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Option For U.s. Troops: Go To Christian Concert Or Be Punished


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Religious indoctrination? Really? Are you aware of all the similarities between Islam & Christianity? Sitting out a concert about the Lords love & help in war, and just translating it to Allah's love & help in war isn't much of an effort. And it's not like like a Michael W. Smith concert is a total brainwash aimed to crush the puny muslim minds. And as mentioned before, you are subject of the military, so if you refuse to listen you should suffer the consequences. If you join the Iraqi military and refuse to join a worship ceremony of Allah I don't think you will get a similar treatment as the muslims mentioned in the OP.
So we nonbelievers just have to listen to your religion or suffer the consequences? Really? That's your position? Can you just teach the bible to my kids in school then too? They should just suck it up?The Iraqi military is the military of a muslim nation. Our military is the military of a nation that guarantees freedom of religion and separation of church and state.
I will say it again- if it was a Muslim event set up I would expect those that were not Muslims to go and be a team player. I have been to multiple organizations religous functions, met all kinds of people, and did not agree one bit with what I heard or saw.
Not under threat of punishment you haven't. That's nice for you to choose to do that, but I don't see why you think you can compel me to do that simply because I have chosen to serve my country. You think there are no limits to what a commanding officer can compel their soldiers to do? Obviously this is not the case. Participating in a religious function is one of the things you specifically cannot force someone to do.
As far as punished, once again, its the military. They did not have to offer another choice. They could have just said "you are going here."
Actually no, they cannot. That is the whole point. They cannot compel someone to participate in a religion simply because they are a soldier. Sorry.I don't know what countries you guys are from. In the United States this is illegal.
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So we nonbelievers just have to listen to your religion or suffer the consequences? Really? That's your position? Can you just teach the bible to my kids in school then too? They should just suck it up?The Iraqi military is the military of a muslim nation. Our military is the military of a nation that guarantees freedom of religion and separation of church and state.
I'm not saying I want you to do anything. But once you're in the military they require you to follow their rules, you might not like having to do 100 push ups but if you don't do em there are certain consequences. And these are men we are talking about, not kids who sponge up almost everything their parents & teachers tell them. If one Michael W. Smith concert can undo all those years of (often) parental muslim indoctrination, that says more about the fragility of that faith than it does about the concert.Just accept it, the US is a mainly Christian nation, which allows freedom of other religion & conviction aswell. This became especially evident after 9/11, and has been orchestrated very nicely since then to oppose the "bad muslims who attacked us".
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I'm not saying I want you to do anything. But once you're in the military they require you to follow their rules, you might not like having to do 100 push ups but if you don't do em there are certain consequences. And these are men we are talking about, not kids who sponge up almost everything their parents & teachers tell them. If one Michael W. Smith concert can undo all those years of (often) parental muslim indoctrination, that says more about the fragility of that faith than it does about the concert.Just accept it, the US is a mainly Christian nation, which allows freedom of other religion & conviction aswell. This became especially evident after 9/11, and has been orchestrated very nicely since then to oppose the "bad muslims who attacked us".
Yeah I think you are entirely missing the point. The military, as a branch of the federal government, is not allowed to take a position in relation to religion. They can't make soldiers do religious things. This is why the army is investigating the situation with the concert. It's a matter of principle. It is an important principle to uphold as our of freedom of religion depends upon it. This is from a supreme court ruling (Everson v Board of Education): The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State."
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Yeah I think you are entirely missing the point. The military, as a branch of the federal government, is not allowed to take a position in relation to religion. They can't make soldiers do religious things. This is why the army is investigating the situation with the concert. It's a matter of principle. It is an important principle to uphold as our of freedom of religion depends upon it.
I'm not missing the point, I get state/church seperation, and trust me I get the importance of freedom of religion. I however don't think this obstructs that freedom in any way. I just don't see how going to that concert hurts them or their freedom of religion, nobody is making them believe anything. It's like banning Simon & Garfunkels mrs Robinson from the radio because "Jesus loves you more than you will know" is obviously Christian indoctrination & there should be an "Allah loves you more than you would know" version to not upset the Muslims when they are in a shopping mall.Just make them all go to a Yusuf Islam concert aswell so all the whining can stop!
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Sigh- I can't stress enough how dissapointing it is that soldiers would be such unabashed pussies. Just no other word for it, completely indefensible, and if I was them I would refrain from looking in a mirror for the rest of my living days, knowing that all I will see is a giant pink vagina.

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It's like banning Simon & Garfunkels mrs Robinson from the radio because "Jesus loves you more than you will know" is obviously Christian indoctrination & there should be an "Allah loves you more than you would know" version to not upset the Muslims when they are in a shopping mall.
yeah, it's exactly like that.
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Sigh- I can't stress enough how dissapointing it is that soldiers would be such unabashed pussies. Just no other word for it, completely indefensible, and if I was them I would refrain from looking in a mirror for the rest of my living days, knowing that all I will see is a giant pink vagina.
They're only pussies if they fail to stand up for their civil rights because they might be punished.Or if they go to some christian music concert.
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It's about following orders when in the military.No one was asking them to denounce their faith..... just march to the stupid thing and stop whining.I wouldn't want to march to a Hanson Brothers concert but if my unit was doing that...I would.The fact they got extra duty for not participating is the norm for the military.

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Besides, the Barlow Girls are more like a half-Christian band. Their music is very non-confrontational and vague.Steve Camp would probably be a much better choice for shoving their faces in it.The thing I find funniest is that we are all fine with them being taught the best ways to kill all day for years. But 2 hours of listening to Christian music???? why this is horrible.But after being indoctrinated by government paid authority figures in every school in America that you are a product of random mutation and that therefore there is no God, I can see why you guys are afraid that 2 hours of truth might break through your carefully crafted lies.

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Sigh- I can't stress enough how dissapointing it is that soldiers would be such unabashed pussies. Just no other word for it, completely indefensible, and if I was them I would refrain from looking in a mirror for the rest of my living days, knowing that all I will see is a giant pink vagina.
I can't stress enough how un-American I find this attitude. Standing up for your rights = big pussy. Sure.If you can't see a problem with forcing someone to go to a religious indoctrination concert under the threat of punishment if they refuse, then you can't see anything. But hey if Obama talks to your kids, look out!
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It's about following orders when in the military.No one was asking them to denounce their faith..... just march to the stupid thing and stop whining.I wouldn't want to march to a Hanson Brothers concert but if my unit was doing that...I would.The fact they got extra duty for not participating is the norm for the military.
I actually think this is an excellent point, at least with regard to the punishment. I don't think its really the punishment that bothers people tho, but the order in the first place.
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I actually think this is an excellent point, at least with regard to the punishment. I don't think its really the punishment that bothers people tho, but the order in the first place.
The military is full of stupid orders.I just don't really see this as a violation of religious freedom by the military.
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The military is full of stupid orders.I just don't really see this as a violation of religious freedom by the military.
I think the only way you cannot see a forced religious concert as a violation of religious freedom is if they are promoting your religion. If some soldiers told Fox News that they were forced to go to a two hour Pro-Islam concert under threat of maintenance duty if they refused, the far right would be rioting in the street.....that's an absolute guarantee.
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I actually think this is an excellent point, at least with regard to the punishment. I don't think its really the punishment that bothers people tho, but the order in the first place.
The fact that they punished people for not attending means that there was no free choice not to participate.
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The fact that they punished people for not attending means that there was no free choice not to participate.
Military =/= free choice almost ever ( hoping that =/= is the correct symbol for is not equal because I don't know for sure )Yea, I'm not real keen on this situation. I understand the general, also know some and understand that for some of them, their orders are not subject to any logic or need for logic.But to grab this and act like the Christians are about to take over the military, pretty much an over-reaction because it is not going to happen.And even if it does, I will offer you some of you hiding space in my warehouse. Well, as long as it doesn't put me out much.
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If some soldiers told Fox News that they were forced to go to a two hour Pro-Islam concert under threat of maintenance duty if they refused, the far right would be rioting in the street.....that's an absolute guarantee.
Well I wouldn't, and I hope you don't think "the far right" is a decent example. There are always extremists on both sides, that's the danger of it.
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Just googled The Barlow Girl....I think these soldiers are just gay and didn't want to see hot chicks rocking the free world!I will say that the concert should have been optional though.And I'm not real sure how accurate the story is depicted.I can see a different version involving an officer commanding his unit to march as 1 to the concert area and once there the option of falling out and returning to base being given. Once back at base, there is no way the military is going to allow soldiers to lay on their bunk and play video games. If my unit was marching to something I found very offensive and I would rather clean heads than attend it, so be it. Clean the heads then.It just seems that this may be blown out of proportion ... or at least if there is any underlying intention there at all which I doubt.

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What does free choice have to do with anything in the military?
Because the military as a government institution cannot compel or encourage a soldier to attend a religious event. They can offer religious services that enlisted individuals are free to attend, but they cannot use their power of command to spread their religion.
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Because the military as a government institution cannot compel or encourage a soldier to attend a religious event. They can offer religious services that enlisted individuals are free to attend, but they cannot use their power of command to spread their religion.
I think you missed my point. I don't have a problem with the military punishing people for not doing something compulsatory. I do have a problem with them making this event compulsatory. Like, I don't care that the punished people for not going, I care that they made them go in the first place, the punishment is kind of besides the point.
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I think you missed my point. I don't have a problem with the military punishing people for not doing something compulsatory. I do have a problem with them making this event compulsatory. Like, I don't care that the punished people for not going, I care that they made them go in the first place, the punishment is kind of besides the point.
Oh, I was just saying that the presence of punishment is what reveals that this was compulsory.
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But after being indoctrinated by government paid authority figures in every school in America that you are a product of random mutation and that therefore there is no God, . . .
This is a long way from my personal experience. The teacher who taught me biology (including evolution) was the adviser to the school bible club.
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