My Kj Problem

[custom36 5]

Amidst the KJo thread below, I played this hand. I'm not proud of how I played it, but I'd like to hear where you think I went wrong...Full Tilt Poker .10/.25 NL 6-MaxCustom Kh Jh (23.75)UTG+1 (29.84)Button (25.00)SB (52.52)BB (27.52)Custom bets 0.75, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, BB callsPot: 2.85Flop: Th 4h JsSB checks, BB bets $1, Custom calls, Button folds, SB raises to $7, BB calls, Custom callsPot: 22.80Turn: 6cSB goes all-in for $44I called on the flop because I was trying to keep everyone else in the pot for my flush draw and wasn't expecting such a strong line from the SB. How do you play this differently? Call or fold the turn?

[Ninja Ace 1]

Auto-topoff please.Preflop is good.On the flop I'd probably raise the blocking bet from the BB smallish (to like $3.50), and instantly fold the the SB's check-raise over 2 players. We do have a combo draw, but we are taking up most of the draws in the SB's range. He's almost never showing up with less than 2 pair here.On the turn you're committed.I'm going to get yelled at, bc we has a draw, good implied odds, and position. But on the turn we're committed.

[shynepo3 0]

does anyone shove on the flop here? i think once the sb takes it to $7, and the bb calls, you are committed then no? you have a ton of equity and i think you shove it now...what turn is going to get you to fold anyways?

[SuperJon 175]

Is this an appropriate range for the SB assuming we somehow got it all in on the flop?Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 19,800 games 0.001 secs 19,800,000 games/secBoard: Th 4h JsDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 45.535% 45.17% 00.37% 8943 73.00 { TT, 44, AhQh, KQo, JTo }Hand 1: 54.465% 54.10% 00.37% 10711 73.00 { KhJh }

[Ninja Ace 1]

Is this an appropriate range for the SB assuming we somehow got it all in on the flop?

The range itself is correct...What I'm worried about is the frequency a player will actually do this in a multiway pot with a draw. Change that from KQo to KQs and watch the equity swing 10%. I mean, basically, you're assuming the player is a good aggressive player. Not the assumption I would make at 25NL.Really though this whole spot is f'd because we didn't raise the blocker on the flop.

[Shark527 0]

The range itself is correct...What I'm worried about is the frequency a player will actually do this in a multiway pot with a draw. Change that from KQo to KQs and watch the equity swing 10%. I mean, basically, you're assuming the player is a good aggressive player. Not the assumption I would make at 25NL.Really though this whole spot is f'd because we didn't raise the blocker on the flop.

OP has the K in his hand so putting KQs in the range is illogical for this situation. I agree with jamming the flop over the raise to $7 and a caller.

[Ninja Ace 1]

OP has the K in his hand so putting KQs in the range is illogical for this situation. I agree with jamming the flop over the raise to $7 and a caller.

hearts are the only suit?

[hartman72 0]

hearts are the only suit?

Why would KQ of clubs change equity 10 percent over KQ off in this hand?

[BaseJester 1]

Why would KQ of clubs change equity 10 percent over KQ off in this hand?

I haven't run this myself, but I suspect the reason that this is a big swing is not because KQs is so much better than KQo. It's because there are only 3 combinations of KQs left but 9 combinations of KQo. The hero has KQo crushed, so those 6 extra hands increases the equity of the hero's hand significantly.

[Biff Goods 0]

Really though this whole spot is f'd because we didn't raise the blocker on the flop.

This is really the answer to the question of posed by the OP. Because we don't raise the blocker bet it completely takes away hope of control we had in this hand. All other opponents are left with good opportunity to put us in tough spots regardless if they know it that they are doing it or not.

[hartman72 0]

I haven't run this myself, but I suspect the reason that this is a big swing is not because KQs is so much better than KQo. It's because there are only 3 combinations of KQs left but 9 combinations of KQo. The hero has KQo crushed, so those 6 extra hands increases the equity of the hero's hand significantly.

Makes sense, thanks

[Ninja Ace 1]

I haven't run this myself, but I suspect the reason that this is a big swing is not because KQs is so much better than KQo. It's because there are only 3 combinations of KQs left but 9 combinations of KQo. The hero has KQo crushed, so those 6 extra hands increases the equity of the hero's hand significantly.

Precisely. The thing that annoys me about stove is I don't feel that it accurately reflects the equity on a range bc you are unable to put in frequencies. My personal feeling is that you don't see enough draws here at this level.Not that I would have gotten away from the hand, since I'd have committed myself by raising the blocker in the first place