Hand I Took A Lot Of Flack For Today

[TwstdWrstr 10]

My head hurts now.

Something has to be wrong when tyler and urbz are agreeing on something

this topic is a great read.

this forum is still out of control

I haven't decided whether I should be tilted or amused by reading this thread.

+1This is by far the best non-<name redacted> driven thread in ages

[JustLikeNegs 1]

1) Open shove2) Raise 2.5/Call BB's shove3) Flat and call a shove/see a flop

3! pick 3!!!

[tbrick412 0]

+1This is by far the best non-<name redacted> driven thread in ages

wow a quintuple quote, a great thread gets even better!

[TwstdWrstr 10]

wow a quintuple quote, a great thread gets even better!

I never quite understood why correct grammar is "quintuple" when we use a "pent" prefix, i.e. pentagram, pentagon, pentadactyl for almost everything else.

[king_tanner 84]

****ers

[babylondonks 5]

quinella tho

[Mercury69 3]

<sigh> I give up. The internet fags win.

[JustLikeNegs 1]

<sigh> I give up. The internet fags win.

no need to be like that. i liked option 3!

[Mercury69 3]

no need to be like that. i liked option 3!

lol...it's an amuse-bouche of a line...

[JustLikeNegs 1]

lol...it's an amuse-bouche of a line...

:/

[Balloon guy 158]

I think Mercury got more flack than the OP ever dreamed of.

[donk4life 34]

I think we prefer the term "Internet Homosexuals".

[JustLikeNegs 1]

I think we prefer the term "Internet Homosexuals".

weird. bcos i like the word fag

[grocery_mony 8]

[Ship_itt 0]

<sigh> I give up. The internet fags win.

i thought this was funny bc you have 12k+ postsbut anyway, not trying to be a prick...but do you honestly think limping in this spot is an option? like, ever? im just curious.

[Mercury69 3]

i thought this was funny bc you have 12k+ postsbut anyway, not trying to be a prick...but do you honestly think limping in this spot is an option? like, ever? im just curious.

Hardly ever, except when you know it will induce a raise over which you can shove, which is the principal point of the matter. I think anyone with AQ in this spot would be looking to get it all in. If you have a "history" with the BB, you'd have a better idea of what would induce a shove/raise, so a limp isn't completely out of the question, it's just that it could backfire on you in more ways than the other options. Part of this discussion should have included analysis of lines that, on the surface, "look" like mistakes that will induce a mistake from villain, which is why I advocate consideration for all possible lines and not eliminatiing lines that seem foolish.I still like a shove, as it could be perceived as a panic steal, I suppose. Don't you want to make your oppoent think you're on a straight steal? If BB has a real hand, fine it's a race. If he calls with ATC, you're a small to big favorite (optimal). If he folds, you pick up the blinds. People can debate the 19 BB vs M of 8 factor all they want, but there is a lot of info missing from any single hand analysis.Min-raise (to induce a re-raise or shove by the BB) could easily be flatted by the BB, at which point you have more chips invested than a limp and now your opponent has 3 more cards and you still have no idea where you are, so you're stuck with c-bet/shoving the flop, unless you check/shove against a BB bet and he still could have you beat because you let him see a cheap flop.Part of what I am saying is that this is not as cut and dried as some people are saying. The assumption that the BB will RR/shove over your "standard" raise is kind of silly and to use the undetermined action of what you THINK your opponent SHOULD do as the fulcrum of your argument is even more silly.

[nutzzcase 0]

I'm enjoying this thread.

[Mercury69 3]

I'm enjoying this thread.

I am enjoying your sig :-)

[Ship_itt 0]

Hardly ever, except when you know it will induce a raise over which you can shove, which is the principal point of the matter. I think anyone with AQ in this spot would be looking to get it all in. If you have a "history" with the BB, you'd have a better idea of what would induce a shove/raise, so a limp isn't completely out of the question, it's just that it could backfire on you in more ways than the other options. Part of this discussion should have included analysis of lines that, on the surface, "look" like mistakes that will induce a mistake from villain, which is why I advocate consideration for all possible lines and not eliminatiing lines that seem foolish.I still like a shove, as it could be perceived as a panic steal, I suppose. Don't you want to make your oppoent think you're on a straight steal? If BB has a real hand, fine it's a race. If he calls with ATC, you're a small to big favorite (optimal). If he folds, you pick up the blinds. People can debate the 19 BB vs M of 8 factor all they want, but there is a lot of info missing from any single hand analysis.Min-raise (to induce a re-raise or shove by the BB) could easily be flatted by the BB, at which point you have more chips invested than a limp and now your opponent has 3 more cards and you still have no idea where you are, so you're stuck with c-bet/shoving the flop, unless you check/shove against a BB bet and he still could have you beat because you let him see a cheap flop.Part of what I am saying is that this is not as cut and dried as some people are saying. The assumption that the BB will RR/shove over your "standard" raise is kind of silly and to use the undetermined action of what you THINK your opponent SHOULD do as the fulcrum of your argument is even more silly.

do you play poker?this resoning is so flawed in so many spots i dont know where to begin to explain to you how TERRIBLE your line of thinking is sir. Im not trying to be rude or start attacking you like everyone else, but this is just terrible game theory. I would assume you are a losing mtt player with this post alone.

[CoolHandKai 0]

do you play poker?this resoning is so flawed in so many spots i dont know where to begin to explain to you how TERRIBLE your line of thinking is sir. Im not trying to be rude or start attacking you like everyone else, but this is just terrible game theory. I would assume you are a losing mtt player with this post alone.

I'm surprised that the underlying statement to take opponent's tendencies into account and to mix up play receives such an amount of vitriol. Why are people even playing, if it's all about botting?

[Mercury69 3]

do you play poker?this resoning is so flawed in so many spots i dont know where to begin to explain to you how TERRIBLE your line of thinking is sir. Im not trying to be rude or start attacking you like everyone else, but this is just terrible game theory. I would assume you are a losing mtt player with this post alone.

That's fine, w/e. It's pretty easy to say someone made a great play by shoving J6 on the button and winning or say "tough luck, BBFIDTS" when you shove 6 BB's with AA and get called by 56 suited and lose. While I do not claim to be a winning player (and my stats would not support any claim to the contrary anyway), I feel as though I usually make very good decisions in the context of MTT's. To be a winning MTT player, you need a lot of variables on your side, amirite? Some of those variable have eluded me, so I'm hoping you'll elaborate on your vague statement.Would you mind pointing out the "flawed game theory"? Is it because I'm not applying a "standard" approach someone wrote about in a book? Is it because you think this is how I would play this hand? All I'm doing is looking at possibilities with limited information and making suggestions. What, exactly, is wrong here?PS: Starting off your post with "Do you play poker" is actually kind of rude, contrary to your disclaimer a little later.

[lurbz 2]

I'm surprised that the underlying statement to take opponent's tendencies into account and to mix up play receives such an amount of vitriol. Why are people even playing, if it's all about botting?

Ya, except that Mercury has no reads or info on villain to be discussing anything other than EV optimal lines.

[lurbz 2]

That's fine, w/e. It's pretty easy to say someone made a great play by shoving J6 on the button and winning or say "tough luck, BBFIDTS" when you shove 6 BB's with AA and get called by 56 suited and lose. While I do not claim to be a winning player (and my stats would not support any claim to the contrary anyway), I feel as though I usually make very good decisions in the context of MTT's. To be a winning MTT player, you need a lot of variables on your side, amirite? Some of those variable have eluded me, so I'm hoping you'll elaborate on your vague statement.Would you mind pointing out the "flawed game theory"? Is it because I'm not applying a "standard" approach someone wrote about in a book? Is it because you think this is how I would play this hand? All I'm doing is looking at possibilities with limited information and making suggestions. What, exactly, is wrong here?PS: Starting off your post with "Do you play poker" is actually kind of rude, contrary to your disclaimer a little later.

are you dscoot's cousin?

[Mercury69 3]

Ya, except that Mercury has no reads or info on villain to be discussing anything other than EV optimal lines.

Why not up your "Nice Lurbz" dosage, dude? Stop being a dick and get back to making contributions.

[Arsenic 0]

You played the hand terribly, everybody knows that AQ suited is never good at PokerStars..... unlesss you flop the nuts flush...