hartman72 0 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Villain is an old Vietnamese guy, seems very tight/passive~600Hero coversMP 1 limps, MP2 limps, SB (villain) raises to 10, BB (hero) reraises to 30 with AQdd). Limpers fold, Villain calls.Flop: A Q 3 Villain checks, Hero bets 50 Villain callsTurn: QVillain bets 100, Hero calls.River: 7Villain checks, Hero bets 225 Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Looks really standard/good! NHI may be careful 3betting "tight/passive" guys with AQ in full-ring games... you are in position, so I like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 what was the question? Link to post Share on other sites
hartman72 0 Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share Posted July 1, 2010 Line check Link to post Share on other sites
hartman72 0 Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share Posted July 1, 2010 Line check Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 tbh i'm not sure why you're questioning your play here... it's perfect... i mean unless this is a disguised bb post i really don't understand why you're not confident in this onei mean, maybe you're questioning if you could have gotten more value... but you can't given the dry nature of the board Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 tbh i'm not sure why you're questioning your play here... it's perfect... i mean unless this is a disguised bb post i really don't understand why you're not confident in this onei mean, maybe you're questioning if you could have gotten more value... but you can't given the dry nature of the board^ time saver Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 bet bigger on the turn and over shove jam river imo. and you may wanna bet slightly bigger ( but not much more) on the flop. you need to be getting you stack in on the river in NLHE with a boat like this every single time. so what villain is a litttle tight, he may stack off. betting smaller cuts into our long term value imo. it is rare to get gifts like this on the turn. get your freaking stack in on the end. period. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 bet bigger on the turn and over shove jam river imo. and you may wanna bet slightly bigger ( but not much more) on the flop. you need to be getting you stack in on the river in NLHE with a boat like this every single time. so what villain is a litttle tight, he may stack off. betting smaller cuts into our long term value imo. it is rare to get gifts like this on the turn. get your freaking stack in on the end. period.I disagree... we kill our overall value trying to force a stackoff that isn't there. If the villain has a hand that can stack off to us it's getting in regardless. I mean, if he was unable to get a 100BB stack in there is reason to be yelling at him... but 300bbs deep you shouldn't really ever expect to get stacks in without postflop raising.I mean, tightness of the player aside... how many hands can really ship on this board? Unless he's clinically insane not many. Even idiots can figure out they need to fold AK if we fire uberhard. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 dude i used to think that, then i started moving in on rivers like this regardless of my stack and was amazed at how often i still got called. If villain is calling close to a PSB they are most likely calling a push. And we make an ass ton more when they do, even if they fold a bit more. If you have DC look up Bulgawhale, this is one of his biggest points: manage the pot to get your stack in, you will nearly double your profit if you just shove. I mean i tried it out and it works so well. give it a try. People call way too much. even in like 50nl. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 I disagree... we kill our overall value trying to force a stackoff that isn't there. If the villain has a hand that can stack off to us it's getting in regardless. I mean, if he was unable to get a 100BB stack in there is reason to be yelling at him... but 300bbs deep you shouldn't really ever expect to get stacks in without postflop raising.I mean, tightness of the player aside... how many hands can really ship on this board? Unless he's clinically insane not many. Even idiots can figure out they need to fold AK if we fire uberhard. AK isnt the only thing, pocket 7's and pocket 3's and the naked case Q. granted i dont think he has a boat that often, people for some reason get spazz with Ak a lot. even a tight 1-2 live player could easily suck enough to ship here. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 I really don't know how often another boat isn't raising to get the money in... not very, i would say dude i used to think that, then i started moving in on rivers like this regardless of my stack and was amazed at how often i still got called. If villain is calling close to a PSB they are most likely calling a push. And we make an ass ton more when they do, even if they fold a bit more. If you have DC look up Bulgawhale, this is one of his biggest points: manage the pot to get your stack in, you will nearly double your profit if you just shove. I mean i tried it out and it works so well. give it a try. People call way too much. even in like 50nl.I'd like several non-cooler examples that are 300BB deep or close.with close to 100BB stacks yes, it is easy to overship in a lot of scenarios... I Ryan Howard a lot in the right spots. The problem is we're three whole buyins deep in this scenario Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 I really don't know how often another boat isn't raising to get the money in... not very, i would sayI'd like several non-cooler examples that are 300BB deep or close.with close to 100BB stacks yes, it is easy to overship in a lot of scenarios... I Ryan Howard a lot in the right spots. The problem is we're three whole buyins deep in this scenariothere is almost 240 in the pot, and we have about 350ish left effective, not too massive an overshove. My point is if villain is calling a PSB and leaving like 100 behind he is calling his whole stack off. I mean i here what you are saying but these are crappy live players who like to go on instinct and ignore pot odds all the time, punish that leak. Link to post Share on other sites
hartman72 0 Posted July 3, 2010 Author Share Posted July 3, 2010 Rumsey,In live poker, villains are WAY more likely to call a 75 dollar bet on the river when they have ~200 left, than calling a 200 dollar bet. Online might be different, but I think you're a little off base in live scenarios. Link to post Share on other sites
shynepo3 0 Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 Rumsey,In live poker, villains are WAY more likely to call a 75 dollar bet on the river when they have ~200 left, than calling a 200 dollar bet. Online might be different, but I think you're a little off base in live scenarios.this is completely true....re loading or topping up to max isn't common at all...to them, they are still in the game with part of their buy in......we've all heard how someone was down to 50 and grinded it back to 500 for a winning session in live... Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Make it 220-240 on the turn. A tight/passive player just donked into you when the board paired. If he's playing out of character with a straight draw or whatever, he's likely shutting down anyway. If he's as passive as you say, he likely won't bet an ace or queen on the river. Make it 240 and then put him in for a less than half pot bet on the river. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 I'm not sure I'd 3-bet preflop. What the range of your villain after he raises preflop? If he has a middle pair and the flop comes with an over to his pair, will he give it up on the flop when you c-bet? What if you flat, float the flop with an over to his pair, and bet the turn? Link to post Share on other sites
hartman72 0 Posted July 4, 2010 Author Share Posted July 4, 2010 I'm not sure I'd 3-bet preflop. What the range of your villain after he raises preflop? If he has a middle pair and the flop comes with an over to his pair, will he give it up on the flop when you c-bet? What if you flat, float the flop with an over to his pair, and bet the turn?77-AA, Ak, Aq, Aj.Most likely.I like to build bigger pots against tight players because they fold so easily if they miss, with the exception of QQ, KK or AA. When he didn't 4 bet me preflop, I knew I'd get him to fold unless he flopped a set. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 77-AA, Ak, Aq, Aj.Most likely.I like to build bigger pots against tight players because they fold so easily if they miss, with the exception of QQ, KK or AA. When he didn't 4 bet me preflop, I knew I'd get him to fold unless he flopped a set.Do you think you can show a profit here with any two cards? I mean, there's a card removal factor but basically you're playing a straight bluff here. Is there anything you flat call preflop?Then when the flop comes you apparently bet for value with two pair. So you don't really expect him to fold everything except a set, right? What are you looking for value from on the flop? Link to post Share on other sites
hartman72 0 Posted July 4, 2010 Author Share Posted July 4, 2010 Value I get post flop is just a bonus. I don't expect to get value post flop, that's why I like getting more money in preflop when tight players WILL call. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Value I get post flop is just a bonus. I don't expect to get value post flop, that's why I like getting more money in preflop when tight players WILL call.I'm not really disagreeing with your line. I just think there's a little fuzz in the statement that he folds everything that's not a set. Otherwise, you'd want to bet far less if at all on the flop, being called only by hands that beat you. Link to post Share on other sites
hartman72 0 Posted July 4, 2010 Author Share Posted July 4, 2010 I know I made a pretty broad statement. Of course villain will call with 99 on a 3 3 4 board, but he will fold it to one or two barrels on a 4 8 Q board. Playing more agressive preflop makes up when villain does make a hand....I usually bet the same amount whether its for value/bluffing....suppose that may be a leak of mine Link to post Share on other sites
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