I had KQ clubs when I raised 3x with ~12BB , so I was about 20% of stack in. r23y 3-bet and put me all-in when he was BB. Now, I know r23y doesn't bet like that unless he has it, so I am assuminig I am in a flip situation, or he has AK, AQ, and maybe AJ, but either way I am going to need to catch to have a chance. Now, I folded and lived to right another day, but only had ~8 BB left. Now, if I just open shoved this, I would have been in the same boat, and most likely went out, but I was low anyway. I guess in this situation he just happened to wake up with something and there was nothing I could do. That is the thought process. Is it better to open 2x-3x that deep and hope the oppenents fold just to "safely" pickup blinds/antes. If you are say 6/9 in a 180 man and you have ~12BB and the other 3 below you are at like ~3BB and ~6BB, wouldn't it be "safer" to play a ~12BB stack this way to wuss-out and pick up a few extra $$$. I mean, if chip leader has like 100BB+ that late, you are going to need to catch some miracles to get a chance to win it, but if you could finish 6th, the pay is a little better than 9th.Did I explain a little better??

[TrueAce13 18]

shouldn't 3x post ante

[CorvairShaggy 5]

shouldn't 3x post ante

?? You mean don't open 3x after antes start?? drop down to 2.5x or just min-raise? That way you lose less of your stack from a shorty shove if you are stealing??

[rrumsey 0]

i shove superwide here. like a7 off +, a6 suited plus, k9suited +, k10 off+ and any PP's imoi mean you have 12BB and gain like 2 BB everytime you take it pre. ez shove. and i would shove wider if it was a bubble spot

[JSpencer 0]

Why raise folding is bad in this spot:You are in the CO with A9oBlinds 10/20You have 200 Chips (10 Blinds)SB and BB post for a total of 30 chips. You raise it up to 60 (90 in the pot), Button Calls (150 in the pot), SB folds, BB calls ( 190).Flop comes J T 5BB leads out for 135Welcome to a Shitty Situation. Do you now fold with your 140 chips? And this is without Antes. Shove it all in. Prevent this from happening.

[CorvairShaggy 5]

Why raise folding is bad in this spot:You are in the CO with A9oBlinds 10/20You have 200 Chips (10 Blinds)SB and BB post for a total of 30 chips. You raise it up to 60 (90 in the pot), Button Calls (150 in the pot), SB folds, BB calls ( 190).Flop comes J T 5BB leads out for 135Welcome to a Shitty Situation. Do you now fold with your 140 chips? And this is without Antes. Shove it all in. Prevent this from happening.

Thanks for this. Puts it into a better perspective this way.

[Tehtoe 3]

i shove superwide here. like a7 off +, a6 suited plus, k9suited +, k10 off+ and any PP's imoi mean you have 12BB and gain like 2 BB everytime you take it pre. ez shove. and i would shove wider if it was a bubble spot

You should be shoving wider, highway's range posted above is correct.Also corvair your question doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If your 180 man example, you should not be raise/folding like ever...there's ICM considerations with those stacks around, so you should just be not be shoving as wide in certain spots. Don't raise/fold in spots like these, it's a giant leak.