Game Of Thrones

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I think people overestimate how complex everything is. Yes, you will be missing details of the overall story of the book, but this isn't a book. The details really aren't necessary for the enjoyment of the show. It's going to be incredibly difficult to have a TV show with this amount of characters, to make them have any kind of depth at all, but the show has been doing a good job of it so far. I think it will end up that the characters for the most part will be fairly 1 dimensional, and come to symbolize concepts, like honor, corruption, greed, rather than fully fleshed characters. Which truthfully, is fine in a fantasy epic. If you wanted to do a small, character driven story, this was the wrong book to use as a source material. I think one of the more interesting things about the book, is how fleshed out and non-one dimensional martin makes all of them. But ultimately, I think that is it's Achilles heel. The books spend too much time developing a 100 different characters, and not enough time moving the plot along. I think book four was terrible, and I had zero interest in it, didn't finish it, and I think the series is spinning out of control in many different directions, when it should be drawing towards some sort of conclusion. It will be very interesting for me to see how the series deals with the ever increasing complexity of the story. Ultimately, I think this is going to be a better TV show, than the books are books.

[wsox8 10]

OMG I WANT TO RESPOND TO THIS

Don't fucking touch on this, Steven.cursing makes me sound ANGRIER.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

OMG I WANT TO RESPOND TO THIS

pm me, i need to know.

[Theraflu 1,035]

Well, have it your way, but I don't think my comments in either thread merited the replies I received from either party. I bitch slap you all, like Tyrion did to that whiny little prince.

[Allie 0]

Well, here's another annoying **** who doesn't have the time of day for me. **** you, too, arsehole. You completely misread my posts as "sweeping proclamations" rather than "cynically hopeful".

You left out the "asinine" part.sidenote: I always think it's weird when guys call females "arseholes". (actually, I think arsehole in itself is a strange word; why not just say asshole?) Anyway, I prefer "bitch", thank you very much.

I think people overestimate how complex everything is. Yes, you will be missing details of the overall story of the book, but this isn't a book. The details really aren't necessary for the enjoyment of the show. It's going to be incredibly difficult to have a TV show with this amount of characters, to make them have any kind of depth at all, but the show has been doing a good job of it so far. I think it will end up that the characters for the most part will be fairly 1 dimensional, and come to symbolize concepts, like honor, corruption, greed, rather than fully fleshed characters. Which truthfully, is fine in a fantasy epic. If you wanted to do a small, character driven story, this was the wrong book to use as a source material. I think one of the more interesting things about the book, is how fleshed out and non-one dimensional martin makes all of them. But ultimately, I think that is it's Achilles heel. The books spend too much time developing a 100 different characters, and not enough time moving the plot along. I think book four was terrible, and I had zero interest in it, didn't finish it, and I think the series is spinning out of control in many different directions, when it should be drawing towards some sort of conclusion. It will be very interesting for me to see how the series deals with the ever increasing complexity of the story. Ultimately, I think this is going to be a better TV show, than the books are books.

I agree with much of this, and respectfully disagree with parts of it. For those that watch the TV series, and never read the books, it will stand on it’s own as a highly entertaining TV show based on the high production value, first-rate acting, and the basic plot – which is very engaging. For those that have read the books, I believe most would have gone into the viewing of the series, knowing full well that it couldn’t take on all the complexities of the book. I think we all expected it to be a really good one-dimensional portrayal of the books, which it seems to have lived up to, so far.So, I agree with your first paragraph. Where I disagree, is with respect to book 4.....although I can totally see why you didn’t like it. I was somewhat disappointed with it at first too, but by the end could see where he might be going with it. My feeling is that he went off on a tangent for a reason (admittedly a long and convoluted tangent), and the plots will come around to mesh in book 5. Or, I’m completely dead wrong, and he’s going senile. And I definitely don’t agree that the series will be a better TV show, than the books are books. I think they’ll both be really good, on their own merits, for what they are. But, I’d take the books any day of the week, and twice on Sundays!

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Disclaimer: I have not read the books nor have I seen the show.I read that books four and five were originally written as one book, but it was too long, so he split it into two books with the southern characters in book four and the northern characters in book five. If that's true, I can see why four would seem incomplete.I'm probably going to read these books and watch the show eventually. I wonder how many books I can get through before it's available on DVD?

[SBriand 4]

I wizzed through books 1-3 in about 2.5 months. But I also have about 8 hours a day to spend reading. Book 4 I started and then it did slow down a bit and I took about a 2 week break. It just wasn't doing it for me after about 200 pages. Then I picked it up again and shortly after it picked up and ended up being really good imo. And SkelJel is correct in that books 4 and 5 were to be one ridic large book. Book 5 I heard will run the same time line as book 4 but you will see what the other characters were doing. But I could be wrong. I think I liked Book 4 simply for getting to know Jamie better. I was not a fan in the first 2 books but book 3 and then def book 4 made me really enjoy his character more.

[Theraflu 1,035]

I wizzed through books 1-3 in about 2.5 months. But I also have about 8 hours a day to spend reading. Book 4 I started and then it did slow down a bit and I took about a 2 week break. It just wasn't doing it for me after about 200 pages. Then I picked it up again and shortly after it picked up and ended up being really good imo. And SkelJel is correct in that books 4 and 5 were to be one ridic large book. Book 5 I heard will run the same time line as book 4 but you will see what the other characters were doing. But I could be wrong. I think I liked Book 4 simply for getting to know Jamie better. I was not a fan in the first 2 books but book 3 and then def book 4 made me really enjoy his character more.

If Dance of Dragons (book 5) gets released in July, it will be longer than Storm of Swords was, which is the longest book in the series. About 2/3 of the book is catching up on all the characters that weren't in book 4, and the last third is"new" stuff as far as timeline goes, including an Arya chapter and some other viewpoints that were only in Crows. He's also pulled a handful of chapters that will be present in book 6, if we ever get there.Crows isn't as good a book for a couple reasons. The expanded characters kind of suck because it makes the series seem too big, but he also kind of ruined the best character of Dorne. I don't know how anyone would have been opposed to a Red Viper POV, but making his old home a setting after the Gregor disaster just really sucks, when he was clearly such a fucking badass, and his brother seems to have quite the large, patient vagina. I like the overall idea of Dorne, but the characters he has in it are overall too bland. One of the Dragons POV's is the Martell son who has been "abroad," so that should be interesting, but wasting the Red Viper the way he did is maddening.

[Jadaki 0]

They have mentioned Robb's names a few times in the show, at first when King Robert arrives and meets all the kids and again in a scene with his mother. Theon looks way to much like Robb and I've seen it causing confusion for people new to the show. Of the Stark kids Rickon is the one that's being ignored, but that's pretty much to be expected.I don't share Big-D's concerns about the characters being one dimensional throughout the show. Without posting spoiler stuff about the story lets just say I'm confident that the people playing the roles that are the characters who have the most depth are more than capable of handling their characters growth.I don't really read this forum much anymore, but if anyone has questions or wants something clarified spoiler or spoiler free I'd be happy to help either in the thread or by PM.

[runthemover 39]

Now that's fairly acceptable and kind of funny, because I will cop to (and have already done so) being comically uninformed about the series and books, etc. Nice work, Troll Jelly.At the same time, those of you who got their knickers in a twist over my posts may have sociological issues. I mean, do you realise how idiotic it is to go batshit crazy that, God forbid, someone doesn't have the same knowledge level as you about something you've clearly obsessed over? I'm also guessing you hate it when someone treats you like garbage over something similar.

you know nothing Mercury69I'm watching the show and enjoying it quite a lot but I feel like the book is so much better it's not even funny. BTW, I'm not sure when anyone has used the phrase "it's not even funny" when something was remotely funny. Don't get me wrong. nonsense is my sixth sense. Just like when you're under the bridge and someone's screaming "Michael Michael Motorcycle" and you're trying to find that rusty razor of yours, I'm off to the pet store.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Disclaimer: I have not read the books nor have I seen the show.I read that books four and five were originally written as one book, but it was too long, so he split it into two books with the southern characters in book four and the northern characters in book five. If that's true, I can see why four would seem incomplete.

That is not the issue I have with it. I'll tell you the issue I have with it, but It contains major spoilers. So read at your own risk..

The problem I have with book four, really starts in book three. Book three really should have been brining the series towards an end, brining it closer to the inevitable conflict. But at the end of book three, the starks get slaughtered, arya leaves the continent, tyrion kills his father and he and samsa run off,and Stannis appears on the wall to do battle with the evil of the north. So, instead of resolving things, it just sets a whole bunch of new things into motion. Which annoyed me, and much of it seemed like to just extend the series. but then, book four starts,a nd a whole bunch of new characters are introduced. The format of the books is, that each chapter is titled after a character, and it's done through that character's POV. Over the course of the First three books, there were several characters that were used from their POV. Tyrion, Eddard stark, Various stark children, Daenarys. It's a very clever device, and you get very attached to several of the characters. Book 4 has NONE of those characters, advances none of those story lines ( except arya's) Instead it introduces new characters, and takes the POV of old characters that previously were not the focus of the chapters. As I see it, there are 3 major thrusts of the story line. THe stuff going on North of the wall. The stuff going on with Daenarys, and the conflict in the 7 kingdoms. Book four wholly ignored the stuff north of the wall, and with Daenarys, and only had to do with the conflict in the 7 kingdoms, but rather than bringing that conflict into any sort of resolution, it split it off in a bunch of different directions, and introduced about a dozen new subplots, that at this point in the story, I could not bring myself to care about. I did not end up finishing the book, and I am not likely to read book five now. As I understand it, book 5 is NOT going to resolve these new directions that the author went into, but instead is going to be about all the story lines book 4 didn't cover ( and also Arya) So there won't be any resolution of story lines, or melding of them, until at least book six. And who knows how much longer he's going to do this split story thing. All I know is, there is now half the massive amount of story lines in these books, that I don't care at all about.I don't think novels, fantasy series, should be like soap operas. I do not think they should extend in ever increasing complexity, just for complexities sake. I don't think they should be extended, just for extension's sake, so the author can make some extra cash. My largest experience with this, was with the wheel of time, which I enjoyed at first, but as I read the books they got more and more unreadable, more and more complex, more and more story lines.. and it became obvious after several books, that the books aren't going anywhere, there is no resolution coming, it's just a long neverending fantasy soap opera. Not to mention, it's just not that well written. I do think the game of thrones is written better than the wheel of time, and I enjoyed the first three books, for what they were. But I can see no reason for book 4 , other than to make the series longer so the author can make more money. Or maybe he doesn't know how to end it, so he just extends it. or what ever. But if that's the direction the books are taking, I'll pass. Book 4 is just too big affront on story telling, and my patience as a reader.

[Moneyball16 0]

I'm really liking the show so far and have followed along pretty well from help from hbo and the 2+2 spoiler free thread. I'm not reading all the posts here because too many seem borderline spoilers with book stuff. Ill probably pick up the first book for my next read.Also wondering when Carcetti will show up. Don't answer this if you've read the books I don't want spoilers.

[SBriand 4]

If Dance of Dragons (book 5) gets released in July, it will be longer than Storm of Swords was, which is the longest book in the series. About 2/3 of the book is catching up on all the characters that weren't in book 4, and the last third is"new" stuff as far as timeline goes, including an Arya chapter and some other viewpoints that were only in Crows. He's also pulled a handful of chapters that will be present in book 6, if we ever get there.Crows isn't as good a book for a couple reasons. The expanded characters kind of suck because it makes the series seem too big, but he also kind of ruined the best character of Dorne. I don't know how anyone would have been opposed to a Red Viper POV, but making his old home a setting after the Gregor disaster just really sucks, when he was clearly such a fucking badass, and his brother seems to have quite the large, patient vagina. I like the overall idea of Dorne, but the characters he has in it are overall too bland. One of the Dragons POV's is the Martell son who has been "abroad," so that should be interesting, but wasting the Red Viper the way he did is maddening.

Haha, patient vagina. That is actually a very good description. I agree though in that respect, but Jamie saved book 4 for me.

Of the Stark kids Rickon is the one that's being ignored, but that's pretty much to be expected.

I remember reading book 4 and he was mentioned and I was like, oh yeah, Rickon is a character.

[SBriand 4]

I'm really liking the show so far and have followed along pretty well from help from hbo and the 2+2 spoiler free thread. I'm not reading all the posts here because too many seem borderline spoilers with book stuff. Ill probably pick up the first book for my next read.Also wondering when Carcetti will show up. Don't answer this if you've read the books I don't want spoilers.

I suspect Carcetti will show up in the next episode. His character is Littlefinger. Without seeing him yet I suspect he was a good choice to play him.

[Mercury69 3]

Aidan Gillen (Carcetti), eh? Enjoyed him in The Wire...

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

i thought carcetti was one of the worst actors the wire ever used. not counting the people on the show from baltimore who arent actors.

[Gallo 1]

lol at people getting mad at people who haven't read the book and give opinions about the show. A lot of people sometimes don't have the time to read the books. Do people read the book before every movie/tv show they watch?

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

lol at people getting mad at people who haven't read the book and give opinions about the show.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Gallo 1]

So people that haven't read any of the books shouldn't have an opinion on the series? Oh, ok.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

So people that haven't read any of the books shouldn't have an opinion on the series? Oh, ok.

Also not what I was saying.

It's official. @HBO has renewed Game of Thrones for a second season. #gameofthrones

Now they don't have to rush plots and leave gaping holes in the narrative.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You see, Mercury's statement is silly and uninformed (i.e. he doesn't know what he's talking about) because the first season is already done. Then things just sort of escalated as they often do. But it has nothing to do with having an opinion on the show without reading the books.

[Gallo 1]

Pretty sure he’s referring to people in real life. Friends. You know....people he likes.He wasn’t being a douche to you. Everything he said to you, was exactly what went through my mind when I read your comments about the show. (i.e. you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about). He was just speaking the truth. It’s annoying for those that have read the books, to read your (asinine) sweeping proclamations about the story, when you haven’t actually READ THE BOOKS. Go ahead and read them, and then contribute something of substance.

Also not what I was saying.You see, Mercury's statement is silly and uninformed (i.e. he doesn't know what he's talking about) because the first season is already done. Then things just sort of escalated as they often do. But it has nothing to do with having an opinion on the show without reading the books.

Oh. I just don't think Mercury was really making a sweeping proclamation. IDK.ETA: And yes, I do understand that the first season was done, whether or not it got picked up. So if he was referring to the first season, then, um yeah Mercury is on his own.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Oh.

Hmm, touche. In my defense, you quoted a girl. I mean, come on.

[king_tanner 84]

So people that haven't read any of the books shouldn't have an opinion on the series? Oh, ok.

Simple explanation.If someone else criticizes the show without reading the books it is fine, but Mercury isn't allowed to just because everyone hates Mercury.I for one want to have gay violent Dothraki sex with Mercury.

[SBriand 4]

I understand why Thera went off. I might not agree with the intensity but his point was correct. Allie came late to the party and just piled on. The argument earlier had nothing to do with reading the books vs not reading the books and having an opinion. Probably just menstruation or not enough chocolate that day.Oh man, this might hurt a bit.

[Mercury69 3]

I think concerns about books moving to television are justified. My comment was for the overall narrative which already spans four or five books (?) with a sixth coming this summer (?). As for people not liking me, that's fine, I honestly don't get some of the hate just because I have an opinion, informed or not. At least I stand up and admit when I make a mistake and most, if not all of my opinions, are variable in that I learn from discussions and new information. Nobody around here has a perfect opinion, yet many seem to think they cannot be quibbled with.So, Allie and Theraflu can continue to **** themselves over their inability to understand that what they read isn't necessarily what they mean. All that says to me is that they aren't as smart as they think they are and they have a huge gaping ******* for a brain at times.And Dothraki sex with any of you is out of the question until I get some respect around here. Which is likely never...so, too bad for Tanner et al