Teaching Evolution To 3rd Graders

[custom36 4]

And Whom made the matter?

I just read an article that said Stephen Hawking's new book argues that it's entirely possible matter made itself out of nothing. But I'm not near smart enough to understand why.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

I just read an article that said Stephen Hawking's new book argues that it's entirely possible matter made itself out of nothing. But I'm not near smart enough to understand why.

He said more work is needed to prove this but we have time because 'Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.'Heh.

[custom36 4]

He said more work is needed to prove this but we have time because 'Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.'Heh.

It's tough to make jokes with a computer-voice.

[vbnautilus 48]

what's the difference between this and a belief in intelligent design?

Mostly forethought. In natural selection, the specific traits arise through an interaction between between organisms and their environment. In "intelligent design" they are planned by something. "Intelligent design" also fails to make testable predictions, and therefore does not qualify as a scientific theory. Natural selection proposes a specific process by which biological organisms adapt to their environments, and its a testable scientific theory.

are you talking about self awareness? the bonobo recognizes itself in the mirror.

Many animals self-mirror-recognize (dolphins, some birds, chimps, possibly elephants, etc.). That is not what I was talking about. Recursion is a specific computational ability that allows one to build complex hierarchies made up of smaller units. For example, you can train a chimpanzee to understand numbers... it takes lots of training and each successive number (1,2,3,4...) must be learned by lots of additional training. But human children, in contrast, at some point have the insight that each number is an increase of one from the last, they figure out the "rule" and then learning the other numbers is just a matter of picking up the names or symbols. Chimps never get this; learning the concept of "9" takes as much time as learning "2". This ability turns out to be really important for language where smaller units are combined in to larger ones, and a few basic rules allow for an effectively infinite number of possibilities that we create with ease.

i'm gonna get some details wrong but we notice other apes in the wild developing "culture." there was a tribe of chimps living in the wild. due to fighting all the strongest males were killed. the rest of the males (weaker ones) then began grooming one another (something that the stronger males wouldn't do). From then on all the males groomed each other including offspring and males that joined from other tribes.

There are now some isolated examples of chimp "culture". A few years ago it was shown that chimps in different parts of the forest had differing tool use practices that persist over generations, for example, but there is much debate about whether this constitutes true culture or something else. If it is, it is a rudimentary form and certainly they don't have an open ended accrual of knowledge from generation to generation like we do.

we also have (relatively) very advanced pattern recognition.

Yeah, but so do many other animals. Monkey vision is very similar to ours for example.

[vbnautilus 48]

That's the thing, though.... it did create itself. A long time ago there was matter, and now there's a computer. It came from nothing.Does it matter that an intermediate step was the creation of humanity?

It basically grew out of the earth like an apple from a tree.

[navybuttons 15]

good post

thanks. truthfully i don't know much about "intelligent design" i was just curious for your thoughts.could intelligent design and natural selection be two different interpretations of essentially the same thing? natural selection seems "intelligent" and with foresight leads to "design."do you think animals on other planets have round iris in their eyes as well?

[Balloon guy 158]

He said more work is needed to prove this but we have time because 'Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.'Heh.

So just a brief outline:Original evolutionist / 'There is no need for God' people said: The universe only needed a few million years.This amount of time has changed considerably to the point now where all we need is eternity and voila' 'Life is here.'And at each and every step, they declared that they were right.You guys have finally reached the end of possible explanations. 'Given enough time, everything would happen' is the new 'proof' that God isn't needed.As long as you understand the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics...you can understand why.Those of you who can't... can just trust us.And tell those creationist that they are stupid for trusting someone to tell them the God made the universe.

[Balloon guy 158]

BTW that post is best if read in a Mr. Roboto voice.

[VeniVidiVici 0]

A long time ago there was matter, and now there's a computer. It came from nothing.

Lol.Anyway I think that 10 year olds are too young to be messed around with theologically/scientifically.. just let em be young.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Lol.Anyway I think that 10 year olds are too young to be messed around with theologically/scientifically.. just let em be young.

10 year olds are smarter than you think. They're 5th graders, for heaven's sake. I was well versed in things like dinosaurs and the solar system during kindergarden. I think a 5th grader can handle the relatively simple concept of evolution. It only becomes an issue of theology when religious people bring it up. Otherwise, it's standard, and somewhat simple, science. I mean, we're not talking about quantum mechanics here (which religious people would have a big problem with, if they understood it).

[VeniVidiVici 0]

10 year olds are smarter than you think. They're 5th graders, for heaven's sake. I was well versed in things like dinosaurs and the solar system during kindergarden. I think a 5th grader can handle the relatively simple concept of evolution. It only becomes an issue of theology when religious people bring it up. Otherwise, it's standard, and somewhat simple, science. I mean, we're not talking about quantum mechanics here (which religious people would have a big problem with, if they understood it).

I'm not saying that they couldn't understand it, but it could become confusing when their parents have a rather conservative christian view which they teach their kids & their teacher explains that those conservative views are scientifically incorrect. Could create a weird sort of relationship with either the teacher or even worse, the parents. Plus I think it's totally irrelevant for children that age, they shouldn't really be concerned with the mysteries of the universe that much yet, I think when they get 13-14 it would be more appropriate..

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I'm not saying that they couldn't understand it, but it could become confusing when their parents have a rather conservative christian view which they teach their kids & their teacher explains that those conservative views are scientifically incorrect.

Well, then the problem lies with the views of the parent, not the scientific consensus. We shouldn't hide the truth just because some fringe people don't believe in it. I agree that it will be confusing when the kid goes home, tells his parents that he learned about evolution, and the parents claim that it's all made up. We should aim to change the parents' minds, not the curriculum.

[VeniVidiVici 0]

We should aim to change the parents' minds, not the curriculum.

I agree, and goodluck with that

[timwakefield 68]

“While evolution is a robust scientific theory, it is a philosophically unsatisfactory explanation for the diversity of life.” wrote Ribbens.

I mean, this is a horrendous thing for an educator to say. How can he say something like that and then say that he's totally cool with evolution, don't get him wrong, it's just that it isn't quite age appropriate. No dude, you just flatly stated that you don't believe it to be true. Robust though! Ohhh yeah, that baby is a full, strong theory. It sure does try hard and we're all proud of it! But it's just a theory amirite!

Ribbens explained further, “Evolution touches on a core belief — Do we share common ancestry with other living organisms?

I mean, the answer to that question is a resounding yes. It's like asking, Does rain fall from the sky because of evaporation and complex weather patterns and so on? Because some kids still think it's Zeus with his thunderbolts and it's really too young to tell them that they're wrong. So ten is around the age when you no longer have to whisper about the non-existence of Santa Clause. If you're ten years old and you still believe in Santa, get over it kid. But apparently twelve is around the age when it's okay to stop whispering about how our super-duper old ancestors are monkeys and lizards and so on. I know that they specifically say how they're not trying to teach ID or anything like that, but this comic is still awesome and pretty spot on.

[vbnautilus 48]

Someone I know tweeted this today, I thought it was funny. Christine O'Donnell: 'If evolution is real why are there still monkeys?' Well, education is real & there are still morons

[Balloon guy 158]

Someone I know tweeted this today, I thought it was funny. Christine O'Donnell: 'If evolution is real why are there still monkeys?' Well, education is real & there are still morons

Gotta keep the democrat party rosters full somehow.Plus she was on Bill Mahers show when she said it, so obviously she needed to be stupid to fit in.Not that it is stupid to ask why natural selection isn't really all it is promised to be.

[vbnautilus 48]

Gotta keep the democrat party rosters full somehow.Plus she was on Bill Mahers show when she said it, so obviously she needed to be stupid to fit in.Not that it is stupid to ask why natural selection isn't really all it is promised to be.

it promises no more monkeys?

[Balloon guy 158]

it promises no more monkeys?

Exactly...it lied to us. It said :Hey you tree-climber with excellent smell skills and huge muscles, want to be able to fly? Then start losing muscle mass and hearing and smell, and I'll give you bigger brains. Plus I will kill off the ones of you that refuse to change.Then it didn't kill them monkeys, it let them stay basically unchanged for millions of years. That, and sharks and turtles.I mean how can you guys trust him, he's a liar.

[vbnautilus 48]

I'm pretty sure some monkeys have died.

[Balloon guy 158]

I'm pretty sure some monkeys have died.

Like some most of your jokes?

[Roll the Bones 74]

They did a SNL skit on her this past week which was pretty hilarious.

[Balloon guy 158]

They did a SNL skit on her this past week which was pretty hilarious.

Ha, more lies

[Roll the Bones 74]

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/vid...ld-open/1251376

[Roll the Bones 74]

[Balloon guy 158]

Ha, more lies

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/vid...ld-open/1251376

ConfirmedSNL hasn't been funny for over a decade