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Busted 10th As 2nd Big Stack In Pstars 1.5mil


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Here's a brief summary before I give you the hand info. We'd been 5 handed for a bit and I'm tied for big stack at the table. We're both raising decently often, but if he'd ever get in a hand with me he'd reraise. This time he smooth called, which sent warning bells zooming through my head. Here's the hand - tell me what you think:*********** # 1 **************PokerStars Game #46364153643: Tournament #318020010, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXXIV (125000/250000) - 2010/07/05 1:52:09 ETTable '318020010 454' 9-max Seat #4 is the buttonSeat 1: iSpeeZ (4273130 in chips)Seat 2: JIZOINT (5115257 in chips)Seat 4: Maim911 (8727727 in chips)Seat 5: The Doc (5462992 in chips)Seat 7: KingKaizers (9828212 in chips)iSpeeZ: posts the ante 25000JIZOINT: posts the ante 25000Maim911: posts the ante 25000The Doc: posts the ante 25000KingKaizers: posts the ante 25000The Doc: posts small blind 125000KingKaizers: posts big blind 250000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Maim911 [9d Jh]iSpeeZ: foldsJIZOINT: foldsMaim911: raises 305555 to 555555The Doc: foldsKingKaizers: calls 305555*** FLOP *** [9h 2d 6h]KingKaizers: checksMaim911: bets 650000KingKaizers: raises 805000 to 1455000Maim911: calls 805000*** TURN *** [9h 2d 6h] [9c]JD9712 [observer] said, "gl martin"KingKaizers: bets 1444444Maim911: raises 1444444 to 2888888KingKaizers: raises 3361112 to 6250000Maim911: raises 442172 to 6692172 and is all-inKingKaizers: calls 442172JDAWGXCT [observer] said, "THATS MY TOURNAMENT LIFE!"*** RIVER *** [9h 2d 6h 9c] [Ts]Riverfish132 [observer] said, "sick life."Maim911 said, "****"*** SHOW DOWN ***KingKaizers: shows [6d 6c] (a full house, Sixes full of Nines)Maim911: shows [9d Jh] (three of a kind, Nines)KingKaizers collected 17655454 from potMaim911 finished the tournament in 10th place and received $8400.00.*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 17655454 | Rake 0Board [9h 2d 6h 9c Ts]Seat 1: iSpeeZ folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: JIZOINT folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Maim911 (button) showed [9d Jh] and lost with three of a kind, NinesSeat 5: The Doc (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 7: KingKaizers (big blind) showed [6d 6c] and won (17655454) with a full house, Sixes full of NinesOuch...my thought process was that he was slow playing AA or KK preflop, or called with mid pp such as TT. We were both fairly wary of each other here, and I smelled a trap when he reraised that much on the flop. I called for odds that if I hit a 9 or J my hand would be well disguised with a flush draw on the board and I don't think he put me on either of those hands. I believe he put me on AK flush draw or a hand like JJ - in which case my 'read' of AA or KK would make a lot of sense.The only way I see out of this hand is on the turn when he instantly raised my reraise to allin - he wasn't afraid of the 9. That meant he either just didn't think I had a 9 (likely) or he had a set. I didn't think he'd play a set so quickly, and it felt to me like a big overpair. Any thoughts? I've been obsessing about this hand since it happened, and I just don't know if I could lay it down with a 15million pot and only 3.5 mil chips remaining considering how many hands I could beat.

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Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t125000/t250000 Blinds + t25000 - 5 players - View hand 789087The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterUTG: t4273130 M = 8.55CO: t5115257 M = 10.23Hero (BTN): t8727727 M = 17.46SB: t5462992 M = 10.93BB: t9828212 M = 19.66Pre Flop: (t500000) Hero is BTN with 9 :club: J :qh2 folds, Hero raises to t555555, 1 fold, BB calls t305555Flop: (t1361110) 9 :jh 2 :ts 6 :D(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets t650000, BB raises to t1455000, Hero calls t805000Turn: (t4271110) 9 :D(2 players)BB bets t1444444, Hero raises to t2888888, BB raises to t6250000, Hero raises to t6692172 all in, BB calls t442172River: (t17655454) T :3h(2 players - 1 is all in)Final Pot: t17655454Hero shows 9 :4h J :D (three of a kind, Nines)BB shows 6 :5c 6 :D (a full house, Sixes full of Nines)BB wins t17655454tough beat

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I'm not sure I'd be raising his turn bet, but once you do and he raises you again, you have to dump this. You're basically hoping he has something like 97, 98, 109
You're discounting the play that he smooth called my bet, which he NEVER DOES. It's always a 3bet...so why smooth call here? To me this screamed high pair and trap. Also, why is he being aggressive on the flop with a set? It's 9 high and likely to completely miss me - why reraise it here and scare out a potential payoff? It doesn't make sense.You are right that the 4bet on the turn was weird, but it does fit in nicely with the overpair story. I did hesitate and consider the set possibility after his 4bet jam - but wouldn't he also do the same thing if he felt I was on AKs flush draw? or a medium pair like JJ? I know he certainly didn't put me on a 9, so his view of me was rather weak. Why bet so hard unless you're trying to protect your hand? If he really did have a set, and he filled up on the turn, why was he still worried about the flush? Really, the way he bet post-flop made very little sense for a set, and loads of sense (including preflop actions) for a big overpair.Then factor in all the different hands I can beat: 89 could be likely, 9T I also beat, and I didn't put him on A9. I don't think he'd call with a 9 in any other hand, so I was safe there. Again, any overpair I now have dominated.Basically - a set didn't make sense
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Basically, your like every new poster...you have a HH question, a very solid player gives you advice, and you just shot it down. pretty standard fcp

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Your opponent played this hand perfectly in my opinion. It completely leveled the hell out of you obviously1.) Your preflop raise was fine if the table had been tight and not playing back at you. However, you two are very deep, so I don't think it would be in his best interest to flat hands 1010+, AK, AQ etc etc. A middle pair is a very reasonable flat in this spot.2.) Your C-bet on the flop was a good c-bet3.) When he raises you, you've now entered a very ugly spot. Given his acceptable range here, (which I guess for your sake we can include overpairs here), a draw is extremely likely, as well as a set, and overpairs if you wish. If you feel that he is capable of flatting overpairs preflop then why the hell aren't you folding in this spot? You're basically hoping he's doing this with an outright bluff or 78 because your equity isn't great against a high flush draw/ combo draw. There are just so many combination of hands that have you crushed in this spot, and very few that you are way ahead of. His raise is fairly small as well, which is another thing you should have taken into account.4.) Look at his bet sizing on the turn, it's EXTREMELY small. Generally, that is one of two things. Either he's an extreme leveler and trying to make you believe that he has a really strong hand with the small bet size, or he has a hand that has you crushed. These are things you have to take into account. His flop raise was even somewhat small, which means he wanted you to stay in the hand. He has a set, he's still a decent favorite to a flush draw, it's in his best interest to keep you in the hand. 5.)When you raise the turn, you're basically signaling to your opponent that you have a nine or are trying to pull off some stupid bluff. If he DID have an overpair in this spot, I don't think he'd be reraising you, that's a horrible card to reraise someone if they had an overpair. So, limit his range now. 1.) bluffs Semibluffs looking to fold you off draws or smaller pairs, or he has a fullhouse or a 9 here (I still think we can include weaker 9's in his range). Since you've hit your third 9 on the turn I hate folding but at the same time you're basically hoping he checks back on the river here because you're never confident you have the best hand.Judging from your post, you were too concerned with this guy and how much you could play back at him. If you rationally think about this hand, you had many opportunities to save yourself chips. It's a 5 handed table of a Sunday major and you have a large stack, there were plenty of better opportunities to prey on the smaller stacks.

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Your opponent played this hand perfectly in my opinion. It completely leveled the hell out of you obviously1.) Your preflop raise was fine if the table had been tight and not playing back at you. However, you two are very deep, so I don't think it would be in his best interest to flat hands 1010+, AK, AQ etc etc. A middle pair is a very reasonable flat in this spot.2.) Your C-bet on the flop was a good c-bet3.) When he raises you, you've now entered a very ugly spot. Given his acceptable range here, (which I guess for your sake we can include overpairs here), a draw is extremely likely, as well as a set, and overpairs if you wish. If you feel that he is capable of flatting overpairs preflop then why the hell aren't you folding in this spot? You're basically hoping he's doing this with an outright bluff or 78 because your equity isn't great against a high flush draw/ combo draw. There are just so many combination of hands that have you crushed in this spot, and very few that you are way ahead of. His raise is fairly small as well, which is another thing you should have taken into account.4.) Look at his bet sizing on the turn, it's EXTREMELY small. Generally, that is one of two things. Either he's an extreme leveler and trying to make you believe that he has a really strong hand with the small bet size, or he has a hand that has you crushed. These are things you have to take into account. His flop raise was even somewhat small, which means he wanted you to stay in the hand. He has a set, he's still a decent favorite to a flush draw, it's in his best interest to keep you in the hand. 5.)When you raise the turn, you're basically signaling to your opponent that you have a nine or are trying to pull off some stupid bluff. If he DID have an overpair in this spot, I don't think he'd be reraising you, that's a horrible card to reraise someone if they had an overpair. So, limit his range now. 1.) bluffs Semibluffs looking to fold you off draws or smaller pairs, or he has a fullhouse or a 9 here (I still think we can include weaker 9's in his range). Since you've hit your third 9 on the turn I hate folding but at the same time you're basically hoping he checks back on the river here because you're never confident you have the best hand.Judging from your post, you were too concerned with this guy and how much you could play back at him. If you rationally think about this hand, you had many opportunities to save yourself chips. It's a 5 handed table of a Sunday major and you have a large stack, there were plenty of better opportunities to prey on the smaller stacks.
Thats very good and well thought out advice donk4life. It seems rare on this site nowadays to get great stuff like this which was the whole reason I started reading FCP every day, so thank you
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Yeah Donk4life, I agree with you here. I was way overthinking the situation and my reraise on the turn was hasty - I wanted to get him out of the hand as the pot was large enough to just want to take it down. When he reraised me again, my gut told me I was in trouble. A call would have sufficed and then see what he does on the river just in case he did have a set, which would take me out of the FT (as it unfortunately did). Live and learn I guess...it didn't help that I was up for 35 hours straight to that point either, but I'm not here to make excuses.In the end a simple call on the turn and check or possibly call (pending the bet size) would have been the appropriate move. I doomed myself. Thanks for the replies guys.

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Yeah Donk4life, I agree with you here. I was way overthinking the situation and my reraise on the turn was hasty - I wanted to get him out of the hand as the pot was large enough to just want to take it down. When he reraised me again, my gut told me I was in trouble. A call would have sufficed and then see what he does on the river just in case he did have a set, which would take me out of the FT (as it unfortunately did). Live and learn I guess...it didn't help that I was up for 35 hours straight to that point either, but I'm not here to make excuses.In the end a simple call on the turn and check or possibly call (pending the bet size) would have been the appropriate move. I doomed myself. Thanks for the replies guys.
i mean you spazzed in thinking you were going to ship it. it happens.
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Your opponent played this hand perfectly in my opinion. It completely leveled the hell out of you obviously1.) Your preflop raise was fine if the table had been tight and not playing back at you. However, you two are very deep, so I don't think it would be in his best interest to flat hands 1010+, AK, AQ etc etc. A middle pair is a very reasonable flat in this spot.2.) Your C-bet on the flop was a good c-bet3.) When he raises you, you've now entered a very ugly spot. Given his acceptable range here, (which I guess for your sake we can include overpairs here), a draw is extremely likely, as well as a set, and overpairs if you wish. If you feel that he is capable of flatting overpairs preflop then why the hell aren't you folding in this spot? You're basically hoping he's doing this with an outright bluff or 78 because your equity isn't great against a high flush draw/ combo draw. There are just so many combination of hands that have you crushed in this spot, and very few that you are way ahead of. His raise is fairly small as well, which is another thing you should have taken into account.4.) Look at his bet sizing on the turn, it's EXTREMELY small. Generally, that is one of two things. Either he's an extreme leveler and trying to make you believe that he has a really strong hand with the small bet size, or he has a hand that has you crushed. These are things you have to take into account. His flop raise was even somewhat small, which means he wanted you to stay in the hand. He has a set, he's still a decent favorite to a flush draw, it's in his best interest to keep you in the hand. 5.)When you raise the turn, you're basically signaling to your opponent that you have a nine or are trying to pull off some stupid bluff. If he DID have an overpair in this spot, I don't think he'd be reraising you, that's a horrible card to reraise someone if they had an overpair. So, limit his range now. 1.) bluffs Semibluffs looking to fold you off draws or smaller pairs, or he has a fullhouse or a 9 here (I still think we can include weaker 9's in his range). Since you've hit your third 9 on the turn I hate folding but at the same time you're basically hoping he checks back on the river here because you're never confident you have the best hand.Judging from your post, you were too concerned with this guy and how much you could play back at him. If you rationally think about this hand, you had many opportunities to save yourself chips. It's a 5 handed table of a Sunday major and you have a large stack, there were plenty of better opportunities to prey on the smaller stacks.
Delicious post.I know it's not proper strat, but if I'm a top stack on the FT buble of the SM, my ass is making that FT. Even if I give up a little equity to another large stack. Tough break tho man.
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wug thoughts on checking back flop
Not a fan of it imoedit: that was just pretty vague. I think our hand is too marginal to be checking this back and pretty much any picture card that hits is goign to suck on the turn.
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Well it's villain dependent, but I think when we know villains been aggressively 3 betting us pre, he can probably somewhat read board texture and know this is a great flop to c/r us with when he has air. There are a lot of bad turn cards for our hand, but if we check back flop we control the pot size a lot more and then we can just call/call on most turns and rivers, even if an overcard or a flush comes. Obviously it makes the hand more difficult to play because we have to start analysing certain ranges and how different cards hit that range, but I think it could well be more profitable in this kind of spot. Obviously sometimes we call two streets and we're wrong and we feel silly for letting QJ get there or something but I think he's going to mindlessly barrel this spot a ton. When we cbet, what are we trying to get value from? Obviously there are worse hands that call, but quite a few of them c/r (flush draws) a decent amount and all of a sudden we're blown off our hand. What's our plan when we call a c/r for most turn cards? Again we're literally hoping for a blank turn (similar to checking back flop) but suddenly villains range isn't as wide and weak and there are a lot more chips in the pot when our range is kinda capped at a one pair type hand.

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I'm gonna agree with Babylon here in this situation I think checking back the flop is a more rational approach. Controlling the potsize against a bigger and aggressive stack seems like the best way to avoid a catastrophe such as this one. Given were going to lose a chunk of our stack on turn betting in this particular hand but there's just no way I want to play a huge pot with j9 on that flop at that stage. Yes were probably ahead but the safest way to get chips from an aggressive villain is to just let him barrel into you. I just don't think villain is folding this flop very often so if a hand catches up its either gonna catch up with no additional chips in the pot if we check back, or with a substantial amount of chips with or bet and potentially villains check raise.

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I can die happy now that somebody has agreed with me! ty
If I agree with you does that change things?
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