Bad Bluff, Or Was It?

[CorvairShaggy 5]

O.K. Moved up to 40-100bb .25nl . I think I may have slipped back into my old horrible shove-bluff days. I know about the min-raise PF, but I am trying to incorporate it as a pot inflator. If I sit at one table for too long 3x-3.5x the BB, then I get no action. $5.50 too small? Shoulda been more like $6.50-$8.50?? I feel like villain had to pick up some kind of tell on me to make this call, and he snap-called it at that. Bash away... because I am going to go throw up right now, and not sleep tonight thinking about how bad this was. I was doing so good to at 20-55 BB .25 too Your converted hand, now with more cowbell.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 7 playersUTG: $24.55 UTG+1: $28.40 HJ: $28.01 (Hero)CO: $18.07 Button: $29.76 SB: $27.35 BB: $25.00 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is HJ with (7 players)2 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, CO folds, Button calls $0.50, SB raises to $2, BB folds, Hero raises to $5.50, Button calls $5, SB foldsFlop: ($13.25) (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $10.50, Hero raises to $22.51 and is all-in, Button calls $12.01Turn: ($58.27) (2 players)River: ($58.27) (2 players)Hero showed , and lost with a pair of JacksButton showed , and won ($56.27) with a pair of QueensButton won $56.27(Rake: $2)

[KingJames 11]

4 bet sizing is fine imo. We're in position and it's definitely for valueBluff shoving is bad, but you know that.If we think he has air, check/calling is what you should do. When you shove you get him to fold hands you beat and call the hands which crush you, or flop (ie. Ah has 12 outs vs you)so yeah, preflop is good, c/f flop ez game

[CorvairShaggy 5]

The more I thought about it last night, I think the problem was I was small-ball barrelling too much, and got caught a few times. He must have been paying attention to that. I kept getting good starting hands, but kept bricking flops. I guess this was more a lesson in table discipline more than anything else.I just don't see how you snap-call that board with just Q 10 w/ no hearts. I would have thought he would have put me on a high pair, and at least thought about it first.

[Ninja Ace 1]

I just don't see how you snap-call that board with just Q 10 w/ no hearts.

I just don't see how you don't snap call with any piece of the board after over half your stack is in the pot...I'd probably lead the flop for $7 and fold to further actionoh, and again, don't fucking minraise open

so yeah, preflop is good

Did you miss the minraise open???

[CorvairShaggy 5]

I just don't see how you don't snap call with any piece of the board after over half your stack is in the pot...

Point taken. Overlooked that. I just played dumb. That's all I can say.

oh, and again, don't ****ing minraise open

O.k. So help me find an alternative. This is what I am running accross: At .25nl 20-50 BB, I always come in for the max. After about 30 mins into the session, I get up to about $25-$30, which most people that play these stakes generally start at $5. On a JJ hand or any other good starting hand, I generally raise to .65 to .85 depending on the position I am in and limpers. Problem is when I get up to $25 or so, I cannot get any action with raising to 3x BB or someone will have a good hand as well, and it turns into a flip/race situation. I will sometimes play and raise 7 2, or another trash hand, and fold a pot to a short stack guy, and try to stack him back later. My VPis usually about 35 with PR of about 30, and an Af of 50 ish. (I am at work, so I do not have exacts in front of me). So, what I have found is if you min-raise open, you can pickup some action again. Something about that extra .15 that scares them. So, what should I do when I find myself in these situations?? I hate to leave the table, because I have a good feel for the way they play, plus I am way deep so I can be a bully and push people aound

[Ninja Ace 1]

open to 4bb's + 1 for every limperstart there

[CorvairShaggy 5]

open to 4bb's + 1 for every limperstart there

But if you are not getting any action at 3bb, why go up? Should I just stick to my game plan and keep punishing them at what has been working, picking up the blinds and hope for new guys to rotate in? Tried that before and end up running everyone off the table.I can send you some sessions for review on RePlayer if you have the time/want to waste the time to look at them and see how I usually play. I mostly post bonehead learning plays here.

[Ninja Ace 1]

But if you are not getting any action at 3bb, why go up? Should I just stick to my game plan and keep punishing them at what has been working, picking up the blinds and hope for new guys to rotate in? Tried that before and end up running everyone off the table.

I assure you at 25NL they see no difference between 2.5bb and 4bb... you will get action from the same range

[CorvairShaggy 5]

I assure you at 25NL they see no difference between 2.5bb and 4bb... you will get action from the same range

Very true. Until you get into 3-betting or 5x+BB it is about the same, and the callers you are getting are more premium hands. They pay more attention to what it costs them, not relation to BB. I guess "mixing it up" to lower open size, is letting in those weaker hands back in that have a better chance of catching crap and outdrawing you. I think I am getting the picture now. Basically stick to what works, punish small stacks, or go start over at another table if table gets to slow.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I assure you at 25NL they see no difference between 2.5bb and 4bb... you will get action from the same range

pot control when we're weak and pot pumping when we're strong will increase our win rate

[KingJames 11]

Did you miss the minraise open???

Yup

[rrumsey 0]

if we were deeper we may be able to do this, but we dont deny odds to good naked high card flush draws, a little more than 2;1, which is behind, but i mean that means anything really has odds to catch us.